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Off topic, EV vehicle opinions…

For most people a plug-in hybrid is more economical. But there is more maintenance and things to go wrong. Gas engines are primal in my opinion, compared to electric motors and an inverter circuit. Just a matter of time till we stop using gas engines.

If you watch the current manufacturing updates for Tesla's cell manufacturing, the EVs will be cheaper than gas in the next five years. And will require zero maintenance besides tires and a couple small things.

I think in 5-7 years (time it takes for scale manufacturing of the new cells) EVs will be cheaper than gas cars in every possible way and people will have no choice but to switch.
 
If you look at the performance of a EV built from the ground up it is by far better than any hybrid or DIY EV. The center of gravity is ridiculously low. The charging system can handle way more current than a DIY system. And for the capacity it is a lot cheaper to buy one that is built by a factory. I know this because a lot of my friends in San Diego build EVs. And there is no comparison. You're better off buying a used model 3 then pretty much every option out there. The other options will cost you more money overall.
 
DIYrich said:
except for insurance:
It is easy to total an EV in an accident (battery cost). Something that would be a few thousand to repair on an ICE car.
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Yes good point, I mentioned this about cybertruck. A stainless steel unibody is going to cost a ton to insure. And yes, the premium is higher than gas cars on average.

But as oil costs more over time, and batteries keep dropping in price, there will be a moment where gas cars are only for those who can afford them. They will cost a ton in the future.

And if the battery pack isn't damaged, you can fix an EV just fine. I've had multiple collisions with my EVs and fixed them all. I've actually fixed lots of problems on my older Tesla. They can be repaired easily.

And Tesla is making their own insurance (not in my state though) that will make ev insurance as cheap as gas car insurance. So that's something else to consider.
 
Will Prowse said:
...

I think in 5-7 years (time it takes for scale manufacturing of the new cells) EVs will be cheaper than gas cars in every possible way and people will have no choice but to switch.
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I really don't expect much changes in such a short span of time. Perhaps in 25-30 years. I also expect that after the initial enthusiasm for electric cars (driven by a pro manmade global warming poltical faction) the public will become less enamored once they have to live with them compared to the fossil fuel variety.
 
Mattb4 said:
I really don't expect much changes in such a short span of time. Perhaps in 25-30 years. I also expect that after the initial enthusiasm for electric cars (driven by a pro manmade global warming poltical faction) the public will become less enamored once they have to live with them compared to the fossil fuel variety.
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I agree with you on the timeline, but disagree with you on the public switching. Most people aren't "car" people. They just want to get where they want to go, with as little hassle and cost as possible. The personality and ceremony that goes with a gas car, the little things that car enthusiasts like, is just additional pain in the butt for non car people. They don't like checking oil, they don't like stopping at gas stations, they don't like the smell of gasoline, or the sound and smell of exhaust.

This exactly describes my relationship with gas yard equipment. Went battery electric, and will never go back. You couldn't give me a gas mower. It's got nothing to do with being enamored with anything, I just want my lawn mowed as easily as possible, and the battery electric mower is WAY better at that than a gas mower.

If there was an EV that would easily do 200+ miles, for a similar or slightly higher cost than a comparable ICE car, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
 
Mattb4 said:
I really don't expect much changes in such a short span of time. Perhaps in 25-30 years. I also expect that after the initial enthusiasm for electric cars (driven by a pro manmade global warming poltical faction) the public will become less enamored once they have to live with them compared to the fossil fuel variety.
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How so? Electric cars are better in almost every regard for daily driving. Gasoline is a pain to use. I could make a huge list as to why ice vehicles are pathetic.

And why that long? Have you seen the projected decrease in price for cells from Tesla?

Yeah the political argument is silly. Just the pollution caused by gasoline and the detergents is reason enough to drop gasoline engines. I don't want to breathe that stuff. No one even mentions it in political debate either. They only talk about carbon.

Also people think gasoline would be easier to use in a grid down scenario. Absolutely not. You can charge EVs off-grid in a pinch. I can build a system in one hour that can trickle charge an EV. When the grid goes down, gas stations go down as well. And I promise you people will not be refining oil in their backyard anytime soon ?

Using oil as an energy source made a lot of sense not long ago, but nuclear and solar is superior in the long run. And more plentiful. Give it a thousand years and humans will switch. Oil is finite regardless of politics or emotions.
 
OM617YOTA said:
I agree with you on the timeline, but disagree with you on the public switching. Most people aren't "car" people. They just want to get where they want to go, with as little hassle and cost as possible. The personality and ceremony that goes with a gas car, the little things that car enthusiasts like, is just additional pain in the butt for non car people. They don't like checking oil, they don't like stopping at gas stations, they don't like the smell of gasoline, or the sound and smell of exhaust.

This exactly describes my relationship with gas yard equipment. Went battery electric, and will never go back. You couldn't give me a gas mower. It's got nothing to do with being enamored with anything, I just want my lawn mowed as easily as possible, and the battery electric mower is WAY better at that than a gas mower.

If there was an EV that would easily do 200+ miles, for a similar or slightly higher cost than a comparable ICE car, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
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I cannot stand stopping at gas stations to fill up my race cars. I open carry a firearm everytime I do and am on high alert. Electric vehicles are superior in this regard and always full everytime I wake up in the morning. Having a gas station at home is fantastic. And on road trips, having my Tesla drive me none stop while I take care of this forum or respond to emails cannot be beat. And everytime there is a Tesla charger there is a target or other convenience store nearby to buy healthy food. No comparison to a gas station. I also have a lot of joint problems still and I need to make frequent stops. EVs are the way to go for me.
 
