ShunBin Battery Packs: 12V/24V 100AH and up ! A Complete RIP-OFF ! AVOID

[SolarRat]

...See the scratching off of the details..... What are they hiding ?...

The cell manufacturers scratch the rejects before throwing them in the scrap bin so that they can never be sold as new or warranted from the manufacturer. Sorry man that sucks. Hopefully they will still work for you.

 

[TheDude130]

Finished recharging my 12V 500AH. From 12.1V resting the battery took 460AH until kicking over to float. Resting voltage 13.8. I did not charge it with high current. This thing probably has around 90% or so of stated capacity. Obviously I don't have fake 200AH (174AH) cells since it's a 500AH capacity. Maybe I have fake 250 if that's a thing? I'm not willing to dissect it to find out. Even if it only tested at 400AH, it was half the price of that capacity in Battleborns and takes up a lot less space. I still feel like it was worthwhile. A little worried about if the cells were used though. Is everyone planning to ask for a partial refund based on the false advertising on capacity?

 

[Steve_S]

Thanks for the input @TheDude130
The company aoyoupower has 240 / 300 AH LifePo Cells (LFP Model 2 & 3 in their tables) but it doesn't mean that's what they used.... "Mystery Cells" unless you pop the top off and carefully take it apart to see what laser etched markings are on the cells. Hopefully they will respond "intelligently" to the Review but they could just go Hostile as well... We shall see.... Sheister's & Con Artists tend to get angry when caught red handed....

Who is planning what, asking for refunds or whatever, I don't know... I suppose anything is possible. I'm dying of curiosity what their response will be, if any at all. Are the cells Fake, B or C Grade off casts, Recycled Cells ? I'm not sure if that could be determined without a full on disassembly and I won't be doing that.

102 Posts, over 3,000 views. Safe to say, that this thread has been found & noticed on the Greater Web.

 

[Bob B]

Sorry to say .... but Solar rat may have been correct .... it may all be in their chosen name. Shun Bin (Avoid Reject).

It seems they are gathering reject cells from several manufactuers .... and then combining them together to make a battery. It is possible they are doing the labor to test the cells, but then they are mis-advertising the capacity.

I was interested in these ... and REALLY appreciate the tesing and inspection you guys have done to expose whats in the pretty case.

 

[Steve_S]

I personally cannot verify more on the cells or the electronics as such and unless I take the whole pack apart and separate the cells, there is no more into be gained. Now the current "assumption" is these are B or C grade cells, possibly even recycled (not that likely I would think) and concluding they are from that assumption is reasonable, why else would the cell markings be scratched off. I concur with Delta-V that the cells look tested and dated (the marker writing on ea cell). My pack arrived with 26.9V after I let it warm in the house for 24 hours (it arrived when it was nasty out).

Indeed BUYER BEWARE !

Now I'm looking for a BMS , considering Daly 8S but they don't have one that is pc-monitorable like the TinyBMS, I like the Tiny specs but not the price so much, but you do get what you pay for right.... Suggestions for Known Good, I need 24V/100-150A preferably with USB/RS* or some method to interact with it. Also need a battery / cell monitor (would be great to talk to that too) for this LFP pack. Something like this.

Yeeco Digital Wireless Voltmeter Ammeter Multimeter DC 80V 200A 2.4" LCD Voltage Ampere Power Watt Coulomb Capacity Time Meter Temperature Tester Detector with Hall Sensor & Temp Sensor : Amazon.ca: Automotive

Yeeco Digital Wireless Voltmeter Ammeter Multimeter DC 80V 200A 2.4" LCD Voltage Ampere Power Watt Coulomb Capacity Time Meter Temperature Tester Detector with Hall Sensor & Temp Sensor : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

Hmmm the BMS & Monitors should be a separate thread, I guess to keep this thread clear of side trips.
Thread related to the Smart-BMS here: https://www.diysolarforum.com/threads/need-smart-bms-as-replacement-for-shunbin-pack.2046/

 

[Steve_S]

I posted an Amazon.CA REVIEW on my pack, including photo's from above.
What will happen next ? We shall see !



EDIT, Adding one photo here that I put on Amazon, showing the cell layout and identifying the different types.
View attachment 2709

Well it seems the Review was Accepted & Posted !
LINK to Review:

Amazon.ca:Customer reviews: Lifepo4 100ah 200ah 300ah 400ah 24V Lithium ion Battery for Solar System/Motor Home/Boat/Golf Carts car Battery (24V 400ah ×1pcs)

Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Lifepo4 100ah 200ah 300ah 400ah 24V Lithium ion Battery for Solar System/Motor Home/Boat/Golf Carts car Battery (24V 400ah ×1pcs) at Amazon.com. Read honest and unbiased product reviews from our users.

www.amazon.ca

Interesting, I wonder if anyone will notice it.... It's on Amazon.CA though.
Replacement BMS Hunting is ongoing, now leaning deeply towards a Chargery BMS8T http://chargery.com/BMS8T.asp which can be communicated with by a PC (waiting for more details on that though).

