diy solar

diy solar

States/Cities Attempting To Limit You Self Produced Power...

NCislander said:
Exactly...? Stealth Camo Panels? I'd like to see those. Stealthy maybe, Productive probably not so much. Satellites see most everything.
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I am poking fun at the idea we may actually need to hide our solar in the first place, it is so rediculous, and yet here we are discussing rules/laws/regulations that could in fact lead to 'the man' scouring the countryside with satelites to identify rouge solar operations and shut them down. I mean, really?
I am pretty sure, this is anti-freedom, and although may be disguised as 'for the good of' 'for safety' or 'to be fair to others' - I don't buy it.
We have all seen the video of the LiFePO4 cell that smokes out the guys' garage, but never catches fire. - seems pretty safe to me, and glad I put my batteries in a separate metal building, - the point - the batteries do not seem to be much of a hazard. PV, rapid shut down, Arc fault shut downs, class-T fuses okay we have a lot of built in safey going on here. I think my welding and Oxy-Act set ups are about 1,000,000x more of a hazard then my solar; but no one says I can't weld, or cut steel.
The percentage of homes completely off grid in Canada/USA is very low, maybe 0.05% and the number of homes with both solar and utility, and using both is considerably more, but no where near where Australia is, or parts of the EU, it will take decades to catch up to them at the rate we are going. Are they putting a fix to a problem that doesn't exist? Are PUC/corporate utilitiy providers flexing their control, taking advantage, looking for an easy buck, putting rules in place to slow the growth of home solar, - you decide.

Should you have the right to collect the sunshine that hits your property - I say yes.
Should you have the right to recklessly endanger your neighbour - I say no.
Should you have the right to tell the utility - whether public or private - "no thanks I don't need your service" - I say yes.
If many many homes tell the utility 'no thanks' does this automatically mean we "Owe them" for their failed investment - I say no.
We started this thread with the idea the State or local gov would/could limit your production:
Should the local utility - whether public or private - be forced to buy all my/our excess production - I say no.
They should be able to limit inputs, and controll the overall system, sure, but not 'tax' how many PV panels are installed on my/our properties, not limit our own production for our own uses, that is none of their concern as long as we are responsible, ie not endangering our neighbours.
Rant over, please return to your regularly scheduled postings.
 
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OffGridForGood said:
I am poking fun at the idea we may actually need to hide our solar in the first place, it is so rediculous, and yet here we are discussing rules/laws/regulations that could in fact lead to 'the man' scouring the countryside with satelites to identify rouge solar operations and shut them down. I mean, really?
I am pretty sure, this is anti-freedom, and although may be disguised as 'for the good of' 'for safety' or 'to be fair to others' - I don't buy it.
We have all seen the video of the LiFePO4 cell that smokes out the guys' garage, but never catches fire. - seems pretty safe to me, and glad I put my batteries in a separate metal building, - the point - the batteries do not seem to be much of a hazard. PV, rapid shut down, Arc fault shut downs, class-T fuses okay we have a lot of built in safey going on here. I think my welding and Oxy-Act set ups are about 1,000,000x more of a hazard then my solar; but no one says I can't weld, or cut steel.
The percentage of homes completely off grid in Canada/USA is very low, maybe 0.05% and the number of homes with both solar and utility, and using both is considerably more, but no where near where Australia is, or parts of the EU, it will take decades to catch up to them at the rate we are going. Are they putting a fix to a problem that doesn't exist? Are PUC/corporate utilitiy providers flexing their control, taking advantage, looking for an easy buck, putting rules in place to slow the growth of home solar, - you decide.

Should you have the right to collect the sunshine that hits your property - I say yes.
Should you have the right to recklessly endanger your neighbour - I say no.
Should you have the right to tell the utility - whether public or private - "no thanks I don't need your service" - I say yes.
If many many homes tell the utility 'no thanks' does this automatically mean we "Own them" for their failed investment - I say no.
We started this thread with the idea the State or local gov would/could limit your production:
Should the local utility - whether public or private - be forced to buy all my/our excess production - I say no.
They should be able to limit inputs, and controll the overall system, sure, but not 'tax' how many PV panels are installed on my/our properties, not limit our own production for our own uses, that is none of their concern as long as we are responsible, ie not endangering our neighbours.
Rant over, please return to your regularly scheduled postings.
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I don't see a single thing here I disagree with. Unfortunately, the voice of reasonable people is not often in the majority. Or at least it sure feels that way.
 
