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These BYD 3-4kw for $295 are a great price. But any good?

Newenough

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I'd seen a lot of post and vids on these last year. Both good and issues with advertised power vs not so much...

But I am considering getting 10-12 of these.

I spoke with one of the reps and they are between 3-4kw, guaranteed.no bad cells and a big plus is they're only a few hours from me. I know some of you got them, what were the results? Your setup (BMS choice, and keeping cells in balance?). Regrets? Should I pass?

Thanks.
 
This is one to be careful of. Many people got suckered at first but they made good apparently. Many of the packs did not live up to the minimum so they made price adjustments and corrections. Have they fixed that and are they doing Due Diligence ? I dunno. A few folks wrote about their experiences, including some that went whole hog crazy, suffered for it and then they stopped posting after realizing they screwed themselves up. I guess embarrassment took over I suppose. Remember these are USED and not all will have the same amount of "wear & tear" so you may get good strong packs and some with weak cells and you will not know that till you add a BMS to them and do tests on the cells & packs.

Some quick numbers to keep in mind: (gross, meaning 100% usage)
24V/100AH = 2.4kWh
24V/280AH = 6.27kWh

10 BYD @ 295.00 ea = 2950.00 for an absolute maximum of 4Kwh per pack is 40kWh but more realistically 3Kwh per pack for 30kWh total.
10 BMS', 1x 8S BMS per pack with at least 100A Capacity is roughly $100 - $125 per pack.
Add 1x fuse per pack, wiring, bus bars etc...

NOTE: You may have the advantage here in one way, being that they are local and IF you can get them to commit on PAPER that they will guarantee no bad cells and fully functioning packs with a "Replacement Guarantee" if any pack does not meet spec they'll replace it free of charge for say 60 days, you'd be ok. If possible get them to match the whole batch of 10 packs otherwise I'd be leary... Get things on paper, verbal means squat in small claims court.
 
Anybody in San Diego/Orange/S. Riverside counties interested in going in on a group purchase of these $275 24V BYD packs and splitting the freight to make them more affordable?
I have one of the older batches from earlier this year and am looking for 2 more.
Or, possibly someone close by has 1 or 2 extras?
 
"Shipping is a flat rate $350 to the lower 48 states. Buy 1 or 100 and shipping is only $350."

Shipping changes everything. Shipping costs 20% more than the battery. Math isn't good until one buys about 4ish - the way I see it.
 
10 BYD @ 295.00 ea = 2950.00 for an absolute maximum of 4Kwh per pack is 40kWh but more realistically 3Kwh per pack for 30kWh total.
And I paid $3300 for 28kWh of new LFP delivered to my door. I have spent the past 4 years nursing a Frankpack of used Nissan Leaf modules. It is nice to have a new pack that behaves well. It all depends on where you are standing.
 
I have both:
USED BYD pack - $4k for 47KWH = 85$/KWH
New EVE Cell pack $1700 for 14.5KWH =117$/KWH

BYD pack is working great for me but it took 6 months of tinkering and fiddling to get it stable and working properly. Plus they are used so remaining cycle life is a big "?". Plus they are very bulky and very very _heavy_, plus it is cost prohibitive and exceedingly complex to monitor/balance at the cell level. I had to parallel wire all the individual cells so they could mostly balance themselves... Painstaking and tedious.

Given the choice I just ordered another 43.6KWH worth of 280AH EVE cells from Amy because they are quick, easy and mostly painless. Well worth the few extra dollars.
 
I've got 12 of the BYDs (bought the bakers dozen but one had a totally dead cell) that I'm finally assembling after months of doing other projects. To meet my target capacity I have to get 6 more. (The tyranny of sunk costs...)
If I were to do it again I'd do the 280AH EVE cells instead. The irony is that I was actually testing individual 280AH cells when these BYDs came along and I jumped on them because of their advertised capacity at the price they were an awesome deal.
They are still a decent deal, but so far I've found that there is always 1 or 2 cells per module that are undercapacity and the best way is to add capacity to those cells (or cell groups if you're paralleling) to make up for most of the bulk cell capactiy mismatch and use a active balancer to make up for the small differences. You can also go with a 5 or 10A active balancer but those things are expensive! Adding headways (or in my case cells from the broken down bad module) is a lot cheaper.
 
