Let me help you. Noone wants to read your posts when they are full of fallacies
Off topic, EV vehicle opinions…
- Thread starter Supervstech
- Start date
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,045
"The fun thing is when the car burns is you loose everything, no steering, no brakes, not even the Ebrake. It is ALL computer controlled. ...
I don't generally see PURE gas cars just bursting into flames, hybrids and pure electric yes."
Oh. I thought you were saying electric cars had steering and brakes under computer control.
I looked up Tesla as the most common example, and found examples of electric disk brakes, and some interference with steering.
What about a gas power patrol vehicle causes loss of steering and brakes during a fire?
What causes loss of emergency brake?
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Be dismissive! This is the best choice when you don't have receipts, nor a counter argument. You take the other persons argument and dismiss it as if it has no merit. . . Especially effective if you are an 'expert' in the field:
Jason S, was the straw that broke the camels back in the Crown Vic saga, again I've met the man, really nice guy. The problem with young people is they haven't lived long enough to see 10 year and up trends and events. Hence we shall all melt because it's been slightly warmer the past few years.
Government data show gasoline vehicles are up to 100x more prone to fires than EVs
Aside from the argument that gasoline vehicles operate via combustion, a study shows how prevalent gas vehicle fires are compared to EVs.
electrek.co
It's the big picture thing. People only tend to look at what is directly around them, especially young people with no life experience. Then it tends to get sensationalized if it's a new technology or a publicly used bit of infrastructure. Again, no receipts given to support your argument. How many people have been killed or injured because their EV burned and they lost their brakes? One? Two? 200? I personally have completely lost the brakes in my cars twice over the last 40 years, neither time was in my EV's, thus I can conclude that only ICE vehicles suffer from brake loss? Hmmm.
I don't "GENERALLY" see pure BEV cars just bursting into flames. Point in fact, I've actually never seen a BEV burst into flames. I have seen more than one ICE vehicle catch fire. I've even given someone a ride who's vehicle caught fire on the side of a road and helped get their stuff out and go get help. (Before cell phones, he was freaking out about his guitar in the back). I therefore conclude only ICE vehicles catch fire.
Anecdotal is anecdotal. Might show something, might not. Worth looking at on a larger scale, bring receipts to an argument.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Propaganda is always accurate. That is why it is often effective when not examined in full context. It's the conclusions that are the problem. Evil people do evil things, look here is an evil thing an evil person is doing (true/factual). Therefore all people are evil.
That could not be any more funny if you tried.
Funny you know they are full of fallacies when you don't read them.
Let me guess you never read the book they want to ban, but you are all for banning it.
There are people that read, do and learn for themselves, then there are people like you that just swallow what you are told to swallow.
These are pure gas cars, it is a known issue with the ford SUV police package.
I am not sure if it is because of the abuse the cars get here or just what. It has not been good.
The engines just "let go". And generally there is a fire from hot oil on exhaust, the fuel rail usually does not go till you can get slowed down. It has never happened to me personally, but I work with people who it has happened to.
fromport
Solar Addict
Be dismissive! This is the best choice when you don't have receipts, nor a counter argument. You take the other persons argument and dismiss it as if it has no merit. . . Especially effective if you are an 'expert' in the field:
Jason S, was the straw that broke the camels back in the Crown Vic saga, again I've met the man, really nice guy. The problem with young people is they haven't lived long enough to see 10 year and up trends and events. Hence we shall all melt because it's been slightly warmer the past few years.
Government data show gasoline vehicles are up to 100x more prone to fires than EVs
Aside from the argument that gasoline vehicles operate via combustion, a study shows how prevalent gas vehicle fires are compared to EVs.
It's the big picture thing. People only tend to look at what is directly around them, especially young people with no life experience. Then it tends to get sensationalized if it's a new technology or a publicly used bit of infrastructure. Again, no receipts given to support your argument. How many people have been killed or injured because their EV burned and they lost their brakes? One? Two? 200? I personally have completely lost the brakes in my cars twice over the last 40 years, neither time was in my EV's, thus I can conclude that only ICE vehicles suffer from brake loss? Hmmm.
