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Questions about building a 48 volt system

FlyinBrian72

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Joined
Feb 28, 2023
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5
Location
Chehalis wa
I've been searching quite a bit, but not finding exactly what I'm looking for.
I'm thinking of using 4 12 volt lithium 100ah batteries. Maybe litime or ecoworthy. These things are running about 300 a piece rite now. Charge controller, inverter, enuff panels to recharge. Maybe even some wind power. And I need to be able to charge from a gas generator during the cloudy winter months.
This is all for a tiny home project. If anyone has some expert advice for me or a link to a good video it would be much appreciated
 
Stay away from Chinese companies.

Also, and you'll have to check on this on your own, but a lot of these 12 volt lithium batteries have built in BMS's.. Putting four of them in series to make a 48 volt system might not work properly.

Probably better to use a single 48 volt battery.

There are no small residential wind turbines on the market that are worth their own cost, let alone the tower and other associated hardware. The smallest turbine you can purchase, that is NOT a piece of junk, is about 2kW (or maybe it was 5kW), and they run about $25,000.

As for charging with a generator, there are a couple options. Some folks are finding that even if their "Chinese" inverter is capable of using an AC input to charge batteries, the AC input has to be clean.. meaning you are limited to an inverter style generator.. which are a lot more expensive than standard units.

One piece of advice on the battery.. make it about 4 times bigger than what you think you might need.
 
Thanks for the quick reply Murphy. I looked into the 48 volt batteries, but for 1500 bucks I'm only getting 100 ah. It just seems like the 4 100ah batteries in series for 1200 would be money well spent.
According to ecoworthy website the batteries can safely be set up in series. I really want to find someone who has done this. I don't wanna find out the hard way that it's not rite.
 
Thanks for the quick reply Murphy. I looked into the 48 volt batteries, but for 1500 bucks I'm only getting 100 ah. It just seems like the 4 100ah batteries in series for 1200 would be money well spent.
According to ecoworthy website the batteries can safely be set up in series. I really want to find someone who has done this. I don't wanna find out the hard way that it's not rite.
So lets do some math..

The ecoworthy battery is $310 x 4 = $1240 You get a 1 year warranty. You have 4 individual batteries and 4 BMS's. If any of them fail, your entire battery stops working. On the plus side, if one battery fails, you could hook up the other three to a 12 volt inverter and keep going.

Looking at an EG4 battery, their 48volt 100aH unit is $1450 ($210 more). And for that, you get a 5 year warranty (that says a lot), and a single point of failure with a single BMS. You also get communications ports and can hook up a PC to inspect the battery. There's a whole bunch of significant advantages to this feature.

Both batteries have about the same energy, same charge/discharge profiles, etc. The EG4 can be expanded if you want to add modules later..

Personal Observations:
I think the EG4 is the way to go. They seem to have a better reputation and more information on their website about what you're getting. It's also a single unit so you're not stringing batteries together and dealing with all the connection points. And the icing on the cake is the communication capabilities.. that's a huge advantage.

I've been in this for quite a while and I'd go with the EG4 cells if I was going to purchase a ready-made unit.

I have no affiliation with either.
 
I think I should add that I don't actually have a lot of experience with pre-made lithium batteries. I built my own system.

I strongly suggest you do more homework to ascertain the differences in quality, customer service, reliability, etc.
 
I think I should add that I don't actually have a lot of experience with pre-made lithium batteries. I built my own system.

I strongly suggest you do more homework to ascertain the differences in quality, customer service, reliability, etc.
Let's say I do roll with the eg4 , the 5120 watts is probably just what I need. Should I be concerned with it only having 100ah? The extra 200 bucks is not a big deal on the eg4 and it advertises 7000 cycles so probably money well spent

Also, any thoughts on an inverter or charge controller? I don't want junk, but also don't want to break the bank
 
Let's say I do roll with the eg4 , the 5120 watts is probably just what I need. Should I be concerned with it only having 100ah? The extra 200 bucks is not a big deal on the eg4 and it advertises 7000 cycles so probably money well spent

Also, any thoughts on an inverter or charge controller? I don't want junk, but also don't want to break the bank

Battery capacity is a function of volts x amp-hours. So every 48 volt lithium ion battery with a 100aH capacity is going to have the same amount of energy stored inside. The 4 ecoworthy batteries are each 12 volts so 12x4 = 48, and since they are 100aH for each cell, those 4 cells combined have the same amount of stored energy as the EG4 unit. There is no advantage to either in that regard.

The most robust and reliable inverter on the market are the SMA Sunny Islands (what I have). There isn't even a close second place and I'm not saying that just because I own one. Few would argue the point, but they are stupidly expensive. If the safety and comfort of your family is on the top of your priority list, the SMA is what you want. However, for most, cost is also on the table so not always practical.

In second place are several brands... Outback inverters would be my next choice, and I actually own a Radian 8048 as well as the Sunny Islands.

Beyond the Radians, the other Outback inverters are also very high quality products, but don't discount the Schneider brand or Victron Energy..

Coming in a very close 3rd place, I would say the Sol-Ark brand or the Growatt is starting to gain a reputation. MorningStar also makes very good products, but unfortunately I can not provide any observations on their larger inverter products. What I can say is that their classic charge controllers are very high quality units.

