Zero-export inverter, not backfeed to the grid

[kje]

An off grid inverter has no way to export to the grid.
It's no more connected to the grid than any other appliance in your house.
The power company doesn't care about an off grid inverter, as long as it's wired correctly. (It's output can not be connected to the grid, only its input should be)
The power company only cares about a grid-tied inverter, because it can export to the grid. And must meet their requirements. For the safety of their line workers.

So if I connect the grid mains to an offgrid AIO (like MPP MAX 11kw), the inverter doesn't has to be tested according to the standards (Certifications)? The inverter doesn't has to be approved and I don't have to tell the power company about it?

 

[timselectric]

So if I connect the grid mains to an offgrid AIO (like MPP MAX 11kw), the inverter doesn't has to be tested according to the standards (Certifications)? The inverter doesn't has to be approved and I don't have to tell the power company about it?

Correct, as far as the power company goes.
Local code enforcement is a different entity. Whether or not you need to be inspected by them, is something you will have to check for yourself.

 

[kje]

Correct, as far as the power company goes.
Local code enforcement is a different entity. Whether or not you need to be inspected by them, is something you will have to check for yourself.

Ok, thanks! ?

What is this local code enforcement?

 

[timselectric]

The same group that would inspect the electrical installation of a new home.

 

[Ampster]

What is this local code enforcement?

In many states and counties in the US there are building codes and bureaucracies that try enforce those codes. There are also national standards and codes such as Underwriters Lab (UL) and National Electrical Code (NEC).

 

[jsmetalcraft]

Correct, as far as the power company goes.
Local code enforcement is a different entity. Whether or not you need to be inspected by them, is something you will have to check for yourself.

Better read the fine print published by the power company, at least mine. Completely off grid, go to go. Grid assist, or non export function they require to have an agreement with them. Of course the agreement with them includes going through local and state codes to have it inspected. If you need to ask, they came knocking because I have a hybrid unit that after a firmware update fed small amounts back tot he grid. If your unit did not have this function you could fly under the radar.

 

[timselectric]

Better read the fine print published by the power company, at least mine. Completely off grid, go to go. Grid assist, or non export function they require to have an agreement with them. Of course the agreement with them includes going through local and state codes to have it inspected. If you need to ask, they came knocking because I have a hybrid unit that after a firmware update fed small amounts back tot he grid. If your unit did not have this function you could fly under the radar.

Not a hybrid AIO.
These off grid AIO's don't have the ability to export.

 

[Chuck E.]

Ok thanks. Then it's not possible to use the grid for the loads? If I want that I have to get hybrid inverter like MPP mki 10kw?

Try searching the term "Bi-directional Inverter", I think this is what you may be looking for, its a fairly new term to me from a previous term of "True Hybrid" (which doesnt always cover the grid tie with zero export category). I have an SMA inverter that is Grid Tie, it hooks up to the main power wires (from the electric company) in my "fuse box" of the house. I make power and it feeds the loads of my house and when the power of the solar is GREATER than the power my house is using the inverter "throttles back" to no more than the loads. Be aware in order to do this I have had to purchase a $1000 control box and a device that senses which way the power is flowing called an energy meter (around $200) on top of the inverter cost. There is also some associated stuff like internet connections between these devices to make it all work seemless. I can do Zero Export but because clouds cause solar power to "jump" around and there is "lag" time for the devices to throttle back, I choose to do a -4% grid feedback so I am always USING about 200 watts from the grid to keep the power from jumping positive flow (into my house) to negative flow (out of my house). It just helps my application. There are some inverters that claim do exactly this AND also charge and use batteries but I have no experience with them. Solark and the new MPP6048WP (I think), EG4-8KEXP-240 to name a few.

Best of Luck and be sure to enjoy the journey your embarking on, it truely is a "rewarding" journey!
Chuck

 

[timselectric]

Try searching the term "Bi-directional Inverter", I think this is what you may be looking for, its a fairly new term to me from a previous term of "True Hybrid" (which doesnt always cover the grid tie with zero export category). I have an SMA inverter that is Grid Tie, it hooks up to the main power wires (from the electric company) in my "fuse box" of the house. I make power and it feeds the loads of my house and when the power of the solar is GREATER than the power my house is using the inverter "throttles back" to no more than the loads. Be aware in order to do this I have had to purchase a $1000 control box and a device that senses which way the power is flowing called an energy meter (around $200) on top of the inverter cost. There is also some associated stuff like internet connections between these devices to make it all work seemless. I can do Zero Export but because clouds cause solar power to "jump" around and there is "lag" time for the devices to throttle back, I choose to do a -4% grid feedback so I am always USING about 200 watts from the grid to keep the power from jumping positive flow (into my house) to negative flow (out of my house). It just helps my application. There are some inverters that claim do exactly this AND also charge and use batteries but I have no experience with them. Solark and the new MPP6048WP (I think), EG4-8KEXP-240 to name a few.

Best of Luck and be sure to enjoy the journey your embarking on, it truely is a "rewarding" journey!
Chuck

They don't want grid-tied.

 

[Chuck E.]

They don't want grid-tied.

I'm glad you figured this out, it was hard for me to discern with the reference "hooking it up to his fuse box".
Thanks

 

[Maintenance guy]

We!, as in my friend I helped with an off grid system (Grid assist) installation using a Sigineer 12k AIO many batteries and pannels not getting into the system specifics. Since it was an off grid system I knew we did not need a blue print and approval from the power company. When they came to the house and seen the system the guy immediately screamed grid tie system and threatened to disconnect the power. After a long argument I insisted we go to the main office to end this matter. In the office the main guy said the same thing so I slammed the system schematic on his desk Yelling "Where the F do you see grid tie in this system you fool". I literally walked him through the entire sytem proving it was just like any other load on their system and the AC was used as backup and charging only. FInally after an hour of some really heated discussions with me threatened to get a Lawyer they finally conceded to the fact that I was right.

SO now my friend has to pay the lousy connection fee only which is 25 a month but in my mind is a greedy ripoff in the first place. He and his system is as happy as can be and luckily no problems what so ever. The only time he uses the grid is when it is completely cloudy for a few days with the AC as backup happily charging his batteries and powering his house.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

FInally after an hour of some really heated discussions

That’s the right new hampshire attitude right there??

 

[kje]

FInally after an hour of some really heated discussions with me threatened to get a Lawyer they finally conceded to the fact that I was right.

Nice! ?

 

[Maintenance guy]

Funny!, After the encounter my friend and his wife said I should have been a Lawyer. I threatened to end our friendship on that comment as I deathly hate Lawyers and our Maritime Law enforced on us. ? Needless to say I got a steak dinner with all the trimmings and even got a back rub from his daughter Lol! ??