diy solar

diy solar

Solar water heater

2000W / 230V = 8.7A at that voltage 230V / 8.7 = 26.4 ohms as you calculated

array voltage / 26.4 ohms will be the current

desired resistance is

array voltage / mpp panel current = ohms

Now double that resistance
 
I have a 200W 12V heating element (NO, I would never pay for such a thing) that is about .7 ohm. That would consume 17.7A. Using it you could easily lose half the power in the wiring just getting to it. Connect a 200W 12V panel to a 200W12V heating element can only 75W of heat with no losses getting to the element.
 
If the resistance of a circuit is fixed, then you can't run lower voltage and get higher current. If the voltage is reduced then so will be the current.
This is exactly my point.
to have 3x panels in series you will have x amount of voltage, lets say 120 volts @ 10 amps.
putting the 3x panels in series, you would have 1/3 of voltage on hand thats 40 volts dc @ 30 amps.
the element resistance is constant "lets keep it for discussion"
so even if you have the amps, you do not have the voltage to push the amps through the resistance.
i will also argue, that any heating element will only use wht is needed from it.
so at 30 amps, not all amps will go through the resistor, you only get 25 amps to run trough the system at 40 volts dc.

my experience with 12 volt soldering irons shows exactly this.
if volts are higher, amps is also higher with resistors and heat is generated much more quicker.
if a lower voltage battery is fitted with unlimited amps, the element still only heats up to a certain degree and nothing more, even if more amps can be pushed through the system. the element will only use the amps it wants.

this is where ohms law might be confusing.
p=vxi
=40 volts dc x 25 amps, "heating element only using amps it wants to use
= thats a 1000 watts.

but p= vxi
= 40 volts dc x 30 amps avaiable. "heating element being forced to use the amps available
=1200 watts


in any case, i have been doing some testing, but ended up in hospital due to kidney stones.
my array so far was 4x 550 canadian solar panels all in series, which gave about 150 volts average amps was around 10 but could have gone up to 13 amps at times, maximum panel amps.
the array did manage to heat up a bucket of water within a period of time.

so then i fitted a 5th panel in series.
the voltage is now around 210 volts dc.
but my amp meter is not working, so i cannot see the amps running through the 2000 watt heating element.

the water in the jug started heating up faster and the system would also shut down as temp was reached.
so that was cool to see it work lekker.

i then obtained a plastic drum, which can take around 200 galons of water. it has some holes but i did plug some, so water loss is present.
the heating element is running ok. since early morning it will run and slowly build temp up to 62 degrees.
by then, the solar panels do not have direct sun light as the panels are facing east.

this drum does not have any insulation to prevent heat loss. in a geyser it should build up much quicker.
in any case, i am upgrading to 6x solar panels all in series.
this should push the voltage to around 250 volts dc with a maximum amp of 13.
but im running on normal operating test conditions which does make more sense and to use a 10 amp system.

lets see, how it goes.
i might even re fit 3x panels on the west side, and 3x on the east side, so a total of 6x solar panels in series
a note to consider.
voltage will be around 40 volts dc on each panel, multiply that with 6 you will get 240 volts dc, just what you need, but current might be way off if some are facing east and west.
getting the right panel in the sun, with 10 amps current will be enough to heat it all up.

but lets see where the experiment goes. as it has been working quite well.
i will deal with overcast days later.
 
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Our 2006 Sears 80 gallon electric WH is still working fine.
(Made for Sears by AO Smith)
I have replaced an element and thermostat.
It is on a mechanical timer, turns on the WH once a day around 12 noon.
(Graph is from August, so heat pump is cycling 24x7)

waterheaterpower copy.jpg
If the ancient thing gives out before I do, have a new in box Bradford-White 50 gallon.
However, I ordered the BW spare before I understood solar power factors very well.
Ordered it w/ the "simultaneous" option, which powers up both elements.

This means it will use about 9kw, but for a much shorter interval than the hour the old
"non-simultaneous" WH needs to heat 80 gallons.

And - it means I need to run a second 30A 240vac circuit for the BW, as simultaneous operation needs two 30A circuits.

Have considered just skipping the BH as a replacement and buying a Rheem heat pump WH instead.

