diy solar

diy solar

Unstable Grid

ABVT

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Thank you for creating a space that I can ask silly questions...
I live in a city in the U.S. with extremely poor grid reliability. For example, we lost power 17 times in July of this year. Sometimes only for a few seconds at a time but it causes havoc in the house.
What would you suggest for something like this? I would not be installing solar, but I would love to have batteries tied in that could sustain my home, uninterrupted for up to one hour... possibly longer if I build on to the system. Would something like the 48 volt MPPSolar "beginner friendly" system work here along with Battle Born batteries? Do you have any videos on tying it back into the home?
Thank you!
 
For short outages, it may be more cost effective to get UPS units for "critical" loads. I looked at doing something like you are thinking about and sizing a system to run microwaves, refrigerators, dehumidifiers, HVAC, ect for any length of time gets expensive fast especially if you get UL listed equipment. If you already have a sub panel that has all the stuff you would want to keep running, it's easier to wire in the All in one box. The key part in this is figuring out what your critical loads are, how much power they consume and how long you want them to run off battery. Once you have that information, you can start sizing the inverter and battery bank.

All of our networking and computers are on UPS (4 UPS boxes) that will run the computers for an hour or 2. The networking stuff will say up longer so wireless devices like phone/tablets will continue to work after the computer UPS boxes are exhausted. I have another UPS for one of the TVs/set top box. I have a 2000 watt inverter and battery that can run the fridge, microwave, blender and other stuff when needed. I don't bother getting it out unless the power has been off for a few hours or I want to nuke a snack and have a margarita...
 
For example, we lost power 17 times in July of this year.
Wow! What country and city are you in? Some countries are just like that. Oh wait you said US.

But what state? California intentional power outages didn't start until October. I mean we'd have a few power outages a year in northern Michigan but not 17 per year.
 
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Thank you for creating a space that I can ask silly questions...
I live in a city in the U.S. with extremely poor grid reliability. For example, we lost power 17 times in July of this year. Sometimes only for a few seconds at a time but it causes havoc in the house.
What would you suggest for something like this? I would not be installing solar, but I would love to have batteries tied in that could sustain my home, uninterrupted for up to one hour... possibly longer if I build on to the system. Would something like the 48 volt MPPSolar "beginner friendly" system work here along with Battle Born batteries? Do you have any videos on tying it back into the home?
Thank you!

Something like a computer, a fast USP with battery backup built in.
Keeps brown outs, quick cuts and surges out of the computer.

For something like a fridge/freezer, 2,000 watt inverter, battery & battery charger.
Battery kept charged off the grid.
2,000 Watts will start most fridges/freezers and let you run LED style lights.
A little push cart let's you unplug the charger and roll it to plug the fridge into.

A large, single battery will give you a good while if people keep the fridge door closed.

It depends on how much of the home you want to power...
The more you want to run, the bigger the inverter/battery bank needs to be.

You will reach a point where it's more economical to use a generator if you want everything powered.
 
If you really want it wired into your home, you're building what is essentially a "DIY PowerWall", there's a sub-forum here for that, you may find specific help there. Since you're not off grid, you'll probably need a permit and a licensed electrician to do the work to tie this into your house. You don't need the Solar charge controller, just a battery an inverter/charger, wiring, and fuses/breakers.

If you don't need automatic failover when the AC goes out, then you can build something like what I'm building. It's a "portable" battery with an inverter charger. I plan to plug it into the home AC using a standard 120V wall socket, unplug it and leave it. During a blackout, I'll wheel it in the house and plug in the fridge or other "essentials" like hair dryers and such. Diagrams and discussion on my project here:

I measured my "needs" at needing at no more than 1.5kWh of energy a day, and needing

You will reach a point where it's more economical to use a generator if you want everything powered.
.
^^^^ This true for pretty much all situations.
If you're looking for lowest cost, the generator is almost always going to win. The not-as-cheap-as-others Honda 2000W gas genny is about $1000. A good 2000W inverter/charger is going to be at least $1000, that's before the battery or anything else.
 
What would you suggest for something like this? I would not be installing solar, but I would love to have batteries tied in that could sustain my home, uninterrupted for up to one hour... possibly longer if I build on to the system. Would something like the 48 volt MPPSolar "beginner friendly" system work here along with Battle Born batteries? Do you have any videos on tying it back into the home?
Thank you!
I'm doing something very similar, except I'm including solar for long term grid down situations. I'll tell you up front - it's going to be expensive even if you know how to install breakers in your main panel and transfer switches.

Two main ways of going about it: You do your entire house, or you do individual circuits.

With your entire house you install a transfer switch for the main power input from the street, it can be a manual or automatic transfer switch. This is the easiest to do as you're mirroring what is usually done with back up whole house generators and there's just the one connection. The downside is your going to need a larger split phase inverter and battery bank to handle the whole house load. If its a automatic transfer switch you're going to need a LARGE inverter to handle any load that could be running when the grid power goes out.

A subset to this is you can leave the transfer switch semi-permanently switched to the 240/120v split phase inverter/charger, one that has it's own internal transfer switch and bypass and is connected to the grid. The inverter/charger inverting function is offline and keeps the batteries charged and passes grid power through it to service the loads. BIG inverter for this. When power goes out the inverter disconnects from the grid and starts inverting and servicing the loads, take a look at the Outback Radian GS8048 as a bare minimum.

Individual circuits - what you do here is rather than one transfer switch for the main house input, you do a transfer switch for individual circuits (living room, kitchen, etc) and you move selected circuits from the house breaker box to the transfer switch which may or may not have its own breakers, some transfer switches just get wired inbetween the main power and the existing circuit breaker. Take a look at "Reliance" transfer switches, its what I'm using (actually I'm using two, one for the 120v loads and one for the 240v loads).

