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Does Victron make a 5kVA inverter without a charger?

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oceanrider

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As I will be often charging the two 48v SOK batteries with a generator a dedicated charger separate of the inverter seems best from what I gather. So with the 48v Multiplus II 3kVA or 5kVA, I was told the EG4 Chargeverter GC – 48V 100A Battery Charger would be best for my application. But it seems a waste to also have to have the charger in the Multiplus II which I think would not get used?

I really need/want fast charging ability. And was told a separate charger is best for charging with a generator.

Is there a way to have a quality Victron inverter and a separate fast charger only?
 
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The largest they make in 120V is 3kVA, and their inverters often cost a touch more than their inverter/chargers in the same power range.

Did the person that told you that want to sell you a Chargeverter? Do you know why the Chargeverter exists? It's because most Voltronics-type AiO handle generator power very poorly, and do not charge reliably unless you are using an inverter generator or grid.

What is your motivation for "fast charging?" It is purely to have minimum generator run time? While your batteries have a max charge current of 100A ea, they have a recommended charge of 63A.

MP-II 5kVA charges at 70A. that means your batteries can be fully charged in < 3h.

Additionally, if you plan to have closed loop comms with your batteries, the MP-II charger can be managed by the battery where a chargeverter would be unmanaged.
 
oceanrider said:
As I will be often charging the two 48v SOK batteries with a generator a dedicated charger separate of the inverter seems best from what I gather. So with the 48v Multiplus II 3kVA or 5kVA, I was told the EG4 Chargeverter GC – 48V 100A Battery Charger would be best for my application. But it seems a waste to also have to have the charger in the Multiplus II which I think would not get used?

I really need/want fast charging ability. And was told a separate charger is best for charging with a generator.

Is there a way to have a quality Victron inverter and a separate fast charger only?
Click to expand...
I would stick with multiplus II as they have the integrated transfer switches etc, feed the generator into that. 70A versus 100A not a huge difference.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
The largest they make in 120V is 3kVA, and their inverters often cost a touch more than their inverter/chargers in the same power range.

Did the person that told you that want to sell you a Chargeverter? Do you know why the Chargeverter exists? It's because most Voltronics-type AiO handle generator power very poorly, and do not charge reliably unless you are using an inverter generator or grid.

What is your motivation for "fast charging?" It is purely to have minimum generator run time? While your batteries have a max charge current of 100A ea, they have a recommended charge of 63A.

MP-II 5kVA charges at 70A. that means your batteries can be fully charged in < 3h.

Additionally, if you plan to have closed loop comms with your batteries, the MP-II charger can be managed by the battery where a chargeverter would be unmanaged.
Click to expand...
I am putting together a mobile workshop. But my van needs to be parked off HOA grounds before 12 midnight. So I will need a fast charger so I can charge up the batteries prior to the next day of work. So get home, fast charge and park the van out of the community before going to bed.

I was just thinking it seems a waste to have two chargers, that's all. Oh, and I will want to have the ability to charge by generator if need be, so want a chargeverter for that, for sure.

And having a 100 amp charger built into the system why would I ever want or need to use the MP-II charger, ever?

Still trying to learn and figure this all out.
 
oceanrider said:
As I will be often charging the two 48v SOK batteries with a generator a dedicated charger separate of the inverter seems best from what I gather. So with the 48v Multiplus II 3kVA or 5kVA, I was told the EG4 Chargeverter GC – 48V 100A Battery Charger would be best for my application. But it seems a waste to also have to have the charger in the Multiplus II which I think would not get used?

I really need/want fast charging ability. And was told a separate charger is best for charging with a generator.

Is there a way to have a quality Victron inverter and a separate fast charger only?
Click to expand...
Most inverters that integrate charging as well do so through reversing the inverter components, it’s not like there is a separate charger built into the unit you wouldn’t be using…

If you don’t wanna use it, don’t…
 
Once in a while is OK but in the long term, fast charging is not great for the batteries.

How long is the commute? Can you take advantage of the alternator to put some charge into the batteries?
 
oceanrider said:
I am putting together a mobile workshop. But my van needs to be parked off HOA grounds before 12 midnight. So I will need a fast charger so I can charge up the batteries prior to the next day of work. So get home, fast charge and park the van out of the community before going to bed.