Here is a video that I found during my hunt for an Active Balancer that will perform on Large Capacity cells. There is a myriad of them out but quite a few are not up to snuff. Most are fairly low amperage but fortunately not all. I discovered two brands which have consistent reviews an evals. QNBBM & Heltec (which have many variations). Of Note: Heltex also produces BMS' and some even have Balancing, I believe Active Balancing as well, I haven't delved deeply into that. Head-Up ! There are many flavours of Active Balancer, be 100% certain that if your ordering one, that it is the correct one for your chemistry or that it will directly support it. A LiPo one on LFP would NOT be a good thing.

Here is a Vid to QNBBM on a BYD pack, could use several BMS' not just the Chargery which is what this fellow happens to be using. Note the fuses.

I now have 4 QNBBM 8S Active balancers in transit and hope to have them end of next week. I'll be writing up my exp with them but alas, I have no BYD packs, jus new EVE 280's and those cells from THAT ShunBin mess (those are the ones I expect will make most use of the Active Balancers).

REFS: (on Alibaba)
HELTEC Active Balancers page: https://cncdheltec.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-814905857/Active_Equalizer.html

Deligreen Active Balancers: https://deligreen.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-806516208/Active_Balancer_BMS.html?
 
I've got the 1S Deligreen balancers and I'm pretty happy with them for balancing, but in my tests where I'm discharging the pack at about .5C (1700 watts, ~59ish amps) they just can't even begin to keep up. They're going a pretty good job of balancing when I'm charging at 19 amps and keep things at 12-18mv difference. I'm only charging to 3.45 volts per cell because above that the cells get 150mv out of whack in spite of the balancers.
I think you'll be happy with them.
 
Here is a video that I found during my hunt for an Active Balancer that will perform on Large Capacity cells. There is a myriad of them out but quite a few are not up to snuff. Most are fairly low amperage but fortunately not all. I discovered two brands which have consistent reviews an evals. QNBBM & Heltec (which have many variations). Of Note: Heltex also produces BMS' and some even have Balancing, I believe Active Balancing as well, I haven't delved deeply into that. Head-Up ! There are many flavours of Active Balancer, be 100% certain that if your ordering one, that it is the correct one for your chemistry or that it will directly support it. A LiPo one on LFP would NOT be a good thing.

Here is a Vid to QNBBM on a BYD pack, could use several BMS' not just the Chargery which is what this fellow happens to be using. Note the fuses.

I now have 4 QNBBM 8S Active balancers in transit and hope to have them end of next week. I'll be writing up my exp with them but alas, I have no BYD packs, jus new EVE 280's and those cells from THAT ShunBin mess (those are the ones I expect will make most use of the Active Balancers).

REFS: (on Alibaba)
HELTEC Active Balancers page: https://cncdheltec.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-814905857/Active_Equalizer.html

Deligreen Active Balancers: https://deligreen.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-806516208/Active_Balancer_BMS.html?


Once you figure all the extra hardware and time fiddling with the issues of the used packs it sure seems like it is way cheaper to go with new EVE cells...
 
Well, I bought that "24V/400AH ShunBin ~thing~" which had "used 175AH cells" - Bad Deal @ 3K USD. Tired Cells and hoping the QNBBM's will help those 16 cells. ALMOST bought into those used BYD's but as they would not ship to Canada, so that negated that deal quite unceremoniously. Then I discovered the XUBA 280 Deal and the rest is history.

Thing is, because these Bulk Cells which are not "factory matched & batched for voltage & IR", and due to the capacity, passive balancing really doesn't cut it either. I just had tracking tell me next Friday (the 18th) the QNBBM's will be delivered (their best guesstimate I suppose).

Had I know what I know today back when, I could have saved a Pile of Dough, a mess of Headaches and tons of experimental trials & tribulations which also involved occasional high doses of Tylenol.
 
