Why is grounding so HArrrd!!!

[Skypower]

Thank you. Ive owned seven or so homes, never seen this method. They are usually next to the meter/panel and 2 feet away from the house.

My house is a tract house built on a slab. I never found a ground rod, but found the main panel ground went to the rebar in the foundation. There’s a small box in the stucco wall and that’s where the clamp is. I think it’s called a “UFER” ground. If the rebar is well interconnected they are supposed to be an excellent ground. I used to think that concrete was a reasonable insulator, boy was I wrong.

 

[pollenface]

Just because you are making the electricity instead of the power company does not in any way eliminate the need for a ground. If you are feeding a shared sub-panel that is grounded to your grid panel , your inverters should all be connected above the earth to the same earth ground as your primary ground. There has been much argument and consternation about the neutral bond, the consensus seems to be to leave it at your main panel. YMMV with your local inspectors.

Okay ?

 

[RandyP]

In my opinion Grounding is so hard because there are terms and concepts used when discussing grounding that are very basic and universal in any regulation compliant area that are no understood by the general public. Basically do it your self solar community needs to make the effort to understand the basic concepts and learn the terminology before it will discover that grounding is not hard, its basic. Untill you are educated, get a journeyman wireman that has an interest in solar electric systems to do your grounding.

 

[Rednecktek]

I still find the biggest issue is that grounding the wiring and the ground bonding & wires and the ground that you stand on are 3 different things using the same words.

 

[Westcliffe01]

Im currently building what I refer to as my "survival shack" which I will live in at 9000ft until I have my house built. Its not a conventional build, I made it from 2" square tube with 11ga wall, all fully welded and cross braced. When I originally started it I was thinking of going to Montana on the continental divide (literally) and the place had grizzly, black bear, wolves, moose, mountain lion and pretty much any other bite and scratch/eat candidate you could think of. So it was made to keep a grizzly out long enough that you could at least get to your rifle...

That building sat out in a field in SE Michigan for several years since I ended up not going to Montana after all. I had put a plywood roof on top of the steel framing and then glued an RV type rubber roof down on it using contact cement. Well a few years in I noticed that the rubber roof was damaged but couldnt figure out how the damage occurred. Long story short, I recently brought the building to my house to rebuild since the roof was rotted out, given the damage to the waterproofing membrane. When I got up on the roof to drill out the rivets holding on the ply I found it had a direct lightning strike. It appeared that the frame of the building had dissipated a large amount of the energy in the strike, but some of the plasma had penetrated the roofing membrane and got between it and the ply and the hot gas had inflated the roof membrane like a balloon until it popped. That was what cause a strip about 2-3ft wide to be ripped off the roof from the center to one edge, a distance of about 6 ft.

Moving forward, when I set up this building in Colorado at 9000ft where there is a LOT of lightning in the afternoon in summer, I will have a pole planted next to the building going to a height of at least 20ft with an upward pointing "brush" made from copper wire and with a bare copper wire running down to an earth spike driven into the ground. This, I hope would protect the shack, which is clad in steel roofing and siding from a direct strike. I will do something similar with my solar array, when the time comes. I see this as a lightning conductor, not a building ground system. The building and its electrical installation will have its own ground.

 

[Balrog006]

Im currently building what I refer to as my "survival shack" which I will live in at 9000ft until I have my house built. Its not a conventional build, I made it from 2" square tube with 11ga wall, all fully welded and cross braced. When I originally started it I was thinking of going to Montana on the continental divide (literally) and the place had grizzly, black bear, wolves, moose, mountain lion and pretty much any other bite and scratch/eat candidate you could think of. So it was made to keep a grizzly out long enough that you could at least get to your rifle...

That building sat out in a field in SE Michigan for several years since I ended up not going to Montana after all. I had put a plywood roof on top of the steel framing and then glued an RV type rubber roof down on it using contact cement. Well a few years in I noticed that the rubber roof was damaged but couldnt figure out how the damage occurred. Long story short, I recently brought the building to my house to rebuild since the roof was rotted out, given the damage to the waterproofing membrane. When I got up on the roof to drill out the rivets holding on the ply I found it had a direct lightning strike. It appeared that the frame of the building had dissipated a large amount of the energy in the strike, but some of the plasma had penetrated the roofing membrane and got between it and the ply and the hot gas had inflated the roof membrane like a balloon until it popped. That was what cause a strip about 2-3ft wide to be ripped off the roof from the center to one edge, a distance of about 6 ft.