I don't "GENERALLY" see pure BEV cars just bursting into flames. Point in fact, I've actually never seen a BEV burst into flames. I have seen more than one ICE vehicle catch fire. I've even given someone a ride who's vehicle caught fire on the side of a road and helped get their stuff out and go get help. (Before cell phones, he was freaking out about his guitar in the back). I therefore conclude only ICE vehicles catch fire.
Anecdotal is anecdotal. Might show something, might not. Worth looking at on a larger scale, bring receipts to an argument.
Again this is HIT. I am talking just hauling ass down the road and.....what is that glow.....am I on fire? Oh beep
When is it propaganda? When it agrees with you position or when it does not.
Look into china's activity in Africa, look into how their "loans" are done all the way around. Look at the working conditions. I do warn you however you will have issues finding it if you rely on google and CNN. You will need to visit "alt" news sources, as they show what the world does not want you to see. This is why you never see a single thing about the farmer riots in europe, fresh water issues in south africa and policies behind it. That "news" is not good for you to know.
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
I work in the automotive supply chain...
We purchase a raw material from India.
Each box weighs around 300# and gets packed on a container ship.
We (my loader) struggles to unload them with a lift truck and hydraulic clamp...
My operators complain the boxes are hard to manage using conveyor tracks and rolling carts...
I found it in a meeting with the supplier today all the boxes are loaded into the container by hand, stacked 3 levels high.
I thought to myself; us lazy Americans, talk about slave labor....
The material ends up in an EV and regular vehicle.
I want an EV.
We purchase a raw material from India.
Each box weighs around 300# and gets packed on a container ship.
We (my loader) struggles to unload them with a lift truck and hydraulic clamp...
My operators complain the boxes are hard to manage using conveyor tracks and rolling carts...
I found it in a meeting with the supplier today all the boxes are loaded into the container by hand, stacked 3 levels high.
I thought to myself; us lazy Americans, talk about slave labor....
The material ends up in an EV and regular vehicle.
I want an EV.
Not that you will read any of it.
And is it not interesting I can post the source and you can't. Here are things from all manner of sources, it is not hard to find.
What NONE of them talk about is just what percentage of the sales are to .gov, where there is pretty much a EV and nothing else policy in place, and we see how well that works with the london busses.
Car sales in Europe decline: Is the future of electric cars at stake?
In March, car sales in the EU registered a decline with consumer behaviour trends shifting.
www.euronews.com
Europe Car Sales Drop in March as EV Weakness Persists
Passenger-car sales in Europe fell 2.8% in March as automakers including Volkswagen AG and Stellantis NV faced weaker demand, particularly for electric vehicles.
www.bloomberg.com
Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol
Sales of Volkswagen electric cars have plunged by almost a quarter in Europe as demand for battery-powered vehicles stalls and buyers return to petrol.
Attachments
fromport
Solar Addict
The new Tesla CyberTruck has steer-by-wire.
For more info:
A Deep Dive into Tesla Cybertruck's Steering-by-Wire and Rear-Wheel Steering
Explore groundbreaking steering technologies of Tesla's Cybertruck, including revolutionary steer-by-wire system and rear-wheel steering.
e-vehicleinfo.com
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svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
With triple redundancy backup according to Sandy Monroe's tear down video on it.
Got a chuckle out of @Hedges post on EV's losing control because of a fire... my first thought was "why would you be driving a car when it's on fire?"
There was also an inaccuracy... ICE vehicles catch fire faster and more likely to explode. EV packs start with a short and a small fire, that fire heats up nearby cells causing them to catch and fire and so, it takes a lot longer for an EV fire to become deadly from what I know. With gas, any old spark can do it. NHTSA's mission is making every generation of vehicle safer, not just EVs.
Comprehensive data now shows EVs are much less likely to burst into flames than internal combustion engine vehicles,
ICE fires 4 to 5 time more likely than EV
They are setting themselves up to become next rulers. Slavery is not a white invention. It was multi racial and culture .. present communist want to lay all slavery on just whites because it can be used as weapon to take from whites and shame them into allowing it. Make victims.
Korean kids in public schools were often beaten black and blue by parents. Raised rough.
Shit my mom and dad were strict too. Dad was predictable-belt but mom would go crazy.
Those videos mean more if we knew the complete details… the less details the more viral they go. Crazy.