Will Prowse said:
For most people a plug-in hybrid is more economical. But there is more maintenance and things to go wrong. Gas engines are primal in my opinion, compared to electric motors and an inverter circuit. Just a matter of time till we stop using gas engines.

If you watch the current manufacturing updates for Tesla's cell manufacturing, the EVs will be cheaper than gas in the next five years. And will require zero maintenance besides tires and a couple small things.

I think in 5-7 years (time it takes for scale manufacturing of the new cells) EVs will be cheaper than gas cars in every possible way and people will have no choice but to switch.
Click to expand...

Other than some niche applications, PHEV really seems like the worst of both worlds. All the potential little issues of an EV, minus the full EV range, PLUS all the issues of an ICE. Back when EVs only got 70 miles range, having a built in range-extender was a good idea. Now BEVs have enough range that it's not needed.

Only cost makes me consider a PHEV vs. going straight up BEV.
 
I've also been charging EVs in my workshop garage every day for a few years now. I love it. I have three chargers connected depending on what vehicle and where it's parked. If the grid goes down, I don't have fuel. fuel cars are the easiest tech to shut down because the grid is so vulnerable.
 
OM617YOTA said:
Other than some niche applications, PHEV really seems like the worst of both worlds. All the potential little issues of an EV, minus the full EV range, PLUS all the issues of an ICE. Back when EVs only got 70 miles range, having a built in range-extender was a good idea. Now BEVs have enough range that it's not needed.

Only cost makes me consider a PHEV vs. going straight up BEV.
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Yes exactly. And that's what many short sighted consumers don't understand. They just see the initial price and that determines their decision unfortunately. Bev is superior and lower cost long term. I've put almost 200K miles on all my EVs already! And the cost of maintenance is practically zero compared to my gas cars. just no comparison at all.
 
OM617YOTA said:
Other than some niche applications, PHEV really seems like the worst of both worlds. All the potential little issues of an EV, minus the full EV range, PLUS all the issues of an ICE. Back when EVs only got 70 miles range, having a built in range-extender was a good idea. Now BEVs have enough range that it's not needed.

Only cost makes me consider a PHEV vs. going straight up BEV.
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I saw a report that from a Carbon standpoint, PHEV is the best option. Smaller battery, and run most of the time off the smaller battery.
 
Will Prowse said:
I've also been charging EVs in my workshop garage every day for a few years now. I love it. I have three chargers connected depending on what vehicle and where it's parked. If the grid goes down, I don't have fuel. fuel cars are the easiest tech to shut down because the grid is so vulnerable.
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Had that happen here a few years back. Ice storm, six day power outage, several gas stations in the area were down. Even the station that had a backup generator, if you didn't have cash, you were screwed. Internet was down, which meant no processing cards.
 
Will Prowse said:
I've also been charging EVs in my workshop garage every day for a few years now. I love it. I have three chargers connected depending on what vehicle and where it's parked. If the grid goes down, I don't have fuel. fuel cars are the easiest tech to shut down because the grid is so vulnerable.
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Charging is the big issue with the expansion of EV. Putting charging at work locations solves the problem of what to do with excess PV during the day, and eliminates the surge when people plug in at home. However, it costs a lot of money to upgrade the electric lines to handle all that charging. It may reduce the need to add generation, but it doesn't solve the upgrade to the grid problem. A small parking lot of 20 cars with level 2 charging is the equivalent of the power needs of 20 homes.
 
DIYrich said:
Charging is the big issue with the expansion of EV. Putting charging at work locations solves the problem of what to do with excess PV during the day, and eliminates the surge when people plug in at home. However, it costs a lot of money to upgrade the electric lines to handle all that charging. It may reduce the need to add generation, but it doesn't solve the upgrade to the grid problem.
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I solved it by charging off-grid. A distributed generation system is robust.

I wish we could throw some modular reactors and battery systems into every home and it would be perfect.

Really depends on where you live though and how much money you have available. Most Americans drive 30 miles a day. Which in a model three is 8 kWh. Not hard to do at all. My house produces 145kWh a day. 8kWh is nothing. But I do live in Nevada which has tons of sunshine. But that's why I moved here. I wanted to run everything from solar.
 
Will Prowse said:
I solved it by charging off-grid. A distributed generation system is robust.

I wish we could throw some modular reactors and battery systems into every home and it would be perfect.

Really depends on where you live though and how much money you have available. Most Americans drive 30 miles a day. Which in a model three is 8 kWh. Not hard to do at all. My house produces 145kWh a day. 8kWh is nothing. But I do live in Nevada which has tons of sunshine. But that's why I moved here. I wanted to run everything from solar.
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Off-grid distributed generation is difficult in an urban area, and challenging in a suburban area. Across the street from my office is a 200 car, 8 level, parking lot. Good luck with off-grid distributed generation for that. For most suburban locations, roof solar would provide power for the building. A solar covered parking spot might work. You may be able to get 2 panels per spot for 800 watts per car. Maybe 4kWh of charging during work. Enough to get you home, maybe.
 
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