What's the biggest difference in these inverters? High frequency vs Low frequency architecture. High frequency inverters (growatt, Sol-Ark, and most others) are cheap to manufacture, light weight, and full of all kinds of rather (personal opinion) unimportant features. Don't get the wrong idea, there's nothing wrong with a high frequency inverter and most of them will work fine and serve you well. The problem with them, is that they can not handle large inrush currents that accompany big motors like air compressors, air conditioners, etc.

Low frequency inverters (SMA Sunny Island, Outback, etc) are low frequency inverters. They have big honking iron core transformers in them and they can start up a big motor load without hardly breaking a sweat. They physically weigh much more than a high frequency unit. They won't do any better job running your television or other common "resistive loads", but if you have a large "inductive load", like a big motor, then the low frequency is the way to go.

If you're a middle of the road kind of person, I think i would suggest a Victron Energy unit.. but don't take that as some set in stone gospel.. The real advice is just to stay away from anything that's is a Chinese owned brand. Some folks go the cheap route, but after all the stuff I read, its not for me.
 
I've been searching quite a bit, but not finding exactly what I'm looking for.
I'm thinking of using 4 12 volt lithium 100ah batteries. Maybe litime or ecoworthy. These things are running about 300 a piece rite now. Charge controller, inverter, enuff panels to recharge. Maybe even some wind power. And I need to be able to charge from a gas generator during the cloudy winter months.
This is all for a tiny home project. If anyone has some expert advice for me or a link to a good video it would be much appreciated
What's your budget?
 
I would definitely keep looking into LiTime (formerly AmpereTime) as a possible battery source. Even though it's a "chinese" company, it has delivery/support/etc. here in the US. I run on these exclusively, and can confirm speedy delivery (in just a few days), great support/service. This is the global economy, made anywhere, but delivered/supported in the US ... LiTime does this very well.

The website will tell you how many batteries can be configured together, but to me, the key aspect is whether or not the BMS supports high-amp draw, and LiTime usually can get you to 200-amp or more draw (supports your large devices like microwave & such).

For the TH, and after your audit to determine power requirements, I would invest in an AIO inverter & battery-bank and a quality inverter-gen of the right fuel source for your location. If your site supports propane (a site tank), that is best of all. Propane, of course, is useful for other aspects of TH (cooking, heat, etc.), and is the fuel of choice for off-grid. Right-sized battery-bank means gen doesn't run very often, but is always there for replenish and/or large loads.

Then, add solar panels to the mix, when ready.

Not knowing anything about your TH or site characteristics, I would absolutely get the design out of the way, as any planning effort here pays off tremendously in the long run.

Hope this helps ...
 
Victron, Midnight, Outback, Schneider, SMA.. There are actually quite a few.. and they are more expensive for a good reason.

There is a difference between a Chinese product and a product made in China.. You want to stay away from Chinese products.. Chinese companies.. Made in China isn't a problem if its not a Chinese owned product.
 
You didn't tell us what your power needs are. A power audit would help. If you only need around 4000 watts I would still consider the Outback Radian 4048. I would add the Samlex EVO 4248sp to the mix. Above 4200 watts and the Samlex drops out of the running as the 4248sp is the biggest they make and they haven't provided the software update to put two together.
 
I have been using 4x 12v 200ah amperetime (Li time) connected in series to a 48v growatt lvm3000es for over two years now, I live on this system 24/7 and all have been rock solid and issue free, and the support at amperetime has always been quick to answer my questions, all chinese stuff isn't junk. Growatt and Li time are good I give them two thumbs up as far as the cheap gear goes.

Having said that, if I could do it over again, I wish I would have spent the extra money for for 48v eg4 rack batteries and a victron multiplus 2 because the idle consumption of the growatt is high and in winter it's been hard just to feed that idle draw, and adding more new batteries to a used battery bank is easier with the rack setup.

I ended up with the cheap stuff because at the time it was close to $2000 cheaper, not just because the rack batteries used to cost more but also because shipping the rack batteries cost a decent chunk of change too but shipping on the amperetime batteries was free.
 
I have been using 4x 12v 200ah amperetime (Li time) connected in series to a 48v growatt lvm3000es for over two years now, I live on this system 24/7 and all have been rock solid and issue free, and the support at amperetime has always been quick to answer my questions, all chinese stuff isn't junk. Growatt and Li time are good I give them two thumbs up as far as the cheap gear goes.

Having said that, if I could do it over again, I wish I would have spent the extra money for for 48v eg4 rack batteries and a victron multiplus 2 because the idle consumption of the growatt is high and in winter it's been hard just to feed that idle draw, and adding more new batteries to a used battery bank is easier with the rack setup.

I ended up with the cheap stuff because at the time it was close to $2000 cheaper, not just because the rack batteries used to cost more but also because shipping the rack batteries cost a decent chunk of change too but shipping on the amperetime batteries was free.
Great post!
I like your reasoning and thought process.
I too went through a 24v China system in 2016, upgraded to a Magnum w/SLA, upgraded to single Victron Quatrro w/LifePo, then two Victron Quatrro w/LifePo (633Ah).
Took time to learn and to be able to afford.
Now I just have to solve the production deficiency...6 more used PVs and that should be solved.
Keep the faith...sounds as if you are on the right track.
 
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