AgroVenturesPeru
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That sounds logical.
Wouldn't thin, loose strands of copper be subjected to breakage under enough applied pressure? Better to cold weld them together in a ferrule me thinks.
Source to buy quality wire ferrules?
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Wouldn't thin, loose strands of copper be subjected to breakage under enough applied pressure? Better to cold weld them together in a ferrule me thinks.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Here's how I see it. This is a preponderance of the evidence situation:
1) The MPPT manual expressly states to use a fine strand wire with no mention of ferrules.
2) Guy says, no ferrules specifically on MPPT.
3) Video showing a Victron rep inserting fine stranded wire (not overwhelming evidence)
4) Given how the terminal works, I'm 100% certain that you get less contact area with a ferrule vs. a proper fine strand wire.
The Victron evidence to the contrary is a general statement about ferrule use in a general guide.
3.5 against ferrules
1 kinda for ferrules
Bluedog225
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Another view.
One officially published statement from Victron.
Versus some other informal stuff.
1 to 0.
Published documentation wins.
And I got the doc from a forum authority on Victron.
One officially published statement from Victron.
Versus some other informal stuff.
1 to 0.
Published documentation wins.
And I got the doc from a forum authority on Victron.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Disagree.
One is a general guide that "highly recommends" and is also ambiguous AND context specific:
"Highly recommended" isn't mandatory.
Subsequent statement is ambiguous and context specific. They make an absolute statement; however, the use of "especially" indicates it's optional. Then they go on to discuss a specific type of connection where ferrule use is critical. NOTE: While these terminals have a screw, they are not "screw connectors".
AND THEN, they literally give instruction on how to insert a wire into a push connector WITHOUT A FERRULE!
The other is the manual specific to the component in question.
This is a singular directive with no option. If you use ferrules, you violate the directive.
If you use solid, you violate.
If you use coarse, you violate.
If you use rigid, you violate.
If you use ferrules, you violate.
Directive is repeated in the safety precautions link:
I don't think the directive to, "Use flexible, multi-stranded copper," precludes the use of ferrules. If they didn't want ferrules used, it would have been spelled out in the directives. Ferrules are optional, but highly recommended.
Bluedog225
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Exactly. The wire type spec does not give any guidance on ferrules.
6
629658
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I used ferrules on my mppt’s no issues so far 6 months now
Bluedog225
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And push connectors are a different thing altogether. Fine stranded wire is particularly well suited to, and benefits from, ferrule use.
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629658
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I bought my ferrules and crimper on Amazon.
AgroVenturesPeru
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I used ferrules, but then again, my MPPT has just about ruined my batteries' ability to recharge themselves.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Guy is responsible in large part for the Victron documentation. If he's telling me something is wrong in the documentation, or it needs to be updated, I'm going to listen.
Worth nothing that I too value VWE as it's the 5th link in my sig and has been for a long time, but the doc itself indicates that it's intended as a guide.
Worth nothing that I too value VWE as it's the 5th link in my sig and has been for a long time, but the doc itself indicates that it's intended as a guide.
Bluedog225
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I may have to create an account and get to know Guy Stewart. Particularly interested in background and training. Looks like he is an installer for Rainbow Power Company in Australia. On the other hand, Margreet Leeftink was a Victron “service engineer.” Not sure if that implies an engineering degree.
Here’s an interesting and pretty balanced discussion of the topic.
Here’s an interesting and pretty balanced discussion of the topic.
These days, the title "engineer" gets thrown around to anyone that can rub two brains cells together. Heck, my title might be Principle Software Engineer right now. I don't keep track of my title so I'm not really sure. It used to be that to have an "engineer" title you had to be an actual engineer with a license from a state board.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
He's been a Victron employee for at least 5 years.
Join the Victron Professional site. He does a lot of the training videos.
professional.victronenergy.com
If you work for Victron and are on Community, you get:
What does this link tell you?
www.victronenergy.com
Join the Victron Professional site. He does a lot of the training videos.
Victron Energy - Victron Professional
professional.victronenergy.com
If you work for Victron and are on Community, you get:
What does this link tell you?
Wiring Unlimited - Victron Energy
Wiring Unlimited is now available! Download it for free here: Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf What is Wiring Unlimited? A Victron Energy book by Margreet Leeftink, Information Developer for Victron Energy B.V. Wiring Unlimited is all about electrical wiring of systems containing batteries, inverters...
www.victronenergy.com
Bluedog225
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I appreciate you chiming in Brad.
Is that across the board or dependent on the clamp mechanism in this charge controller?
I was under the impression that there was an advantage to the ferrule with some connection types.
Is that across the board or dependent on the clamp mechanism in this charge controller?
I was under the impression that there was an advantage to the ferrule with some connection types.
AlaskanNoob
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That AlaskanNoob guy....shining light through ignorance yet again.
Guy said he was going to come up with a better explanation so hopefully he's working on some documentation.
Guy said he was going to come up with a better explanation so hopefully he's working on some documentation.
AgroVenturesPeru
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OP, please note the tongue-in-cheek nature of this post. The ferrules most likely have nothing to do with the problem I'm having.
Sure there are but not with the type of connections we have with the Victron solar controllers and DC to DC converters.
The Luxpower 12k inverter manual specifically says to use wire ferrules on the MPPT terminal connections. these connections are close together in space and I assume they want to reduce the risk of ARCing. However, the battery terminals do not say to use ferrules, but the fine stranded wire is compression screwed, not using a hole through lug for the connection.What's a ferrule?
Seriously , I would never consider using ferrules on the MPPT. I don't know the name for those types of terminals, but they effectively maximize contact area between the terminal and stranded wire. Putting a ferrule in them would reduce contact area.
1.2. Wiring safety precautions • Use flexible multi-stranded copper cable for the battery and PV connections. • The diameter of the individual strand of the cable used should not exceed 0.4mm (0.016 inch) or have a surface area exceeding 0.125mm² (AWG26). • The maximum operating temperature is 90°C (194°F). • • A 25mm² cable, for example, should have at least 196 strands (class 5 or higher stranding according to VDE 0295, IEC 60228 and BS6360). An AWG2 gauge cable should have at least 259/26 stranding (259 strands of AWG26). Example of suitable cable: class 5 “Tri-rated” cable (it has three approvals: American (UL), Canadian (CSA) and British (BS)). • In case of thicker strands the contact area will be too small and the resulting high contact resistance will cause severe overheating, eventually resulting in fire. See below figure for examples of what cable to use and not to use.
View attachment 142745
I would say this is consistent with Guy's assertion.
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