diy solar

diy solar

how was parallel solar done before microinverters

cdoublejj--

New Member
Joined
May 5, 2023
Messages
26
Location
MO
Sorry if my wrong think has lead to a dumb question. maybe parallel wasn't even a thing before or maybe it's always been M.I but, I never heard of till a year ago. or may M.I. substitutes the little diode on the back of the panel?
 
"Parallel solar" has been done for decades with DC, and for a period, it was essentially the only option.

Microinverters are for paralleling panels together via AC, which was not done before microinverters.
so what, basically for smaller gauge wire down to the battery room or longer runs? i figured i'd run the phattest, biggest, heaveist wire i could from the panels down to the battery room. do micro-inverters increase the net output or drop the losses that much? i think of AC to DC or DC to AC as semi expensive en devour as it isn't ass efficient as DC to DC conversion.
 
You can parallel high voltage series strings so you can run thinner wire from the solar panels to the inverter/charge controller. The size of the wire you need depends on the current you run though them and the voltage at which you do so. Power losses are Pj = R x I^2, so the lower your current, the less your losses. Since P = U x I, this means higher voltage.
The conversion from DC to AC or doing DC/DC conversion is pretty negligible these days for solar installs. AC from the panels with microinverters is usually easier when you have to couple to the grid, but seems to be more popular in the States. Most installs here in Europe are DC with a string inverter, not microinverters.
 
You can parallel high voltage series strings so you can run thinner wire from the solar panels to the inverter/charge controller. The size of the wire you need depends on the current you run though them and the voltage at which you do so. Power losses are Pj = R x I^2, so the lower your current, the less your losses. Since P = U x I, this means higher voltage.
The conversion from DC to AC or doing DC/DC conversion is pretty negligible these days for solar installs. AC from the panels with microinverters is usually easier when you have to couple to the grid, but seems to be more popular in the States. Most installs here in Europe are DC with a string inverter, not microinverters.
but, if all i want to do is run ALL of my panels in parallel i would need some hefty wire to handle the amps though?
 
but, if all i want to do is run ALL of my panels in parallel i would need some hefty wire to handle the amps though?

Yes - so as an example it is like some conversion vans and trailers are done now.

Some small panels in the 50 - 200 watt range with a Vmp of ~ 18 volts. Feeding less than 10 ft to a solar charge controller and then to a 12 volt battery.

People found out very quickly that building low voltage systems was not a good strategy.
 
Yes - so as an example it is like some conversion vans and trailers are done now.

Some small panels in the 50 - 200 watt range with a Vmp of ~ 18 volts. Feeding less than 10 ft to a solar charge controller and then to a 12 volt battery.

People found out very quickly that building low voltage systems was not a good strategy.
series has a big con too, each string is Fubar the second you get a leaf or some dirt on it!!!! they require lots of maintenance!

i figured i could clean less but, spend significantly more on cable, especially with such wildly varying weather.
 
Maybe but my understanding is that series strings without optimizers are fairly common outside North America. Which suggests that they can be made to work OK.

Also the probability that you have leaf/debris on a single panel (or half-panel in the case of half cut panels), and no others on that string, seems dubious.

There is also the question of finding an inverter with high current input. I don't think for example the recent LuxPower, Megarevo, and Solark inverters have MPPTs intended for going super parallel.
 
series has a big con too, each string is Fubar the second you get a leaf or some dirt on it!!!! they require lots of maintenance!
Nonsense. Modern string systems deal with such things quite well. Half cut cells, bypass diodes, very smart MPPTs.
What maintenance?

Maybe but my understanding is that series strings without optimizers are fairly common outside North America. Which suggests that they can be made to work OK.
There's about 3 million such systems in Australia. It's the normal arrangement for grid tied PV here. MIs and optimisers (e.g. Tigo, SolarEdge) are much less common due to cost - any production benefit is rarely makes up for the significant extra cost. More panels is a much cheaper option to make up any deficit. Normally such panel level optimisation is used for dealing with complex roof designs, strings of variable sizes.
 
It's the norm here in Europe too: series string of panels to get to the voltage required by the charge controller/inverter, then multiple strings in parallel to get to each MPPT/inverter maximum power input capabilities or just multiple MPPT/inverters. No optimizer, no AC coupling. Just string inverters.
 
series has a big con too, each string is Fubar the second you get a leaf or some dirt on it!!!! they require lots of maintenance!

i figured i could clean less but, spend significantly more on cable, especially with such wildly varying weather.
I've got a challenge for you. I lock you in my shipping container where the inverters are. I put a leaf on one of the panels. All you have to do is identify which string is now Fubar as a result of the leaf. You get it wrong, you stay in there. How confident are you in your statement?
 
Maybe but my understanding is that series strings without optimizers are fairly common outside North America. Which suggests that they can be made to work OK.