NCislander said:
Exactly...? Stealth Camo Panels? I'd like to see those. Stealthy maybe, Productive probably not so much. Satellites see most everything.
Click to expand...

Maybe stealth panels might be useful to hide your installation from roaming bands of thugs during the apocalypse. They likely would not be using satellites, but plain vision or binoculars. :ROFLMAO:

I reckon that in a world without electricity, property with working solar systems and all the creature comforts that provides will be quite valuable.. and very difficult to defend even for the craziest amongst us.
 
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EastTexCowboy said:
I don't see a single thing here I disagree with. Unfortunately, the voice of reasonable people is not often in the majority. Or at least it sure feels that way.
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Yes, sure seems that way ETC, I guess we just don't have the budget for our own lobby groups, or large enough political donations for them to hear us.
When "money" became "speech" our voices got drowned out.
 
EastTexCowboy said:
I don't see a single thing here I disagree with. Unfortunately, the voice of reasonable people is not often in the majority. Or at least it sure feels that way.
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It doesn't help when reasonable people disagree on talking point issues like guns/abortion/lbgtqia/etc.. and then completely shut down all discussion on that and everything else with zero compromise ever. If we take hard moral / religion driven for and against stances on things, reasonableness will never even get to the table.
 
cs1234 said:
It doesn't help when reasonable people disagree on talking point issues like guns/abortion/lbgtqia/etc.. and then completely shut down all discussion on that and everything else with zero compromise ever. If we take hard moral / religion driven for and against stances on things, reasonableness will never even get to the table.
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I'm a middle of the road guy on most things and willing to compromise but almost everyone has topics where they feel they have to make a stand. The problem with compromise is that it can gradually erode what we feel are our rights, but without compromise nothing ever happens. So yeah, it's a conundrum.

A couple things I've noticed from observation but also from dealing with a lot of government entities most of my business life is that they are in it for the long haul and they take the path of least resistance. Ergo, grandfathering. By grandfathering existing people, no matter what the subject, they eliminate a lot of pushback because those people aren't as threatened. Using solar at the subject, if all your install is grandfathered then you've got yours and may not be as inclined to argue against them. The people who haven't even thought about solar yet aren't likely to argue against them. So they tax or regulate the use the sun and they get some money going forward and not many even notice and eventually all of us with grandfathered systems go away. They don't care because they can wait and they will eventually bring everyone under their governmental umbrella.

The "they" in my scenario is not a generalized "big brother" but any number of taxing or regulatory entities. It can be the local POCO or even ah HOA but the ones with more impact are municipal and state government. I truly believe most of the people involved bear no ill will and really think they're trying to do the right thing. I look at property taxes here in Texas, which are atrocious and appraisals just went up 40% this year. You may be able to protest and they throw you a bone and reduce yours back to a 20% increase. You feel like you've won and they don't care because eventually they're going to get it back.

Oh man. I didn't mean to rant and yet here I am. Sorry about that. I do try to see both sides as much as I can. But if often feels like the folks I disagree with aren't willing to do the same.

End of rant and hopefully I don't get punished for getting off topic, but it wasn't THAT much off topic. :sneaky:
 
Tulex said:
20 years ago, they were called tin hatters. In the last 5 years, these same people were called preppers. In the next 10 years, these same people will be called right.
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A lot of truth in that. The damn Doomsday Prepper show gave preppers a bad name. I think I've been a prepper all my life but then a lot of people are and don't even realize it. Do you keep bandaids in your medicine cabinet? Probably. Why? In case you need them of course. Then you're a prepper.

When the covid thing hit and people were scrambling for everything from TP to food we barely noticed. But living at that time in hurricane alley it only made sense to keep some backup supplies. So most of my friends and business acquaintances thought I had some kind of crystal ball. Nope. I just know that sh*t happens and a little preparation goes a long way in how you weather it. Having a few skills doesn't hurt anything either.
 