With this you have the output from the split phase inverter feeding the transfer switch input, again the inverter is connected to the grid (usually through your main panel) and the selected circuits are switched over in the transfer switch. The inverter is not inverting but still monitoring the grid power availability and if the grid goes down the inverter kicks on and services the loads.
Whats useful here is you can have critical circuits switched over (computers, fridge, freezer, furnace, etc) and leave high draw circuits (electric stove, electric dryer, electric water heater, etc) unswitched to draw power directly from the grid. If the power goes out and stays out you can then switch them over and manually manage the load to the inverter as to not overload it.

Individual circuits are more flexible and you can use a smaller inverter. But those transfer switches arent free either.
 
The not-as-cheap-as-others Honda 2000W gas genny is about $1000.
But Honda lasts a lot longer with less trouble. So the cost of running it (and repairs) is significantly lower per year over the long term. Honda engines of all types have a really good reputation, as do Toyota. The cost of an item is not just the initial cost, it's the total cost of ownership over it's lifetime. The longer the lifetime, the lower the cost of ownership per year.

So if I get a cheap laminated belt for my pants for $14 and it lasts 2 years the COO is $7 per year. (I've had 4 cheapo belts and they never seem to last more than 2 years.)

If I get a $30 solid leather belt and it lasts 30 years, COO is $1 per year.

So I might buy cheap hand tools because experience shows me they do last a long time with lower COO per year. I have a cheap socket set from 1984 and it still doesn't have a spec of rust on it and works fine. However I don't buy cheap bench power tools as the motors are often underpowerd (Harbor Freight I'm talking about you) or cheap batteries as they don't last many recharges (Harbor Freight cordless tool batteries again).

In fact, Harbor Freight Thunderbolt alkaline batteries are so bad, you buy them and just throw them in the trash, and then you don't have to go through the pesky middle step of using them for 10 minutes. We actually got that pack for free.
 
But Honda lasts a lot longer with less trouble. So the cost of running it (and repairs) is significantly lower per year over the long term. Honda engines of all types have a really good reputation, as do Toyota. The cost of an item is not just the initial cost, it's the total cost of ownership over it's lifetime. The longer the lifetime, the lower the cost of ownership per year.

Agree with all this. I wasn't bagging on Honda. If I were going to buy a generator, that EU2000i is probably what I'd end up with. The point I was trying to make is:
The up-front costs of the battery solution are much higher. You're going to spend $1000 or little less on a 2000W capable generator. Comparing to the "electrical generator", that $1000 buys you a 2000W inverter/charger and you still have to buy a likely very expensive battery.

To your point, the total cost of ownership over 5 or 10 years of the electric generator solution may be better, I haven't calculated it out. Part of why I'm doing it is for the project itself. Also, just like the Honda vs others, it's possible to get less expensive gear.
 
Agree with all this. I wasn't bagging on Honda.
No problem. You can disagree if you want also, I prefer to have as much experience from other people as possible. :) But I just try to add my 2 cents to help everyone out as a community. The internet is a great place for community, but we need real life community more too.
 
Champion makes a pretty durable long lasting generator that usually runs less than Honda. I know several guys that run framing crews and run champions hard every day and have used them for years with no problems.
I
Like Honda gennys but even Honda produces a few lemons here and there.
Even Predators show good durability.
These Chinese gennys are getting better and last.
Just my .02 ✌️
 
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Champion makes a pretty durable long lasting generator that usually runs less than Honda. I know several guys that run framing crews and run champions hard every day and have used them for years with no problems.
I
Like Honda gennys but even Honda produces a few lemons here and there.
Even Predators show good durability.
These Chinese gennys are getting better and last.
Just my .02 ✌

I have a Champion that I got from Cabelas. Only problem over 5 years is that the pull cord broke. Easy fix. Much louder than a Honda but $400
 
I have a Big Champion 7200/9000 for my compressor, mig welder and sometime by backup power for solar. Not one spec of trouble in 5 years and a LOT of hours. Destroyed one Inverter Generator (King 3000W) when a power supply failed and it blew MOSFETS on the High Frequency inverter ands was unrepairable. Bought an Energizer 3200P & in 2 weeks (55 hrs) I had to have it in the shop and they replaced all the guts (took 2 weeks) and the Carb (electronic) is now messed up.

Champion makes EXCELLENT backup gensets which can also run off LPG or Natural Gas and are a damned good $ value too !
https://www.championpowerequipment.com/products/generators/home-standby-generators/

A Home UPS with battery pack can be had, they vary in prices & capacities and a PowerWall (ala Tesla) is but one flavour on the high $ side. Thing is, these are intended for "critical supply" and not to power everything in your house like the grid does, if you want that, your in deep dollar land...

Good Overview article here: https://www.wholesalesolar.com/back-up-power

❗ IMPORTANT READ HERE:

 
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Wether your buying a generator made in China of mostly Chinese parts or the other option of buying a generator partially assembled in North America of mostly Chinese parts, it's buyer beware. My current 7,500 watt, electric start, Chinese gasoline/propane generator is about five years old and I would call it good in terms of the things that matter most, like producing a reliable, somewhat quality power output and starting, but it has always had it's quirks. When this one dies, (and I never quite know when it's next hurrah is it's last hurrah), I would love to be able to afford a remote start generator made in China by that most famous Japanese brand.
 
Except for the Uber expensive, portable HondeR suitcase jennie and possibly some knock off suitcase models, all generators sound like banging metal trashcan lids together while at the same time beating on trashcans with metal pipes, yet, have the audacity to call themselves "quiet". Sheesh.
 
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