Moving forward, when I set up this building in Colorado at 9000ft where there is a LOT of lightning in the afternoon in summer, I will have a pole planted next to the building going to a height of at least 20ft with an upward pointing "brush" made from copper wire and with a bare copper wire running down to an earth spike driven into the ground. This, I hope would protect the shack, which is clad in steel roofing and siding from a direct strike. I will do something similar with my solar array, when the time comes. I see this as a lightning conductor, not a building ground system. The building and its electrical installation will have its own ground.

You at least, unlike many others. Have some idea that lighting protection and electrical grounding and bonding are separate and distinctly different concepts. Your idea of a lightning rod is interesting, and could be effective, though it’s not the typical kind of lightning protection seen in industrial construction.

 

[Westcliffe01]

You at least, unlike many others. Have some idea that lighting protection and electrical grounding and bonding are separate and distinctly different concepts. Your idea of a lightning rod is interesting, and could be effective, though it’s not the typical kind of lightning protection seen in industrial construction.

Back in ZA some well heeled people had thatch roofs. They always had twin poles with lightning conductors on them because if the lightning did strike the thatch there was no way you were going to get the fire put out. They apparently went like that for decades without being struck. In germany, it was also commonplace to see copper lightning conductors run along the ridge of the house and then down to a ground rod. In the Alps at some of the buildings up on the ridges, the lightning protection schemes were very obvious. I have never seen anything similar in the US.

 

[timselectric]

A typical US lighting protection system. Is made up of multiple air terminals. Placed at the highest points of a building. They are all connected together with large braided copper conductors. And multiple large braided copper conductors are ran down the exterior of the building and connected to ground rods. These ground rods are also connected together in a loop at the ground level.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Back in ZA some well heeled people had thatch roofs. They always had twin poles with lightning conductors on them because if the lightning did strike the thatch there was no way you were going to get the fire put out. They apparently went like that for decades without being struck. In germany, it was also commonplace to see copper lightning conductors run along the ridge of the house and then down to a ground rod. In the Alps at some of the buildings up on the ridges, the lightning protection schemes were very obvious. I have never seen anything similar in the US.

Go to Orlando.

 

[Balrog006]

Back in ZA some well heeled people had thatch roofs. They always had twin poles with lightning conductors on them because if the lightning did strike the thatch there was no way you were going to get the fire put out. They apparently went like that for decades without being struck. In germany, it was also commonplace to see copper lightning conductors run along the ridge of the house and then down to a ground rod. In the Alps at some of the buildings up on the ridges, the lightning protection schemes were very obvious. I have never seen anything similar in the US.

I see those copper conductors and small antennas on many large mid and early century buildings mostly made of stone in bigger cities. They’re out there. Old houses and barns in the plains have lightning rods and copper ground wiring.

Today on highway side appurtenances (lighting and camera towers, weather stations, electronic information boards, sign supports, etc) we usually have a small top array and a weld bonded, braided SS cable coming down and out of the base to a separate ground rod.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Our lightning rods are aluminum, the conductors are braided aluminum. They are over 20 years old.

 

[Supervstech]

Our lightning rods are aluminum, the conductors are braided aluminum. They are over 20 years old.

Interesting.
I haven’t seen an aluminum rod. Ya got pics of it?
Braided grounding conductor should be armor protected.

 

[timselectric]

Braided grounding conductor should be armor protected.

It sounds like a good idea. But, the one's around here aren't.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Interesting.
I haven’t seen an aluminum rod. Ya got pics of it?
Braided grounding conductor should be armor protected.

Tomorrow I can make other images of any particulars if helpful. This image was on my phone:

 

[Supervstech]

Tomorrow I can make other images of any particulars if helpful. This image was on my phone:

View attachment 178416

That’s a lightning rod.
Not a grounding rod. Different system.

 

[Philip53]

Maybe some lightning wise person can comment on something I read years ago. That the lightning protection aerials and the system in general is not to get hit by lightning to protect the house, but rather to 'drain' off the electrical potential in the air surrounding a structure so that lightning is less likely to occur there. If you think about it, if that aerial got hit by lightning it would likely vaporize that rod, and the braided wire all the way to the ground.

Any experts out there?