Crowz said:
www.solarreviews.com

Guide to Alabama incentives & tax credits in 2024

See how much you can save on home solar panels through rebates & tax credits in Alabama. Here’s the full list of federal, state and utility incentives that apply where you live:
www.solarreviews.com www.solarreviews.com

Previously, the Capacity Reservation Charge was equal to $5.00 per kW of solar on your property. The charge for Alabama Power customers who go solar will now be equal to $5.41 per kW. This doesn’t seem like much, but when you consider the costs over the lifetime of the agreement, it’s a significant financial burden.

Let’s look at an example. The average home in Alabama consumes about 1,236 kilowatt hours (kWh) per month. In order to produce enough electricity to cover this usage, you would need to install a 9.2 kW solar array.

With a 9.2 kW rooftop solar system, you would have to pay $49.77 each month, on top of your regular electricity bill. That’s almost $600 extra a year just for switching to solar!

Over the 25-year lifetime of the solar system, you’ll have paid $15,000 in Capacity Reservation Charges. That’s enough to buy a second solar panel system!

--------

Fun fun.....
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Charging for use of the grid is fair. But charge should not be a tax on PV panels you installed. There should be a charge for kWh used from the grid,, it can be time of use, and there can be a "demand" charge, for instance a fee based on peak kW draw. That would get people who heavily use the grid infrastructure, but only on occasion. Less impact on non PV users who draw power from the grid as originally intended.

This would let PV users who have grid as backup adjust what they owe the utility by being better (steady) or worse (infrequent high surge demand) customers.

A photon tax like Alabama's was tried and dropped in California, but will probably return.
 
Ampster said:
That is the classic death spiral for power companies who have their heads in the sand. They will lose revenue over time because of the economics of solar generation.
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They could take a different approach, the one where they try to use a million homes as a source for peak daily demand, at low cost to them. The idea of an integrated system of home solar and batteries is not a bad idea, it could be very efficient. The guys in South Cali seem to be well placed for this as they have high cost power, and large peak loads that coincide with large solar potential, all with good solar potential.
With solar PV and batteries, a non-sunny day would still have power available. Like replacing Nat.Gas peaker-plants with Solar/battery.
 
JeepHammer said:
So, locally the city has banned off grid.

Some states are limiting the time/use of batteries to offset peak usage.

This is an attempt to keep everyone paying fees to maintain the grid, and to keep profits coming in during winter when demand is lower.

Generally, I stay as far away from legal/political arguments as possible. Complete and total waste of my time/effort and causes a ton of issues with friends/family...

I just helped with a basically off grid system which will still have a $35 a month fee, and taxes to avoid high rates and rate increases. A new garage with solar generation surfaces made him energy independent. Since he can make everything he uses, he doesn't consume from the grid side at all... We are waiting to see what the city does when they realize his consumption is zero.

There are a couple of law suits locally the guys are watching where the system owners are challenging the rules/laws. It's going to take a while (government) so I have no idea how its going to turn out.

The basic challenge is the right to choose fossil fuel vs. renewable energy that doesn't pollute. The right to NOT participate in producing pollution.

The argument is, like some religions are exempt from military service, pacifists in belief, this should be extended to people that don't want to participate in fossil fuel/pollution.

According to the legal eagle types, this is a new legal argument/angle.

If there is a lawyer versed in the area of law this pertains to, then I'd like an educated, non-binding explanation of how this might work in the legal system.
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What location?
 
Kinda reminds me of history. A new industry entered the market and the existing industry already had the funds as well as the connections to politicians. The existing industry saw the threat and wanted all kinds of restrictions placed on the new.
Horse and buggy VS automobile.
 
Hedges said:
Charging for use of the grid is fair. But charge should not be a tax on PV panels you installed. There should be a charge for kWh used from the grid,, it can be time of use, and there can be a "demand" charge, for instance a fee based on peak kW draw. That would get people who heavily use the grid infrastructure, but only on occasion. Less impact on non PV users who draw power from the grid as originally intended.

This would let PV users who have grid as backup adjust what they owe the utility by being better (steady) or worse (infrequent high surge demand) customers.

A photon tax like Alabama's was tried and dropped in California, but will probably return.
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Well that’s one of several reasons why Alabama is off my list as possible new home.
 
Dyotat100 said:
I'm in CA. I started in 2021 experimenting with 12v 280ah battery for my 5th wheel. Realized that 24v would be better. Then I bought some panels and built a rack for 3 405 w panels to experiment with running the house for power outage. Would only be one leg but I could run the house no problem with normal loads.