 

[pjbiker]

A word of advise in regards to those chargers. Those are not chargers, they are power supplies

I would be very careful with those "chargers" as they seem to be plain constant current power supplies designed for LED lights. While this is OK to bulk charge the battery, they must be disconnected at the end of charge to avoid holding the battery at the charge voltage for too long as it shortens the calendar life of the battery ( essentially slowly overcharging it ). This is why good chargers must have either a float stage or a shut off at the end of charge.

Here is a spec sheet on the Meanwell " Switching Power Supply S-350 series " http://www.mean-well.ru/uploads/files/datasheets/S-350-15.pdf

 

[Steve_S]

Replacement BMS has been selected. The Chargery BMS8T win's for several reasons, including the use of external relays to control charging inbound to pack as well as low charge shutoff. The ability to manage and monitor the pack & cells, as well as accessibility to Personal Computer via the RS232 port.
1x BMS8T / 300A,
2x 12v/200A Relays,
1x Relay Delay Board.
All In with shipping $168 USD (aliexpress price, includes free shipping) (Dec.01.2019 pricing)
Ref: http://chargery.com/BMS8T.asp

7.67US $ 4% OFF|Chargery Bms8t 4.0 2s - 8s Lipo Lifepo4 Lto Li-ion Battery Protection Board 100a 300a 600a Lithium Bms 3s 4s 7s 12v 24v Balance - Battery Accessories & Charger Accessories - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Balance 1.2A Chargery BMS8T 4.0 2S - 8S LiPo lifepo4 LTO Li-ion Battery BMS 4S | eBay

BMS8T 4.0 version newest. Add RS232 port, external device can read out all data from BMS8T. detection circuit. It can drive larger current. Over temperature protection make sure the system safety. If it is not.

www.ebay.com

They also have a Proper Charger which directly interfaces with the BMS for battery charging but I won't be using such, as my Solar Controller & Inverter/Charger can be programmed to work with LFP. Also the Samlex Inverter is able to accept charge shutoff signals sent by the BMS through one it's interface ports, which also simplifies things.

Once the Chargery Gear is received and I am installing it, I'll photograph and post the experience for others to see. I will be continuing to use the ShunBin Stainless Steel Case which will have to have some minor modifications to accommodate how I want things setup (that should be fun). I think it's best if I post that information in this thread to keep it separate from this one: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/need-smart-bms-as-replacement-for-shunbin-pack.2046/

 

[Delta-V]

Thanks for the updates, Steve_S. It's a bummer the deal wasn't as good as hoped.

After re-checking the cells in my battery box, it looks like I have 1 oddball cell. 15 are labeled the same 3.2V 174AH. The 8389 cell is slightly different. It's yellow shrink-wrapped where the others are black shrink-wrapped. None are scratched out.


Battery is still working as expected otherwise. Cells are staying balanced.

I think I'll completely remove the cells out of the metal box and test the internal resistance on each of the cells, perhaps this weekend. I'll take more pictures and post the results.

 

[Steve_S]

Thanks for the updates, Steve_S. It's a bummer the deal wasn't as good as hoped.

After re-checking the cells in my battery box, it looks like I have 1 oddball cell. 15 are labeled the same 3.2V 174AH. The 8389 cell is slightly different. It's yellow shrink-wrapped where the others are black shrink-wrapped. None are scratched out.


Battery is still working as expected otherwise. Cells are staying balanced.

I think I'll completely remove the cells out of the metal box and test the internal resistance on each of the cells, perhaps this weekend. I'll take more pictures and post the results.

Gee Wiz You got a YELLOW CELL I didn't !
I had wondered about getting the cells out of the case and separated but I wonder IF they glued the bottom. Then I look a that nylon strapping and I know I cannot rebind the cells like that if I take all that apart. Not knowing what I'll find and if I can put it back together just as snug.

PS, If you bought it on Amazon, or Ebay you should do a review similar to the one I posted on Amazon.CA (they keep them separate for some weird reason). My review was accepted and I got no comment from ShunBin or anything... Maybe they'll just change name and relist under some other "label".

