diy solar

diy solar

Replacing a built-in Onan generator in a Class-A

BitWizard

New Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
7
I now have a gaping hole in my 18-year-old, 31' Airstream Land Yacht where a 280-pound, 5500-watt Onan used to be.

To shorten a longer story, mice got into the genset, chewed the windings to eat the insulation, and repairing/replacing the genset with another Onan isn't an option, primarily because Onans don't protect themselves from rodents -- a silly situation for a rig that's supposed to boondock -- and it's crazy expensive. My situation is not unique: my local Onan rep takes in a couple dozen mouse-ruined gensets a year, and because the issue is a "pest" and not a "defect," they aren't covered by warranty.

So I'm thinking of abandoning a strictly mechanical setup and looking at a hybrid solution -- solar, alternator, lithium, shore power, portable generator, dilithium crystals -- because 5500 continuous watts is a lot to replace. And I'm having trouble finding anyone else who has done this. It's hard to believe that people just keep throwing $6K at Onans, and if they want to keep it running, deal with the required monthly maintenance even in the dead of winter. The Onan WAS convenient -- just push a button, turn on the AC, and ignore the angry banging on your door of your forest neighbors because of all the noise.

So here's the deal: Ideally, I think I need access to ~50KWH per day to "work" in my rig in a hot, boondock environment. That's primarily for one or two ACs (25K BTU combined) for much of the day, a microwave, computer/monitor, communications electronics -- I can use propane for just about everything else. I can get by with 25 KWH on a mild day, and as little as 6KWH on a cool day.

Assets:
* A 145-amp alternator apparently designed to charge two 100-amp AGMs
* Up to 30 amps of shore power when connected (enough to run one AC and still charge batteries)
* A small portable generator of some sort for temp use
* LFP battery banks
* solar ( I can probably host 4-6 panels on my roof which can support about 25lbs/sqft)

I currently have room for two big AGMs (already in place) for the coach, another AGM for the chassis, and ~30x20x20 bay that is already wired to the crossover switches and can hold 300 pounds.

Bear in mind that we're in a transition period: batteries and inverters are pretty much impervious to rodents, they're quiet, they don't need to have their carburetors cleaned once a month -- all of these are problems with gas gensets and an alternative is very attractive to RVers. We already have the BIG rigs like the Newmars carrying 16 huge lead batteries (because they can) with no generator, and they power a residential fridge, an induction cooktop, and two or three A/Cs. But what about the rest of us with only 2000 pounds of carrying capacity? We need a solution. These ubiquitous Onan generators are going to go the way of VHS and CDs -- useful only for specialty purposes -- as soon as we have a solution. New rigs are already being designed without them. We need some rules and solutions for the rest of us.

I am ravenously open to your ideas.

Bit
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6035.jpg
    IMG_6035.jpg
    53 KB · Views: 19
  • IMG_6037.jpg
    IMG_6037.jpg
    54.9 KB · Views: 18
For the genset, get on Smokstak forum.
Thanks for the heads-up on Smokstak, Deno. I could still save the "core," but I told Cummins to scrap it, and that will happen tomorrow.

It was more than just the stator windings. If I'd noticed the problem before attempting to start the engine, it might be different. I got it to run for about three seconds before some small parts affecting ignition timing broke (clogged with debris), then found that more debris stored in the remains of the air filter got sucked into the engine. It would be a nightmare taking the whole thing apart, cleaning, replacing gaskets, drilling and tapping rusted bolts, replacing bearings. I was a mechanic a long time ago, and it might be fun to rebuild the Onan if I had the time to do it right -- but I don't.

My initial reaction was to grit my teeth and buy a new genset for $6K installed, but Cummins/Onan's "new model" is a different form factor and won't fit my bay. I would have to downsize to a model that could only run (and start!) a single A/C.

I explored getting a used genset on eBay for about $3K delivered plus install, and that's still an option, but once I understood the extent of the rodent vulnerability, and Onan's impotence in dealing with it even today, I got turned off. I saw a six-month old 4K Onan at their shop that was totally ruined by mice, and that made a big impression on me. When you combine the noise, the touchy maintenance, the rodent headaches (and mice get used to ultrasonic) -- it's too much. If Honda made a drop-in genset for my rig, I'd take a look, but like you say, Onan is in the business of selling gensets, and they seem to have no incentive to fix the mouse problem. The "Big Three" automakers used to make cars that rarely lasted beyond 80,000 miles until the Japanese taught us that this was a built-in "feature" to sell more cars. I suspect a similar thing is going on with Onan.