But as long as the old AO Smith still works, I will continue to do nothing about it.
 
this is where ohms law might be confusing.

You are making the mistake of thinking volts instead of current. The current into the fixed resistance will determine the voltage. Adding an additional panel in series will not necessarily produce more power. Power will be current squared times the resistance.
 
this is where ohms law might be confusing.

You are making the mistake of thinking volts instead of current. The current into the fixed resistance will determine the voltage. Adding an additional panel in series will not necessarily produce more power. Power will be current squared times the resistance.
yes it is confusing to a degree.
volts will assist in getting the amps through the resistance.
increasing the voltage makes things easier, in my understanding.

the amps needs to get through the resistance.
but the voltage does assist in this process.

but hey its a learning curve, a nice experiment.

looking at the solar panel specifications,
voltage is quite constant to a degree even with current going down.
we still just need 8,69 amps current.
so if voltage is 210 dc and we get 10 amp current on 1x solar panel, we still just have 10 amps current.

210volts x 10 amps = 2100 watt

so with a extra panel voltage should increase to around
250 volts x 10 amps average = 2500 watt

if we get
250 volts x 13 amps "maximum" = 3250 watt.

will it burn up? i dont think so. but lets see
 
Here is another aspect im struggling to understand and calculate.
why its not adding up, i do not know.

so to calculate power we use:

p = VI
so P= (volts 240 x current 10 amps)
P = 2400 watt.

then the formula changes to:
heating element of 2000 watt resistance is 26.7 ohm
P= IxI x R
= 10x10x 26.7 ohm
= 100x 26.7
= 2670 watt

or
(lets say 240 volts dc)
P= VxV/R
= 240x240/ R
= 57600/ 26.7 ohm
= 2157 watt.

so my question here is, what am i missing?
why is it not all the same.
how can power calculation be different?
if resistance stays the same, and yet we used the same voltage and same current in calculation?
sorry, i dont know how to type V2 or I2 (squared) and not confuse you. thats why i listed them separately

please educate me here
thanks
 
so my question here is, what am i missing?
You are not dealing with independent variables.

If the resistance is fixed (and with the exception of some variance with temperature it largely is when inside a tank of water), and you apply (and can sustain) a given voltage across the resistor, then current (and power) will be what it is,
i.e.
I = V/R
P = V²/R

So if you have a 26.7 Ω resistor and apply and can sustain 240 V across it, then:
I = 240 V / 26.7 Ω = 8.99 A
P = (240 V)² / 26.7 Ω = 2,157 W

You can't just magic 10 A in the circuit.

To increase the current and/or power you either have to increase the voltage, reduce the resistance, or both.

Note the use of the phrase "and can sustain" with respect to voltage. If a supply cannot sustain the voltage, then you are dealing with different issues.
 
Math doesn't lie.

Why don't you take an array / heater element and calculate the the power going from 10A down every couple amps.

People hook up a couple panels to a charge controller and battery and think it is easy. The way to really understand solar is by heating water.
 
The old black garden hose to get hot water was what I used on my first remote house build to shower off. After the well driller hit water and the electric company had brought in a temp power drop it was no problem to rig up a system. However I quickly learned that just using the water from a black hose in the Summer sun would scald the heck out of you from getting too hot. I ran a second white RV style hose along with the black so I could mix it at my knocked together shower stall. Which was simply a few plywood panels and an open front. The shower head was fastened at the correct height and I stood on a set of planks spaced enough to allow the water through.
 
Hello world, lol.
Had a hick-up with a kidney stone, so was out of action for a while.
but let me give you some more info.

i choose a 2000 watt heating element for a reason.
the panels maximum/ peak current is 13 amps, so working rather on a average instead of peak power.
a 2000 watt heating element current draw is a mere 8,7 amps.

this does leave one soem space to work with, but the down side to it all is, that even if one had 13 amps available, the heating element would only consume 8,7 amps current.
one cannot force current down the tube................................

so, i ended up with 6x 550 watt Canadian solar panels. we have tiled roofs, so around 30 degrees.
all connected in series and facing east words. i have been thinking of placing 3x panels facing east and 3x panels facing west.
this could assist with cloudy mornings or something.
my worries were that, even though, the panels are not shaded, what effect will it have, when the 3x panels facing east has no current through them "afternoon", but the 3x panels facing west "afternoon", might have real good current through them. moving them can easily be done, but one needs double rails. ahh lets just leave it.
the 6x panels in series configuration gave me 240 volts dc.
so i had the volts and amps to run a heating element to its capacity.