Also the probability that you have leaf/debris on a single panel (or half-panel in the case of half cut panels), and no others on that string, seems dubious.

There is also the question of finding an inverter with high current input. I don't think for example the recent LuxPower, Megarevo, and Solark inverters have MPPTs intended for going super parallel.
whats an optimizer or where can i learn about them? also those aren't crappy enough, i'm looking at the eg4 18kpv

Nonsense. Modern string systems deal with such things quite well. Half cut cells, bypass diodes, very smart MPPTs.
What maintenance?


There's about 3 million such systems in Australia. It's the normal arrangement for grid tied PV here. MIs and optimisers (e.g. Tigo, SolarEdge) are much less common due to cost - any production benefit is rarely makes up for the significant extra cost. More panels is a much cheaper option to make up any deficit. Normally such panel level optimisation is used for dealing with complex roof designs, strings of variable sizes.
every time i see a youtube video from in the last 3 years they are ways talking about how they have to go out every other day and clean them off. my back is getting worse.

clearly i have a lot ot learn but, state where my mind WAS,

600VDC MaxThe extra high voltage enables lower cable sizingfor the 3 MPPTs and a maximum recommended PVinput of 21,000W. Eliminating the need for acombiner box.

i was thinking that mean there was not a minimum voltage and i could just shove a bunch of amps in it. lol


I've got a challenge for you. I lock you in my shipping container where the inverters are. I put a leaf on one of the panels. All you have to do is identify which string is now Fubar as a result of the leaf. You get it wrong, you stay in there. How confident are you in your statement?
i'd be a kid in candy store! oooohhh look at that!!! ooooh and that!!!

This really is nonsense .... plain and simple nonsense.
thats sad, that tells me the US is still the dark ages if in 2021 people still getting OG installs, but, with all the money big power has put in banning PV in some areas and the FUD spread around.

Or as i'm going back to link some videos i'm conflating some so low end systems and some high end systems in winter! there ain't getting around snow fluff.

Pffft.

Bypass diodes.
yup just more confirmation i have a lot to learn!
 
series has a big con too, each string is Fubar the second you get a leaf or some dirt on it!!!! they require lots of maintenance!

i figured i could clean less but, spend significantly more on cable, especially with such wildly varying weather.

Cleaning panels is a somewhat regional thing.

Panels that are fairly vertical and located in regions that have rain regularly get somewhat cleaned just from the weather.

In my area, panels on top of my vehicle face more or less straight up and we only get rain in the winter. My neighbors yard service blows the dust around and my previously fairly clean panels are not covered in dust and pollen - every week.

Even if I am driving around, there is a fair amount of dust and pollen in this area so they won't stay clean. No amount of parallel, series, or optimizers will fix this. It is an easy 50% cut in output.

So I just clean them along with the windshield and other windows when I get gas.

I am not dismissing the value of the various methods and challenges, but in my mind, if you are going to have solar panels in an area that your house experience is not sort of self cleaning, then it might make sense to think about some method of auto rinsing off the panels as a fundamental requirement.
 
every time i see a youtube video from in the last 3 years they are ways talking about how they have to go out every other day and clean them off.
Social media tends to promote things to us we've seen before or have liked as it figures that's what we are interested in watching/reading. It doesn't care if the content is valid, only that you watch it as they earn revenue from clicks, views etc. Being correct isn't valued, being popular is.

It's so easy to be caught in a bubble of bad information.
 
i'm looking at the eg4 18kpv
With that inverter you need to put panels in series. It won't do anything on one panel. You're probably looking at a string of 8+ panels. See the ranges on the MPPT voltage? If you are worried about the shading from a leaf, you will want to be well into the normal PV voltage range.

Screenshot_20230611-201429.png
every time i see a youtube video from in the last 3 years they are ways talking about how they have to go out every other day and clean them off. my back is getting worse.
Well that's nonsense! My solar has been up for 6-7 years. I've cleaned it twice. Once to get the ash off after forest fires in the area. I barely noticed the improvement. The second time, I was just adding more panels and didn't want the old ones to stand out.
i was thinking that mean there was not a minimum voltage and i could just shove a bunch of amps in it. lol
There are amp spec on the inverter too, use the spec sheet. It will help you.
thats sad, that tells me the US is still the dark ages if in 2021 people still getting OG installs, but, with all the money big power has put in banning PV in some areas and the FUD spread around.
What? Series strings are the right way to go, up the voltage, get smaller wiring more efficient strings. This is a US thing, it's an electrical engineering thing.
Or as i'm going back to link some videos i'm conflating some so low end systems and some high end systems in winter! there ain't getting around snow fluff.
Whoever that is, stop watching them!
But, yes snow is real, kills production.
 
Back
Top