There are new rigs like the Coachmen Galleria Li3, a Class B+ rig, that are totally lithium. They have big batteries, inverters, and alternators -- solar is optional --and they can run an AC all day on battery alone. I understand that a typical 12V 100-amp LFP can only give me about 1 KWH between charges, but a few of them could at least buffer energy generation from other sources -- solar, electro-mechanical, chemical. So I'm looking for a combined solution -- a hybrid -- for old rigs like mine, and I'm surprised, we don't have one yet.

Bit
 
Thanks for the reply. A hitch cage is an interesting idea, but my max is a measly 300 lbs of tongue weight.

Just found the batteries at Lithionics. Don't know the chemistry, but sounds like LFP. They're used on the Galleria. They've got 600-amp packages with what sounds like sophisticated BMS aboard. Two of those could give me 12KWH, maybe an effective compromise with a kilowatt of solar and an alternator backup--plus the existing lead batteries to keep the lithiums warm -- but they probably cost a fortune. They don't list the price, just a phone number -- if you have to ask for the price, you probably can't afford it . . . .

For grins, ~what can I DIY a 12V 1200-amp or 24V 600-amp LFP for? What's the cost per cell?

Bit
 
Just a thought, you can do a smaller genset with an inverter that does generator support.
 
Hi, HighTech,
I can step down to a new 4KW Onan that will fit in the bay, but it:

1) costs about the same ($6K) because of mods for the different mount;
2) is wired to drive only one leg (one AC), so I still need shore power to drive both ACs; and
3) it's still susceptible to rodents, and that's a killer.

It would be nice if Onan put some kind of protection on their generators. They've had decades to do it -- this is not a new problem -- but they seem to prefer to sell new generators.

It would be nice to have LFP and an inverter with a 4KW genset for high loads -- like the hybrid cars -- but I'm pretty turned off by the mouse problem, the need to run them a half hour once a month under load even in the dead of an Ohio winter to protect the carburetor, and the impoliteness of the noise in multiple situations such as "quiet hours" and nearby 18's at rest stops, etc.

Onan makes a fuel-injected genset (no carb), but only for their 5.5KW which is now too big for me. An LP version also solves the carburetor problem, but it really burns through fuel, and I can only carry ~100 pounds of LP.

I figure there's an answer out there somewhere, but it's not Onan. :-/

Bit
 
I have a 3000w inverter in my 38 ft 5th wheel, and a 3000 watt Honda EU series generator that I keep in the bed of my truck for my setup, so some of your struggles may vary.

Most, if not all loads in an RV are 120v loads, so you can send the same power down both legs off the generator as long as your neutral is properly sized and there are no multiwire branch circuits. You are still limited to the generator's capacity in this configuration though. When I'm on my 120v inverter or 120v Honda generator the transfer switch moves over and the two legs derive from the same single leg. On shore power it gets the two seperate legs.

You can also get some fine bird screen mesh and seal off the generator from rodents and still allow airflow -Let's face it, every generator is susceptible to rodents, step 1 is to keep them out.

1569431993165.png
 
If, you have an onboard inverter/charger that's big enough, and a 48v house battery system, I can envision a charge/inverter that can start the generator when the batteries/solar gets low. Then you could get along with a generator under the 300lb tongue weight.
Hi, Deno, that's the general plan. I just don't know the ideal ratios of power sources and storage for different situations. Everything has plusses and minuses. With Onan gensets, it's mice that can destroy all your hard work. With LFP, it's temperature. It's going to require some kind of hybrid, like LP gas to keep the LFPs warm, solar to pump up the batts on sunny days, a small/quiet genset or fuel cell as first line of defense, and an alternator when all else fails.

Again, I'm surprised I haven't found someone who's worked all this out -- yet.

Bit
 
Hi, HighTech,
It's a good point, i.e. combining the legs, but the issue has never been the running amps, it's the *starting* amps that get you, and in my case, I have two neutrals (#10 and #12) which run in different directions and won't handle 50 amps individually. However, they're a perfect setup for *two* inverters--all the crossovers and switchovers are in place -- if I can find a way to power the inverters -- for a few hours. ;-)

I envy you your Honda EU and having a place to put it. ;-)
 
This guy's projects are straight forward and to the point. Possibly too basic for most.
 