 

[Sailor Jerry]

I ordered a 12v 200ah mid November, free shipping to MX. Scheduled to arrive Friday. It got held up in customs here and said I needed to pay duty on it, only $44us which was fine with me but I can't find a way to pay it through UPS and I haven't got a reply to my email, but according to tracking it's back on its way. I planned on testing it for a week or 2 and if happy order a second for a 400ah bank. Unfortunately they no longer offer it for sale to Mexico probably was a big expense and a lot of trouble. I guess if I like it I will message then and try to negotiate another order.

 

[Stiffmeister]

I don't know where you are in MX but I'm in Cabo. Tomorrow I will charge the battery with solar then hook up Klipsch computer speakers. Hopefully the battery monitor I purchased can tell me how many kwh it stores.

 

[Sailor Jerry]

I am anchored in Zihuatanejo. I just received notice that my 200ah pack has arrived. I will get it tomorrow and see how it works.

 

[Delta-V]

Update on my 24V 400Ah (really 348Ah) battery box. I took it completely apart today. More specs:

Each 3.2V 174 Ah cell weighs about 3.62 kg (~8 lbs)
Cell Dimensions: 27cm L x 3cm W x 21.5cm H (10.6" L x 1.2" W x 8.5" H)
Internal resistance: All 16 cells surprisingly showed as 002 milli-ohms (Ir - mΩ)

The odd-ball cell actually has no shrink-wrap on it, just a shiny aluminum case. It looked yellow because it reflected the color of the fiber-glass sheeting in the box. Its specs were stamped on the side of the cell (AYP310270218F36-DS-01 3.20V/174Ah BC14108389) It's the same model number as the other cells, probably from a different year.

I was able to put it all back together without issue. It's currently powering my home office again as I write this. It's still doing well despite the lower-than-expected capacity and not-new cells.

Pics below:

 

[Steve_S]

Update on my 24V 400Ah (really 348Ah) battery box. I took it completely apart today. More specs:

Each 3.2V 174 Ah cell weighs about 3.62 kg (~8 lbs)
Cell Dimensions: 27cm L x 3cm W x 21.5cm H (10.6" L x 1.2" W x 8.5" H)
Internal resistance: All 16 cells surprisingly showed as 002 milli-ohms (Ir - mΩ)

The odd-ball cell actually has no shrink-wrap on it, just a shiny aluminum case. It looked yellow because it reflected the color of the fiber-glass sheeting in the box. Its specs were stamped on the side of the cell (AYP310270218F36-DS-01 3.20V/174Ah BC14108389) It's the same model number as the other cells, probably from a different year.

Thanks Delta-V for the continued exploration & updates. I hafta say, been hesitant to pull everything out of the box, I was certain they glued the puppies in there too seeing how Glue Happy they got with everything else. LOL. Hmmm, I wonder if the gluer is getting high too ? might explain a couple of things. Pleased you got good numbers from the cells, were they also close to balance voltage ? Noticed they used different kinds of screws to attach the busbars on yours as well... mine has brass nuts on threaded brass hex-keyed threaded bolts. Not very consistent is also an indicator of mixed whatever's.

I'm assuming your still using their BMS and haven't replaced it yet, my Chargery BMS8T should be here by end of next week, hoping the connector kit with ratchetting crimper and new copper Battery Bus Bars show up, I decided I did not like the "aluminium stock" bars they used either. Now that I know it can come apart easily, I'll be able to install the two temp sensors from the BMS into the pack. The conundrum is the strapping, I have no way to replicate the strapping and not terribly keen on using metal plumbing pipe strapping and I dunno anywhere I could borrow the tool to do what they did. Can't picture using huge zip ties LOL.... Any thoughts you have on re-strapping would be appreciated. I'm quite anxious to get into the update before testing & installation, hard really hoped to not have to go through all this and have it up & running, not sure if it will be ready to be online by xmas.... fingers crossed all parts come in !
BMS Replacement thread

 

[Steve_S]

The circus continues: I posted a review on Amazon COM so we shall see if that get's posted as well.
The review on Amazon CA is here: https://www.amazon.ca/review/RW3SMOH8WK01X/ref=cm_cr_srp_d_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8
I have filed a complaint with the vendor, shall see what comes of that but there is that A to Z guarantee, so is it worth the pixels used to display it, who knows.

EDIT: JUST GOT 2 REPLIES from ShunBin ! Ohh THEY ARE BEAUTIES TOO !

--- #1 ---
By the way, your test data sheet also shows that the capacity is 180ah, but we have tested that it can reach 200ah fully charged, so the lifepo4 cell mark 174ah is not accurate
--- #2 ---
This is the new original A grade lifepo4 cell, the capacity is actually 200AH, not 174AH, the scratch is just manufacturer to correct the wrong mark，You can test the discharge time

Interesting considering AOYoupower does not make this cell series in 200AH (That's where the PN takes us)
Boy the TAR is still Sticky on those feathers !