i then sourced a plastic drum which i filled with 200 liters of water.
the heating element was placed at the bottom of the plastic drum with no insulation.

i used a temp probe to monitor the water.
night temperature the water went down to 30 degrees Celsius "evening temps currently is around 22 degrees and day time is around teh 30 deegree mark.

so i ran the system and found that the 2000watt heating element would heat up the water in the drum to around 59 degrees.
it was clear that the path was good and level.
even on some cloudy days, the water temp went up to around 58 to 60 degrees.

my whole family has been following this project, so it has been fun.
the system was run for about two weeks up until i was happy to move it all over.

on Saturday, i completed the change over after sun set, the only difference is that the existing heating element is a 3000 watt.
so panel series voltage has dropped down to 210 volts dc, the current draw on a 3000watt heating element is 13 amps, which means peak current is needed to run it good. will do some calculations later on.
by 10:30 the water is already 75 degrees and the system switches off until it reaches 60 degrees whereby it switches on again.
i have had some hot water for sunday night, as well as monday night "`tonight".
im still doing some tests, so i will give you guys another update is a week or so.
for now, im happy.
all is good and now we will see how nature will heat our water.
stay safe.
 
Math doesn't lie.

Why don't you take an array / heater element and calculate the the power going from 10A down every couple amps.

People hook up a couple panels to a charge controller and battery and think it is easy. The way to really understand solar is by heating water.
im too far beyond it.
what i can do now, is to check the 3000 watt heating element and see how it performs, and then decide if i need to revert back to the 2000watt heating element.
 
You are not dealing with independent variables.

If the resistance is fixed (and with the exception of some variance with temperature it largely is when inside a tank of water), and you apply (and can sustain) a given voltage across the resistor, then current (and power) will be what it is,
i.e.
I = V/R
P = V²/R

So if you have a 26.7 Ω resistor and apply and can sustain 240 V across it, then:
I = 240 V / 26.7 Ω = 8.99 A
P = (240 V)² / 26.7 Ω = 2,157 W

You can't just magic 10 A in the circuit.

To increase the current and/or power you either have to increase the voltage, reduce the resistance, or both.

Note the use of the phrase "and can sustain" with respect to voltage. If a supply cannot sustain the voltage, then you are dealing with different issues.
The reason for the 2000 watt heating element was to be in the middle, rather then peak, which one could only get for a very short period of time.
the panels can give a maximum of 13 amps when the stars align. but i was rather looking at a midpoint on teh panels.
average as advised earlier in this tread.
 
what are everyone's thoughts on using a heat pump water heater? here in Japan there are plenty of used heat pump water heaters on the market.
a friend who is a licensed A/C & R tech here explained to me that the Japanese units have a heat exchanger built into the compressor/fan side (the box that sits out side with the compressor etc. in it), and that theoretically any tank could be used.
If they used standard freon based refrigerants they were limited due to the gas itself of about +50 to+60°c where as if i got one that used CO2 as the refrigerant they were good up to about +80°C they also come with a programable timer that allows them to run only when you want (TOU setup)

so take a look at this tank in the photo, i just won it on yahoo auction. It is a 1700 liter insulated tank used to chill milk down. it has 1" of the blue type foam cast between the interior stainless wall and the exterior stainless wall. my thought was to pour a pad, and then build an enclosure around this adding more insulation to the exterior. originally I wanted a bigger tank (12,000 liter) but could not afford one and it would not be insulated so i think this size is perfect for my experiment.

run it for 2-4 hours per day starting at a time when my batteries are at about 80% charged and let it run till the sun starts to drop or my batteries discharge to say 70% i would need to play with it a bit to find the sweet spot between production and battery SOC against what my panels can produce.

and lastly no resistance heater, the heat pump would always be working at its peak efficiency and would just be skimming off the top bit of power which is not an issue for lithium cells as they do not need to be charged to 100%

that or i could go the resistance heater route. thoughts?

1709614109068.png
 
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