Once you figure all the extra hardware and time fiddling with the issues of the used packs it sure seems like it is way cheaper to go with new EVE cells...
Had I know what I know today back when, I could have saved a Pile of Dough, a mess of Headaches and tons of experimental trials & tribulations which also involved occasional high doses of Tylenol.
A very heartfelt AMEN brothers. I was so discouraged I dropped it and went on to the next project (filling in a gully w/ 1500 yards of dirt) which has taken all the summer.

I'm doing a 4 way test that I'll post in a few days: One of just a BYD module top balanced using the active balancer and then discharged at 1700W with the active balancer on. The same module top balanced and then discharged at 200W with the active balancer. Then Headways added to the under capacity cells (there are two of them) @ 1700W. Then just the bare module top balanced and discharged at 1700W WITHOUT the active balancers.
 
Well, I bought that "24V/400AH ShunBin ~thing~" which had "used 175AH cells" - Bad Deal @ 3K USD. Tired Cells and hoping the QNBBM's will help those 16 cells. ALMOST bought into those used BYD's but as they would not ship to Canada, so that negated that deal quite unceremoniously. Then I discovered the XUBA 280 Deal and the rest is history.

Thing is, because these Bulk Cells which are not "factory matched & batched for voltage & IR", and due to the capacity, passive balancing really doesn't cut it either. I just had tracking tell me next Friday (the 18th) the QNBBM's will be delivered (their best guesstimate I suppose).

Had I know what I know today back when, I could have saved a Pile of Dough, a mess of Headaches and tons of experimental trials & tribulations which also involved occasional high doses of Tylenol.
Steve, I'm planning to build a 48v 16 to 32 cell LifePo Prismatic battery with around 10kW+ depending on the cells I get. Knowing what you know now what size cells, supplier and BMS would you suggest? PS Like your Youtube channel! -Keith
 
Steve, I'm planning to build a 48v 16 to 32 cell LifePo Prismatic battery with around 10kW+ depending on the cells I get. Knowing what you know now what size cells, supplier and BMS would you suggest? PS Like your Youtube channel! -Keith
:LOL: I don't have a youtube account, this site belongs to Will, I'm just a member here.

With prismatics, you ONLY want to use a max of 90%. many use 80% leaving 10% from the top & bottom to maximize the cycles.
Quicky Math: 48V LFP pack actual voltages are 40V (2.50 per cell 0% SOC) to 58.40V (3.65 per cell 100% SOC) 48.0V=3.0V per cell.
200AH X 48V = 9,600AH (-20%=7,680AH / 368.64 kWh), -16 cells
280AH X 48V = 13,440AH (-20%=10,752AH / 516.1 kWh) -16 cells
A Handy Electrical Calculator toolset to bookmark: https://www.inchcalculator.com/electrical-property-conversion-calculators/

With the Grade-A commodity cells, which are Voltage & IR compliant "for the grade" but not fully matched & batched for Voltage & Internal Resistance (adds $ per cell) it is common to see some float & deviation, 1mv per AH is not uncommon and they do deviate more at the top & bottom. "Commodity Cells" means bought from Manufacturer, after passing grading compliance tests and without defects. Fully Matched & Batched sets can cost 2X or more. These of course are more economical to build with and with only using 80 or 90 % of the full cell capacity, that more or less negates these issues. Some folk do get their knickers in a knot over a certain amount of minutia.

With the above stated, I feel that a good quality Active Balancing system capable of transferring High Volts from cells to Low Volt cells within an active ESS (Energy Storage System) and a good quality BMS to control & protect the battery pack is pretty important overall. NOTE on Passive Balancing: passive, is very slow, typically < 2A does little good unless the cells are Fully Matched & Bottom/Top Balanced with minimal deviation. All passive does is burn off high voltage from cells bringing them into balance with the lowest voltage cells.

My Active Balancers will be arriving this Friday 18th (so they say) and my battery systems will be completed within a week after that when I will be writing it up a bit and making observations etc. I'm doing my final powerhouse overhaul when weather cooperates.