Last edited:
Replace you old one and get a cat. may be your most straight forward approach...farm down the the road here is looking to get rid of a couple...cats that is.
 
Replace you old one and get a cat. may be your most straight forward approach...farm down the the road here is looking to get rid of a couple...cats that is.
Yup, a barn cat would do the job. Bought this rig from a guy who had dogs.
 
I now have a gaping hole in my 18-year-old, 31' Airstream Land Yacht where a 280-pound, 5500-watt Onan used to be.

To shorten a longer story, mice got into the genset, chewed the windings to eat the insulation, and repairing/replacing the genset with another Onan isn't an option, primarily because Onans don't protect themselves from rodents -- a silly situation for a rig that's supposed to boondock -- and it's crazy expensive. My situation is not unique: my local Onan rep takes in a couple dozen mouse-ruined gensets a year, and because the issue is a "pest" and not a "defect," they aren't covered by warranty.

So I'm thinking of abandoning a strictly mechanical setup and looking at a hybrid solution -- solar, alternator, lithium, shore power, portable generator, dilithium crystals -- because 5500 continuous watts is a lot to replace. And I'm having trouble finding anyone else who has done this. It's hard to believe that people just keep throwing $6K at Onans, and if they want to keep it running, deal with the required monthly maintenance even in the dead of winter. The Onan WAS convenient -- just push a button, turn on the AC, and ignore the angry banging on your door of your forest neighbors because of all the noise.

So here's the deal: Ideally, I think I need access to ~50KWH per day to "work" in my rig in a hot, boondock environment. That's primarily for one or two ACs (25K BTU combined) for much of the day, a microwave, computer/monitor, communications electronics -- I can use propane for just about everything else. I can get by with 25 KWH on a mild day, and as little as 6KWH on a cool day.

Assets:
* A 145-amp alternator apparently designed to charge two 100-amp AGMs
* Up to 30 amps of shore power when connected (enough to run one AC and still charge batteries)
* A small portable generator of some sort for temp use
* LFP battery banks
* solar ( I can probably host 4-6 panels on my roof which can support about 25lbs/sqft)

I currently have room for two big AGMs (already in place) for the coach, another AGM for the chassis, and ~30x20x20 bay that is already wired to the crossover switches and can hold 300 pounds.

Bear in mind that we're in a transition period: batteries and inverters are pretty much impervious to rodents, they're quiet, they don't need to have their carburetors cleaned once a month -- all of these are problems with gas gensets and an alternative is very attractive to RVers. We already have the BIG rigs like the Newmars carrying 16 huge lead batteries (because they can) with no generator, and they power a residential fridge, an induction cooktop, and two or three A/Cs. But what about the rest of us with only 2000 pounds of carrying capacity? We need a solution. These ubiquitous Onan generators are going to go the way of VHS and CDs -- useful only for specialty purposes -- as soon as we have a solution. New rigs are already being designed without them. We need some rules and solutions for the rest of us.

I am ravenously open to your ideas.

Bit
What part of the country are you in?
I repair some stuff... I can’t imagine something on an Onan that wouldn’t be repairable. But, I’m not sure what got torn up.
 
I now have a gaping hole in my 18-year-old, 31' Airstream Land Yacht where a 280-pound, 5500-watt Onan used to be.

To shorten a longer story, mice got into the genset, chewed the windings to eat the insulation, and repairing/replacing the genset with another Onan isn't an option, primarily because Onans don't protect themselves from rodents -- a silly situation for a rig that's supposed to boondock -- and it's crazy expensive. My situation is not unique: my local Onan rep takes in a couple dozen mouse-ruined gensets a year, and because the issue is a "pest" and not a "defect," they aren't covered by warranty.

So I'm thinking of abandoning a strictly mechanical setup and looking at a hybrid solution -- solar, alternator, lithium, shore power, portable generator, dilithium crystals -- because 5500 continuous watts is a lot to replace. And I'm having trouble finding anyone else who has done this. It's hard to believe that people just keep throwing $6K at Onans, and if they want to keep it running, deal with the required monthly maintenance even in the dead of winter. The Onan WAS convenient -- just push a button, turn on the AC, and ignore the angry banging on your door of your forest neighbors because of all the noise.