I was just thinking it seems a waste to have two chargers, that's all.
Click to expand...

Generally agree. Again, a 5kVA MP-II can charge at 70A. That means you could charge your batteries from dead empty in < 3 hours. Chargeverter will be able to do it in about 2.

If fast charging is TRULY needed, the two together will get you charged in a bit over an hour.

oceanrider said:
Oh, and I will want to have the ability to charge by generator if need be, so want a chargeverter for that, for sure.
Click to expand...

Your thinking is not correct. If you have a MP-II, or any other Victron inverter/charger, you will be able to charge from generator. The chargeverter exists because of a deficiency in OTHER products, not Victron. Victron chargers gobble up dirty generator power with no issues and can be configured to be even more tolerant.

oceanrider said:
Still trying to learn and figure this all out.
Click to expand...

The process never ends. :)
 
oceanrider said:
I am putting together a mobile workshop. But my van needs to be parked off HOA grounds before 12 midnight. So I will need a fast charger so I can charge up the batteries prior to the next day of work. So get home, fast charge and park the van out of the community before going to bed.

I was just thinking it seems a waste to have two chargers, that's all. Oh, and I will want to have the ability to charge by generator if need be, so want a chargeverter for that, for sure.

And having a 100 amp charger built into the system why would I ever want or need to use the MP-II charger, ever?

Still trying to learn and figure this all out.
Click to expand...
OK I think previously you were considering a multiplus II 3kVA with 35A charge rate and I had suggested a chargeverter for your HOA time limited charge window. But with the 70A charge rating of the 5kVA model I wouldn't worry about the chargeverter.
 
Q-Dog said:
Once in a while is OK but in the long term, fast charging is not great for the batteries.

How long is the commute? Can you take advantage of the alternator to put some charge into the batteries?
Click to expand...
Regrettably not long typically anywhere from 15 to 40 minutes one way. I don't want to add another alternator and would think my current one is only 12v.

I've read up on this EV4 charger and I can set the charging output to the 48v SOK battery. I've probably typically got 4-6 hours available of charging time and maybe 2-3 in the morning sometimes before i would need to park the van for the night away from charging capability. But late afternoon to 12 midnight but would rather 10-11pm be the latest to park my van away from charging for the night. So typically, anywhere from 4-6hrs of charge time for the two SOK 48v batteries I want to use.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Generally agree. Again, a 5kVA MP-II can charge at 70A. That means you could charge your batteries from dead empty in < 3 hours. Chargeverter will be able to do it in about 2.

If fast charging is TRULY needed, the two together will get you charged in a bit over an hour.



Your thinking is not correct. If you have a MP-II, or any other Victron inverter/charger, you will be able to charge from generator. The chargeverter exists because of a deficiency in OTHER products, not Victron. Victron chargers gobble up dirty generator power with no issues and can be configured to be even more tolerant.



The process never ends. :)
Click to expand...
I did not know this about Victron. Thanks!
 
Brucey said:
OK I think previously you were considering a multiplus II 3kVA with 35A charge rate and I had suggested a chargeverter for your HOA time limited charge window. But with the 70A charge rating of the 5kVA model I wouldn't worry about the chargeverter.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Buying the 5kVA would do two things, give me more capabilities, output wise, and then be able to charge via shore power or generator faster. Still learning. Thanks again!

Would shore power be limited to 120v only and would that still be fast for two SOK batteries. I do have 220 available. Could I wire the system up to use either?

Can you adjust the charging output of the MP-II, or is it automatic only
 
I have a Victron Phoenix 48/5000 inverter, I’m not sure if they make one suitable for 120V. I didn’t need the charger, and it was cheaper than the Multiplus.
 
toms said:
I have a Victron Phoenix 48/5000 inverter, I’m not sure if they make one suitable for 120V. I didn’t need the charger, and it was cheaper than the Multiplus.
Click to expand...
Thanks Tom, I need the charger, but from my quick reading of the generic MultiPlus II manual that looks like it covers all MP-II models, I think only 120vac input for charging
 
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oceanrider said:
Thanks! Buying the 5kVA would do two things, give me more capabilities, output wise, and then be able to charge via shore power or generator faster. Still learning. Thanks again!

Would shore power be limited to 120v only and would that still be fast for two SOK batteries. I do have 220 available. Could I wire the system up to use either?