BMS Choice depends on the application, the expected normal & maximum amps will be demanded and obviously how much charge capacity will be hitting the battery bank. For my application, I chose Chargery BMS' which will now have 300A DCC's (Solid State Bi-Directional Contactors).

CHARGING: Charging is to be determined by the total capacity of the battery bank and how long it would take to charge it on the shortest Sun Hour Days for your location if charging by solar. Most figure on 3 days full reserve, so assuming 3 days of no sun to reach 15% then you have to be able to recharge from that to 90% within the time period you can get. Alternately a Generator could be used or the grid as well with the proper equipment.
 
Some quick numbers to keep in mind: (gross, meaning 100% usage)
24V/100AH = 2.4kWh
24V/280AH = 6.27kWh

10 BYD @ 295.00 ea = 2950.00 for an absolute maximum of 4Kwh per pack is 40kWh but more realistically 3Kwh per pack for 30kWh total.
10 BMS', 1x 8S BMS per pack with at least 100A Capacity is roughly $100 - $125 per pack.
Add 1x fuse per pack, wiring, bus bars etc...

Steve is there any known DIY use BMS that the manufacturer endorses for parallel use ?

From what i can tell the Daly BMS, JBD and Ant BMS reps say parallel is not supported.

However the overkill documentation shows wiring diagrams for parallel battery packs (I believe they're using JBD BMSs)
 
I can't recommend a FET Based BMS, I don't use them so little experience, not enough to make recommendations. I do believe folks are happy with Overkills offering. Some folks are looking at the Heltec BMS with Active Balancer (just surfaced in the forum). BMS choices depend on application & use and personal needs, wants and would like to have's. PC or BlueTooth connectivity for example, relay/contactor based or ?

There is a BMS Poll which has a good amount of info.
 
:LOL: I don't have a youtube account, this site belongs to Will, I'm just a member here.

With prismatics, you ONLY want to use a max of 90%. many use 80% leaving 10% from the top & bottom to maximize the cycles.
Quicky Math: 48V LFP pack actual voltages are 40V (2.50 per cell 0% SOC) to 58.40V (3.65 per cell 100% SOC) 48.0V=3.0V per cell.
200AH X 48V = 9,600AH (-20%=7,680AH / 368.64 kWh), -16 cells
280AH X 48V = 13,440AH (-20%=10,752AH / 516.1 kWh) -16 cells
A Handy Electrical Calculator toolset to bookmark: https://www.inchcalculator.com/electrical-property-conversion-calculators/

I'm struggling hardcore with the math here. I haven't done any of this in decades, and I only knew the math, never applied it. I thought I'd finally gotten my head back wrapped around this, but...

I thought the 200ah and 280ah cells that everyone talks about were all something low, like 3.2v, and the it takes ~16 of those cells to get to ~48 volts. I thought you could do the math two different ways (ex, 3.2v*280ah=896wh*16 cells=14336wh, or 48v*280ah=13440wh) but that's radically different than the ~500kwh you show, when you multiply the 16 after the 48v has already been figured in. What am I missing?
 
I thought the 200ah and 280ah cells that everyone talks about were all something low, like 3.2v, and the it takes ~16 of those cells to get to ~48 volts. I thought you could do the math two different ways (ex, 3.2v*280ah=896wh*16 cells=14336wh, or 48v*280ah=13440wh) but that's radically different than the ~500kwh you show, when you multiply the 16 after the 48v has already been figured in. What am I missing?
What he's talking about is your charge and discharge voltage regimen: 100% depth-of-charge/discharge would be from 2.5v to 3.65v and back again - thats what the cell is rated for at whatever its published cycle life. What people is do to get 2 to 3 times more cycle life out of the expensive battery cells is to only do a 90% or 80% depth-of-discharge which would be something like 2.9v to 3.5v. If you look at the voltage curves you'll that the charge/discharge isnt linear AT ALL and mostly just flat unless you're at the very top or very bottom of the capacities of your cells.
 
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