So here's the deal: Ideally, I think I need access to ~50KWH per day to "work" in my rig in a hot, boondock environment. That's primarily for one or two ACs (25K BTU combined) for much of the day, a microwave, computer/monitor, communications electronics -- I can use propane for just about everything else. I can get by with 25 KWH on a mild day, and as little as 6KWH on a cool day.

Assets:
* A 145-amp alternator apparently designed to charge two 100-amp AGMs
* Up to 30 amps of shore power when connected (enough to run one AC and still charge batteries)
* A small portable generator of some sort for temp use
* LFP battery banks
* solar ( I can probably host 4-6 panels on my roof which can support about 25lbs/sqft)

I currently have room for two big AGMs (already in place) for the coach, another AGM for the chassis, and ~30x20x20 bay that is already wired to the crossover switches and can hold 300 pounds.

Bear in mind that we're in a transition period: batteries and inverters are pretty much impervious to rodents, they're quiet, they don't need to have their carburetors cleaned once a month -- all of these are problems with gas gensets and an alternative is very attractive to RVers. We already have the BIG rigs like the Newmars carrying 16 huge lead batteries (because they can) with no generator, and they power a residential fridge, an induction cooktop, and two or three A/Cs. But what about the rest of us with only 2000 pounds of carrying capacity? We need a solution. These ubiquitous Onan generators are going to go the way of VHS and CDs -- useful only for specialty purposes -- as soon as we have a solution. New rigs are already being designed without them. We need some rules and solutions for the rest of us.

I am ravenously open to your ideas.

Bit
You ever seen this? I was looking the other day for something to replace the Onan in our RV with and came across this - sounds neat - and expensive. https://www.wattfuelcell.com/portable-power/watt-imperium/
 
I know I'm bumping a zombie thread here, totally stereotypical of a first time poster and all.

I'm in a similar situation, having just bought a class a diesel pusher with a non-op onan 6500 lpg genset. it has two roof A/C's.

since the four coach batteries are fairly new and the coach system is 12v I plan to leave it alone. everything in my coach is ran by it except a/c, micro, fridge and washer/dryer.

Currently I'm planning to rip the onan out and replace it with a LARGE bank of lifepo4's and a MPP unit. looking for a pallet of cells and going from there.

OP could probably run both A/C's on 2x 2000w inverter generators in parallel, or the HF 3500w. possibly needing delays/soft starts on the a/c compressors. much cheaper than a onan, and usable on more than just the RV.
 
Where do you live? I’d like to look over the onan...

Those rooftop Ac’s are hard starters for sure. Not sure I’d use an mpp, on them though. 2K models not enough even in parallel, 5K either... maybe with a soft start. I’d think a Sigineer 6KW... LF would do it, maybe less...
 
supervstech: I'm in north AL, no plans to be around Charlotte area anytime soon -- but given your description (hvac, computer, diesel) I may have to make plans.

I have zero diesel experience, and now I have a massive cummins under my bed. I did pc repair for many years, now just for hobby (32tb nas, enterprise network gear, blah blah). now I do facilities/laundry maintenance for a mid sized resort style hotel.

I'm likely to have some grid-power at some sites, so I want the option to use grid-power first (ideally being able to set the amperage) then make up deficits with inversion, I'd also like the opposite-- making up with grid last. and ofcourse there will be no-grid while wallycamping and boondocking.

I haven't spent any time trying to diagnose the onan. it turns over great and I did spray into the intake but it didn't fire, that's as far as I have went. I have downloaded the manual and a diag guide published by a parts supplier (flight systems) but haven't jumped into it yet.
 
AL isn’t too far... let me know!

How old is it? If too modern, it could be inductor/module issues... I like the old ones... pre-80... but modern ones aren’t too difficult to fix if ya can source the parts.
 
Im sure you guys can get a champion inverter generator with remote start to put in the bay. Worst case the open frame version. You can cut hole in the gas capband run fuel line inside tank then use the fuel pump wired to a switch to fill the gas tank. Or put genset on a hitch tray.

Also getting an easy start allows you to run an AC on a much smaller generator.




If youre full time its cheaper to drive to 9000ft elevation IMO.
 
Back
Top