 

[Delta-V]

Thanks Delta-V for the continued exploration & updates. I hafta say, been hesitant to pull everything out of the box, I was certain they glued the puppies in there too seeing how Glue Happy they got with everything else. LOL. Hmmm, I wonder if the gluer is getting high too ? might explain a couple of things. Pleased you got good numbers from the cells, were they also close to balance voltage ? Noticed they used different kinds of screws to attach the busbars on yours as well... mine has brass nuts on threaded brass hex-keyed threaded bolts. Not very consistent is also an indicator of mixed whatever's.

I'm assuming your still using their BMS and haven't replaced it yet, my Chargery BMS8T should be here by end of next week, hoping the connector kit with ratchetting crimper and new copper Battery Bus Bars show up, I decided I did not like the "aluminium stock" bars they used either. Now that I know it can come apart easily, I'll be able to install the two temp sensors from the BMS into the pack. The conundrum is the strapping, I have no way to replicate the strapping and not terribly keen on using metal plumbing pipe strapping and I dunno anywhere I could borrow the tool to do what they did. Can't picture using huge zip ties LOL.... Any thoughts you have on re-strapping would be appreciated. I'm quite anxious to get into the update before testing & installation, hard really hoped to not have to go through all this and have it up & running, not sure if it will be ready to be online by xmas.... fingers crossed all parts come in !
BMS Replacement thread

Yes, all the cells are staying balanced, pretty much within .01 volts of each other. Although, if I charge the battery without it being in use (not discharging), a couple of the cells aren't keeping up, the non-shrink-wrapped cell being one of them. Example, all the other cells will be at 3.65V, but the 2 paralleled cells will be 3.48V. But, once I start using the battery (discharging) then all the cells balance with each other. They stay balanced when charging & discharging simultaneously. It's not a big concern as I haven't been regularly charging to 100%, only when I'm home experimenting do I test minimum/ maximums. I may do a bottom-balance at some point that could address this issue.

So far the BMS is sufficient for now. I'll probably look around and get a different BMS as it would be nice to check the cells without having to remove the lid and manually check.

Yeah, I would have preferred copper bus-bars as well. The Aluminum buss-bars I have are about 4mm (~3/16") thick, 30mm wide. For my use, I think they're sufficient as I don't expect to pull a large amount of Watts at once for any length of time. Even at 4,000 Watts ÷ 24V = 167A ÷ 16 Cells = ~10A per cell. With a conservative estimate of 12AWG aluminum wire, Ampacity charts have it listed for up to 20A. I think the buss-bars are beefier than that, though. Although, switching to copper buss-bars could probably make the battery a little more efficient.

Battery strapping - I'm not all that concerned with re-strapping the cells. I put them back in the metal box unstrapped. The box is pretty snug as it is. There was a little effort to fit the cells back in the box unstrapped. The front brackets are holding the cells pretty snug. When I squeezed the last cell in, the grouping was still tight. Also, the buss-bars help with keeping the batteries together and in-line. I don't plan on moving the battery box around much, it'll mostly sit static in-doors once I make a more permanent place for it. I'd probably strap 'em if vibration were a concern, though (ie. mobile configuration).

If I really wanted to re-strap them (quick improvised approach), I'd stack the cells horizontally like a stack of books and use duct-tape. Then set the brick on it's side, slide it back in the box, then tilt the box up-right (the reverse of how I removed them from the box).

 

[Steve_S]

My previous posting was updated. There is now email exchange going on and boy they are spreading the tar mighty thick too.

 

[Sailor Jerry]

I don't know where you are in MX but I'm in Cabo. Tomorrow I will charge the battery

So how did the charging go? What voltage was showing on the battery meter during charging and what did it drop to when the BMS shut off? Charging mine now with the supplied charger, showing 14.5

 

[Stiffmeister]

So how did the charging go? What voltage was showing on the battery meter during charging and what did it drop to when the BMS shut off? Charging mine now with the supplied charger, showing 14.5

I just hooked up a single 300w panel out in the shrubs of my new property. Set the absorb voltage to 14.6 and float to 13.5. The battery itself was reading 13.5 before I hooked it up. Tomorrow morning, I will plug in a second 300w panel. What should my voltage read at close to fully charged? 13.8? I will read up on the Balmar battery monitor, hook up some Klipsch speakers and a sub....crank it up in the desert of Cabo tomorrow. We bought another 800 sq m lot and are scraping it with a backhoe. Will try to read how much kwh until it hits 12.9v