This sounds like a lot of speculation of what they could do.
What are the actual FINES for unpermitted solar installations?
- Thread starter Clipper81
- Start date
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
I've had no issues in PA besides terrible winters. 2 roof mounts and a ground mount, all inspected by me.
robby
Photon Vampire
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 4,211
Well that kind of shows that they are always watching what it was 12 months ago and the Percentage change plus the Temperature change for that month versus a year ago.
Good luck Kenny.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
No fines per se. But reconnect fees etc can quickly get burdensome as into the thousands.
But are we talking about Unpermitted by the local AHJ vs. approved to interconnect by your utility? Those are two different things.
With today's smart meters they will catch you back feeding within seconds. Some utilities call and ask what's going on then explain that until you get approved to interconnect you must stop. But some COOP'S send a lineman out to inspect that day and if you don't shut your system down he pulls your meter and drives away.
I know this because I'm on the list of approved inspectors that several local utilities refer people to when they catch them. Many rural areas have no AHJ and the COOP's are quick to stay out of anything related to NEC. I should say I used to be on the list because people who try to illegally backfeed aren't exactly easy to get along with (not saying they are right or wrong) and life is easier when I'm not wondering if this dude is going to shoot me if I don't sign off on his hacked together system.
But are we talking about Unpermitted by the local AHJ vs. approved to interconnect by your utility? Those are two different things.
With today's smart meters they will catch you back feeding within seconds. Some utilities call and ask what's going on then explain that until you get approved to interconnect you must stop. But some COOP'S send a lineman out to inspect that day and if you don't shut your system down he pulls your meter and drives away.
I know this because I'm on the list of approved inspectors that several local utilities refer people to when they catch them. Many rural areas have no AHJ and the COOP's are quick to stay out of anything related to NEC. I should say I used to be on the list because people who try to illegally backfeed aren't exactly easy to get along with (not saying they are right or wrong) and life is easier when I'm not wondering if this dude is going to shoot me if I don't sign off on his hacked together system.
I had a VERY bad year in 2008 or so.
My power got cut off, and i decided to tie a few panels together, and use all the car batteries i could scrounge from my collection of scrap cars... i had about 20 decent batteries all laid out on a shelf in a plastic tray, covered by another plastic tray, routed poorly all the cables together, tied in a solar controller and threw the panels up on a platform, connected a basic msw inverter, connected to my sub panel, and flipped the switch.
It kept my heat, my lights on, and internet up for a year.
The utility inspector came by to confirm my power was off, inspected what i had done, said i wasnt stealing power, and was on his way.
He was impressed it was all functioning off 107W of harbor freight solar panels.
I still have the "array" on the roof of my barn, and it powers the electric fence.
It annoyed me i couldnt get enough power to run my ac, or keep any appliances running for long. I think the square wave damaged my refrigerator, but it worked until i got on my feet enough to realize how bad car batteries were for solar.
NC at least was unconcerned i had tied solar to my house back then.
Way before smart meters, and the political changes.
I might try it again, now that i have massive solar equipment and panels...
But it would be just as easy for me, as an electrician to just do it right...
Soon as i get some free time...
Maybe this year?
My power got cut off, and i decided to tie a few panels together, and use all the car batteries i could scrounge from my collection of scrap cars... i had about 20 decent batteries all laid out on a shelf in a plastic tray, covered by another plastic tray, routed poorly all the cables together, tied in a solar controller and threw the panels up on a platform, connected a basic msw inverter, connected to my sub panel, and flipped the switch.
It kept my heat, my lights on, and internet up for a year.
The utility inspector came by to confirm my power was off, inspected what i had done, said i wasnt stealing power, and was on his way.
He was impressed it was all functioning off 107W of harbor freight solar panels.
I still have the "array" on the roof of my barn, and it powers the electric fence.
It annoyed me i couldnt get enough power to run my ac, or keep any appliances running for long. I think the square wave damaged my refrigerator, but it worked until i got on my feet enough to realize how bad car batteries were for solar.
NC at least was unconcerned i had tied solar to my house back then.
Way before smart meters, and the political changes.
I might try it again, now that i have massive solar equipment and panels...
But it would be just as easy for me, as an electrician to just do it right...
Soon as i get some free time...
Maybe this year?
They use drones…talkative neighbors , “cash for tips” programs , inspectors going about their day , people that don’t like you..some times they just get lucky and stumble on yer stuff… if there money at stake they will find a way… it’s not called Californication for nothing…..
( oh yea, your ex- wife might rat you out) ….
J.
Reported.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,088
I got city permits but not PG&E permission to operate because I thought I'd be better off with true-up anniversary in spring, giving me a whole winter to burn off surplus.
I rigged a motion sensor at the gate, wired to knock my system offline, so meter reader wouldn't see mechanical meter spinning backwards.