Rich arabs in middle use to hire foreign nanny to raise children and beat them too. Crazy world. Again not just whites which in this country get blamed.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,045
Well, I do prefer to safely slow down and pull off the freeway when my car is on fire, rather than tucking and rolling in the #2 lane at 65 mph.
Since when do ICE vehicles "explode"?
I think worst scenario is crash ruptures tank into passenger compartment, but not "explode"
Why Cars Explode Into Fireballs And Why They Usually Don't
Last week, noted journalist Michael Hastings was killed in a tragic and dramatic car crash that ended with his new Mercedes-Benz burning in a massive fireball. The intensity of the conflagration have made many people suspicious about the wreck. We asked our physicist.
jalopnik.com
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Thank you! Hasn't happened to me yet. Lucky I guess.
Well, your reference explains why they explode into fireballs... so I guess it's been a thing for a while. I do remember the Pinto was pretty prone to that. Think the NHTSA fixed most of those issues because other than movies you don't see/hear much about them exploding anymore.
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ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
TLDR;
It's propaganda when the only facts presented are those that support your argument, ignoring the ones that do not, thus implying that the entire system operates this way.
Rare metals are mined in Africa (see also: Blood Diamonds) by unscrupulous people. These metals are used primarily in the production of batteries, used in EV's and solar systems. Therefore buying solar batteries and EV's is evil because the production is dependent on unscrupulously sourced material. Therefore we need to ban EV's and solar systems.
The problem is ALL rare metals are not mined by unscrupulous people, nor are all the materials used in the production of these products sourced from unscrupulous sources (Nor do all diamond rings contain blood diamonds, but don't get me started on DeBeers). There is obviously a problem with some of the mining techniques and labor used in third world countries. Based on your arguments this is the norm, not the exception. You have provided no statistics about all the places where the materials in question are sourced. The solution to the mining/labor problem is not to ban the products that use the material, it's to improve the mining techniques, and create safer labor conditions.
This is a classic use of propaganda followed up with a straw-man. You associate problems in the supply chain that have a high emotional index that factually represent an unknown portion of the chain because it's something you don't like. That's propaganda. It's absolutely true and documented this stuff happens. There will always be disparities in the way the world produces high demand resources. Until the markets stabilize it probably will not get any better. Then you use that high emotional index factual propaganda, to prop up the 'straw-man' argument that EV's are evil because something used in making them may have been sourced (implication is always sourced) by less than honorable means. A straw-man argument is when you use an adjacent (sometimes totally unrelated, generally high emotional index) issue to support your point of view.
Like the spontaneously exploding EV's (See also: spontaneous human combustion) you have to look up ALL the facts around your arguments. I see no references to anything in the non-ev supply chain. So what you are saying is only EV's have unscrupulously sourced parts and materials? I'm sure we can all get behind that one, the ICE supply chain is pristine all the way back. . . And what exactly does that have to do with the viability of the technology? Are you saying it is impossible to produce an EV without using African slave labor to mine the materials? The straw-man is on the African labor post.
Further, it always frustrates me when people talk about "living wages" in third world countries, where something opens up that pays $50/day to the local labor, and we want to shut it down because it's not a "living wage". I mean $0/day is better than $50/day right? Not only that they have literally thousands of people lined up to apply for 100 jobs, because they don't live in mom and dads basement while they find themselves with $100K in student loan debt and no job. What may seem like slave labor to you or me might be a ticket out of starvation for someone else. It's not up to me or the US to improve the conditions in Africa. It's up to the people that live there. They have the government they deserve.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Technically correct. An 'explosion' implies rupturing a containment, fuel tank ruptures that leak fuel that ignite later are not contained, they just burn very rapidly over a wide area . . ."whoosh" Thermal runaway in a battery causes a containment loss, thus an 'explosion'. Cars generally don't 'explode' they just catch fire and start burning the surrounding materials.Since when do ICE vehicles "explode"?
I think worst scenario is crash ruptures tank into passenger compartment, but not "explode"
Why Cars Explode Into Fireballs And Why They Usually Don't
Last week, noted journalist Michael Hastings was killed in a tragic and dramatic car crash that ended with his new Mercedes-Benz burning in a massive fireball. The intensity of the conflagration have made many people suspicious about the wreck. We asked our physicist.
Explode = rapid expansion within an containment causing a violent rupturing of the container. (See also: claymore mine)