 

[Supervstech]

Maybe some lightning wise person can comment on something I read years ago. That the lightning protection aerials and the system in general is not to get hit by lightning to protect the house, but rather to 'drain' off the electrical potential in the air surrounding a structure so that lightning is less likely to occur there. If you think about it, if that aerial got hit by lightning it would likely vaporize that rod, and the braided wire all the way to the ground.

Any experts out there?

This is what I was taught.
The point helps to equalize the voltage imbalance of the capacitance of the storm

 

[ksmithaz1]

Maybe some lightning wise person can comment on something I read years ago. That the lightning protection aerials and the system in general is not to get hit by lightning to protect the house, but rather to 'drain' off the electrical potential in the air surrounding a structure so that lightning is less likely to occur there. If you think about it, if that aerial got hit by lightning it would likely vaporize that rod, and the braided wire all the way to the ground.

Any experts out there?

Not me but on the 'vaporization' theme. . .

I had a 3ft monopole fiberglass aerial serving wifi to my neighborhood. Connected to a 2.4ghz linear amp in a closet, LMR400 cable about 30 feet. to the closet with the equipment. LMR400 is a little bigger than RG-8, center conductor is FAT, but nothing like a braid. When it came into the attic the cable curled into an & shape/dragonfly wing, the tip was laying against the foam sheathing before proceeding thru the attic to the wiring closet. The other side of the sheathing had metal screening then stucco.

Lighting hit the aerial, it exploded. At the tip of the dragonfly wing the cable exploded and blew a baseball sized hole in the wall. I found fiberglass fragments of the antenna 1/4 mile away. Pretty much ruined all the equipment in the closet. I'm not sure that little loop might not have keep the stuff in there from actually exploding.

I think it matters that the paths are as straight as possible from the attracter to ground. I actually had enough excess cable to just cut it where it blew and put on a new end, and keep chugging. A few months later I went to a POE arrangement with a custom box/AP under the eave.

 

[Philip53]

In Africa, those grass huts with dirt floors have killed/injured many people due to nearby lightning strikes. What I have read is that they will dig a trench around the hut & bury a copper cable, and probably put down a ground rod or two as well. This has met with great success, I have read.

I recently built a small garage about 75' from my house. I put a third solar array on the roof, with a combiner/disconnect on the rear wall of the building. I did add another ground rod next to this disconnect. The solar panels and the disconnect were connected to this ground rod, and this additional ground rod was connected directly by a separate cable to the pair of existing interconnected ground rods near the main house panels. All three of the ground rods are connected to each other.

 

[JRH]

Not me but on the 'vaporization' theme. . .

I had a 3ft monopole fiberglass aerial serving wifi to my neighborhood. Connected to a 2.4ghz linear amp in a closet, LMR400 cable about 30 feet. to the closet with the equipment. LMR400 is a little bigger than RG-8, center conductor is FAT, but nothing like a braid. When it came into the attic the cable curled into an & shape/dragonfly wing, the tip was laying against the foam sheathing before proceeding thru the attic to the wiring closet. The other side of the sheathing had metal screening then stucco.

Lighting hit the aerial, it exploded. At the tip of the dragonfly wing the cable exploded and blew a baseball sized hole in the wall. I found fiberglass fragments of the antenna 1/4 mile away. Pretty much ruined all the equipment in the closet. I'm not sure that little loop might not have keep the stuff in there from actually exploding.

I think it matters that the paths are as straight as possible from the attracter to ground. I actually had enough excess cable to just cut it where it blew and put on a new end, and keep chugging. A few months later I went to a POE arrangement with a custom box/AP under the eave.

I have had 5 lightning events in my life ….some killed people , some killed animals , some just keeps knocking out my internet gear and one burnt down our large family home on the coast…some hit sailboats in my marina and killed half the occupants. I have seen two of the strikes occur…
IIRC within the last few months a lightning bolt hit a falcon 9 rocket on te pad in Fla getting ready to launch and the mission was scrubbed…I don’t know all the details..
( and look at the expensive and elaborate lightning protection of the NASA launch pad ) ..

I really don’t know if lightning cares at all what we do, or don’t do … it just does what it wishes when it wants to do it…and ya can’t even sue it…

I just know, at some point , when I get my system totally finished out and working perfect and need nothing else , lightning will come and take it out…

it’s the way life works ..
J.