Still, I got a letter that said if I didn't get PTO, they would cut off my power.
Took a couple tries to get net-metering time of use meter. I think I paid twice, and first one was time of use but not net meter. Can't remember any more if the duplicate payment was reimbursed. My true up is end of February.
They haven't bothered me since.
But I did get a bill one month which said I drew 400A continuous during peak time (Noon to 6:00 PM) Monday-Friday, then stuffed almost all that power back off-peak (like night time.) The bill was a couple thousand.
I said the meter wasn't working right. They tested it and said it was fine. I said that if I drew 400A for 6 hours through a 200A service, wire would have reached 270C and melted the insulation. I told them net consumption was correct, in line with previous month, just the on/off peak split was incorrect and they ought to estimate the bill assuming same ratio as previous month. That is what they did.
There had been a solar storm that month, but neither binary nor BCD single bit flip explained the meter reading.
I rigged a motion sensor at the gate, wired to knock my system offline, so meter reader wouldn't see mechanical meter spinning backwards.
Still, I got a letter that said if I didn't get PTO, they would cut off my power.
Took a couple tries to get net-metering time of use meter. I think I paid twice, and first one was time of use but not net meter. Can't remember any more if the duplicate payment was reimbursed. My true up is end of February.
They haven't bothered me since.
But I did get a bill one month which said I drew 400A continuous during peak time (Noon to 6:00 PM) Monday-Friday, then stuffed almost all that power back off-peak (like night time.) The bill was a couple thousand.
I said the meter wasn't working right. They tested it and said it was fine. I said that if I drew 400A for 6 hours through a 200A service, wire would have reached 270C and melted the insulation. I told them net consumption was correct, in line with previous month, just the on/off peak split was incorrect and they ought to estimate the bill assuming same ratio as previous month. That is what they did.
There had been a solar storm that month, but neither binary nor BCD single bit flip explained the meter reading.
robby
Photon Vampire
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 4,211
I think some people on here still have those lovely old Analog meters.
I have heard about people who had Solar along with an Analog meters 10 years ago.
They could run the Meter backwards in the Daytime and then draw power at night and basically zero out their bill without any batteries. That must have been Sweet!
I have heard about people who had Solar along with an Analog meters 10 years ago.
They could run the Meter backwards in the Daytime and then draw power at night and basically zero out their bill without any batteries. That must have been Sweet!
My brother is an inspector for the state of Florida. He told me they do have the real time skyview of people houses. But he said people give over their rights to fast. He said put up a no trespass sign, and tell them they can not trespass. And he said inspectors really don’t have authority in non-incorporated areas but people will just let the inspectors in.
featherlite
Solar Enthusiast
I stand corrected. Indiana also exempts solar equipment from property taxes.
Did they make you shut down your operation until you were properly permitted? Any fines?Could trigger an indoor grow house search thinking that you bypassed the meter
Have no idea. I do know that back when I lived in an area (Washington State) that had all the planning commissions, building departments, State health inspectors, Forestry departments,a half a dozen other bureaucratic fiefdoms and petty tyrants, that doing anything without prior permit would get you a Official Notice and Sanction. Often that started with a Red Tag. You had to correct the issue or face various forms of increasing pressure to do so that could included fines and even government work crews (that you were on the hook to pay) that demolished things.
Electrical company compliance is usually going to simply result in Service disconnect until you can correct the issue and be inspected.
Yes there are many folks that skirted the rules and get away with it. As you say it is risk versus reward. If you live in such an authoritarian area the risk is high.
lol
Years ago the house next to me was a grow house. Cops raided it and removed a U-Haul full of plants. The city took the house and it sat empty for over a year and it went up for auction. They pulled new cable from the street because the grower had cut into the cable below the meter. The owner/contractor was whining about the cost. Yeah we figured that they (grower) were doing something, but they were quiet neighbors.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
I have had friends and a family member who, for legitimate reasons, had substantial reductions in their electric usage over a period of time. They each got a knock on the door from the local utility company who came poking around looking for answers and asking questions. When the owner explained why the consumption had dropped they were satisfied and left. None of these homes had a smart meter at the time.
However, I have never had the same thing happen when power consumption increases dramatically. I even had a friend who's power consumption increased for no apparent reason. He could not explain the increase and asked the utility for help in figuring out why his bill was so high. The utility was not sympathetic or willing to help track down the answer. After about 6 or 8 months he discovered the source of the problem. It was a damaged underground wire feeding power to his garage. It was leaking current into the ground.
Your local friendly Vermont utility? Or another place in the country?
Kenny_
Solar Addict
Exactly! And all the laws are on their side! This must Change!
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
Yes, Vermont Utility and my friend has National Grid.