Power company here turns off the power when the wind blows to hard. Turned us off for almost 48 hrs in March of 2021.

So then I went to 9 panels and 2 24v 280 ah batteries from cells I bought and built. I was able to charge and run everything no problem except had issues starting the dryer with a 3000w victron. This was all just a experiment to see how things would work.

In July of 2022 I put up 20 panels and have 2 6548s with 6 Jakiper rack batteries. I'm able to run my 4 ton AC all day at 70 degrees and at night at 74 degrees. I have added 10 more panels since then.

I have a $10 connection fee every month and use around $2 of electricity. I have my lathe, mill, and welders on the grid. I'm sure i could run them but didn't want the on/off hit the lathe and welder would give. Mill is on 3 phase converter.

The funny thing is that I get 2 climate credits a year and basically spend less then $50 a year on electricity. Last one was $71 and that gets me 5 months.

The only time I have used grid was New Years eve. We had a lot of rain out here and I finally hit 50 v at 8:30 pm. It switched over and at 8 am it switched back.

I have had only one issue with my setup. Because my panels are 50.1v and 6548 is 250v I had 2 shut downs. One was while I was at work and then happened next day while I was home. I have 5 in a rack and with the cold temps we were having it went over 250v mid day where the load is only about 500w after batteries are charged. So I turned off 10 panels and never had the issue again.

I do worry some day I will get caught because it was all done on the down low. CA has to many rules and there own UL listing. All is done right but wouldn't matter here.

I have 4 more SoK rack batteries to put in line and should not have any issues with running out of battery. I'm amazed how I can make enough power to put back what I use even when it is raining or full over cast. Some days I don't but haven't even come close since the one time.

So for now I'm off grid until they catch me
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It's property tax in some states. How we helped a few folks were old house trailer frames/wheels. Now it's a home built trailer, and if it never hits the highway it's not taxed. Doesn't matter what's ON the trailer.

I ran into this myself by accident. I had a ground mount, decided to build where the rack was, cut it off and put the rack on a hay trailer (old house trailer frame) and the tax assessor told me it wouldn't be taxed... they only tax 'Permanente Fixtures'...

Example, gravel & asphalt drives are not taxed, but concrete is. Storage buildings with rock or paver floors are taxed much lower than concrete, livestock shelters & feeders on skids aren't taxed, but anything with a foundation is taxed...

I do have anchor posts in the ground, but my panel racks LOOK like they have skids and can scoot along the ground. No tax on racks or panels this way.

Screw in anchors you bolt to or cable to are NOT permanent fixtures since they can be unscrewed. Think screw in anchors for power pole guide wires or house trailer anchors.
No concrete, not permanent... for now anyway.

Alabama already has, Georgia & Indiana are trying to pass tariffs on panel capacity. Doesnt matter what the panels actually produce, or if they are being used at all.

I haven't had anything to do with it yet, but some states/utility districts are restricting when you can use batteries to offset peak usage. One reason I prefer to limit 'Connectivity'... If no one can 'See' when the battery is used, then the point is moot.

I have a welding & machine shop. We have built a few racks for enclosed trailers & shipping containers.

Hinge on one top side, panels lay against the roof and one side. Orient the trailer so the panels face south, fold out the panels and it starts making/storing power. Everything is on wheels, so it's not permanent and you might have to pay plates/tax on the trailer, but your property taxes don't shoot to the moon.

Light weight trailers will need ballist weight or tie downs, but a shipping container is pretty hard to flip over in the wind. Shipping containers also make a good 'Shop' space, and are secure storage.

The fact that people are having to go 'Guerilla' in the first place should tell you all you need to know...
 
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We were told via mail that a reassessment for home values was taking place. After the person walked all over our property he stated we don't have the authority to tax your panels yet. They already raised our property taxes by $600 over a year ago.
 
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kromc5 said:
We were told via mail that a reassessment for home values was taking place. After the person walked all over our property he stated we don't have the authority to tax your panels yet. They already raise our property taxes by $600 over a year ago.
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Currently Texas exempts solar and wind power installations from property tax. Hopefully that doesn't change, but they already hammer us so hard on property taxes that I don't know if it matters much. I expect a $2000 increase on our property taxes this year based on new appraisals and the only reason it isn't double that is the land is ag exempt.
 
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