Can you adjust the charging output of the MP-II, or is it automatic only
Click to expand...

120V input/output only.

You can adjust both input AC allowance and charging output. I prefer to leave output at max and just change the input, i.e., if you just have a 15A plug available, you can set it to 15A input, and it will only use as much charging as it takes to draw 15A input.

toms said:
I have a Victron Phoenix 48/5000 inverter, I’m not sure if they make one suitable for 120V. I didn’t need the charger, and it was cheaper than the Multiplus.
Click to expand...

Nope. 3kVA max, and it prices are pretty much at parity. I think you folks in the 230V world get to pay a little less than we do... :p
 
oceanrider said:
Thanks! Buying the 5kVA would do two things, give me more capabilities, output wise, and then be able to charge via shore power or generator faster. Still learning. Thanks again!

Would shore power be limited to 120v only and would that still be fast for two SOK batteries. I do have 220 available. Could I wire the system up to use either?

Can you adjust the charging output of the MP-II, or is it automatic only
Click to expand...
It would be limited to 120V.

You can adjust the charging output of the mp2.

Here are the AC wiring recommendations:

Screenshot_20240505_205019_Samsung Notes.jpg
 
sunshine_eggo said:
120V input/output only.

You can adjust both input AC allowance and charging output. I prefer to leave output at max and just change the input, i.e., if you just have a 15A plug available, you can set it to 15A input, and it will only use as much charging as it takes to draw 15A input.



Nope. 3kVA max, and it prices are pretty much at parity. I think you folks in the 230V world get to pay a little less than we do... :p
Click to expand...
Looks like they've also got "smart" versions of the Phoenix in 230V land, with same look as mp2s and quattro 2s.

Screenshot_20240505_204300_Samsung Notes.jpg
 
Brucey said:
Looks like they've also got "smart" versions of the Phoenix in 230V land, with same look as mp2s and quattro 2s.

View attachment 213582
Click to expand...
Brucey,
You've been very helpful and I'm learning a lot. But still trying to wrap my head around this. It seems a 5kVA MP-II would be my better option over buying the 3kVA and an additional charger. I would get the ability for more output if needed and a faster charger. I just need to be able to charge at home faster than what the 3kVA can do. But since I can only use 120vac at home with the 5kVA, can the 5kVA really charge that much faster than the 3kVA using only 120vac? Also can I hook only one 100ah battery to the 5kVA MP-II? In the specs for the 5kVA? And according to other post is seems generator charging is not an issue with the Victron. There was another poster that said fast charging it not the best for the batteries.
Thanks!
 
oceanrider said:
Brucey,
You've been very helpful and I'm learning a lot. But still trying to wrap my head around this. It seems a 5kVA MP-II would be my better option over buying the 3kVA and an additional charger. I would get the ability for more output if needed and a faster charger. I just need to be able to charge at home faster than what the 3kVA can do. But since I can only use 120vac at home with the 5kVA, can the 5kVA really charge that much faster than the 3kVA using only 120vac? Also can I hook only one 100ah battery to the 5kVA MP-II? In the specs for the 5kVA? And according to other post is seems generator charging is not an issue with the Victron. There was another poster that said fast charging it not the best for the batteries.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
The 3kVA has a 35A charger. it can charge at a max of 35A at your batteries bulk rate (say 56V).

The 5kVA has a 70A charger. so it can charge your batteries at twice the speed of the 3kVA. It will pull more from its AC input as a result.

Yes a single 100Ah can be used, but be aware that a surge load on the 5kVA could exceed the batteries BMS current draw limits (prob 100A for a 100Ah battery) and cause the battery BMS to disconnect.

So usually a vendor will suggest say 30A per battery for everyday charge rate to optimize lifecycle count. But personally if you need to charge faster, then give it what you need to get it charged up and then parked at curbside so you can get to sleep. I have a Delta 2 max. I can throttle it down to charge at 200W, I can also ramp it up to charge at over 2.2kW. It has a 2kWh battery. If I have the time I'll charge it slow, if I need to charge it up so I can use it outside for a task I'll take it to max. Ultimately we can use our batteries to get work done or perhaps treat them like show princesses and take it easy. Either way calendar aging will prob degrade them first.
 
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