6000 XP problem with Grid only

[dwwells2]

I have an EG4 6000XP in my rv running off solar, battery, grid/generator. When I say grid/generator I mean I left the original transfer switch in place so when the ac is sent to 6000 xp it could be from the actual grid or my onan 7500qd. Each are identical in that they are 2 legs 120v. I have downloaded and applied the latest firmware updates. I am getting 120 on both legs coming into the load switch on the 6000xp.

The 6000xp requires that you set times, ac start battery voltage, etc.. and in most cases that should work fine, but there are instances where I need to test my grid/generator and I can turn off my solar but I don't want to discharge my battery bank to get the system to run on grid. There are also real world needs where you have a cloudy day and solar is not providing enough energy and I want to run my generator to run my a/c during the day and run the a/c at night off battery. They have new settings for generator assist but that appears overkill for what I'm needing to do and I don't know if that would work either without forcing discharge of the battery

The bypass mode and AC charge mode seem to be based on discharge of battery before using the grid as I have tried both mode settings with no luck. It seems you have to trick the system to run on grid. I know other All-in-ones allow easy and simple change of energy input but appears to me EG4 over did it. I have also tried turning off my batteries but the 6000xp doesn't like that and I still had no luck.Has anybody else found an easy way to get the 6000xp to run on the grid? Thanks for any thought or ideas.

 

[Mattb4]

Likely you will want one of the EG4 Honchos to answer so forgive me for attempting any advice since I am not a owner of an EG4.

Does your AIO transfer to grid power based on the battery SOC or time settings now? If it is simply not transferring that would mean that the AC input is not being recognized. Your AIO should show incoming AC voltage. Your mention of voltage at the load switch leaves a question about this.

Do you have a Utility setting versus SOC or PV? In other AIO's this is often a Uti/SUB/SBU/SOL choice. I would bet that if you don't have one of those settings that there must be an equivalent type.

 

[ScrotusGobbleBottom]

The only way that I have found to force grid is to set the "on grid end of discharge" voltage higher than the battery. To set it back to battery, you need to set it 3v lower than the battery is at that moment. After applying the -3v, you can move it where you want,

 

[ScrotusGobbleBottom]

Uti/SUB/SBU/SOL choice.

There is NO Utility/SUB/SBU/SOL choice.

 

[Mattb4]

There is NO Utility/SUB/SBU/SOL choice.

Thank you for that. This stuff is ever evolving.

 

[ScrotusGobbleBottom]

Thank you for that. This stuff is ever evolving.

I was surprised to find this out myself about no "modes" on the 6000xp

 

[dwwells2]

Thanks for all the advice. After continued testing, it appears that the generator voltage is also causing some problem. I connected my true grid power, then disconnected the solar, turned the breaker off from the batteries, and the ac voltage from the grid is coming and supplying the coach. When I disconnect from grid and switch to generator, I am getting 120 ac on both legs at the Grid breaker on the AIO but the AIO is not recognizing the ac incoming. Documentation recommends >10kW generator and mine is a 7500kW so I don't know if that is the issue or something else. I just don't know why the AIO will not pass-thru the ac received from the generator. Plans are to use the generator as a backup but it still needs to power the coach under load every couple of months or it will fail when needed the most. Again, any ideas are welcome and I will respond to any questions the best I can.

I just wished they had true "modes" for those of us who want manual control from time to time without jumping through hoops to trick the system.
Thanks

 

[dwwells2]

Likely you will want one of the EG4 Honchos to answer so forgive me for attempting any advice since I am not a owner of an EG4.

Does your AIO transfer to grid power based on the battery SOC or time settings now? If it is simply not transferring that would mean that the AC input is not being recognized. Your AIO should show incoming AC voltage. Your mention of voltage at the load switch leaves a question about this.

Do you have a Utility setting versus SOC or PV? In other AIO's this is often a Uti/SUB/SBU/SOL choice. I would bet that if you don't have one of those settings that there must be an equivalent type.

Thanks for your reply. The AIO has the ability to use either SOC or time settings, which in the bigger picture makes since so everything can run automatically. But from what I can tell, the battery has to be discharged to less than 90% before it allows charge from the grid. Others have made a a suggestion that I am going to try. It also appears the ac from the grid is being used and passed through but the ac from the generator is not being passed through even though it reaches the Grid breaker on the AIO at 120 volts on each leg? EG4 refers to the settings as "modes" but it relies on SOC or time to configure, can't just set to utility/Solar/battery.

 

[dwwells2]

The only way that I have found to force grid is to set the "on grid end of discharge" voltage higher than the battery. To set it back to battery, you need to set it 3v lower than the battery is at that moment. After applying the -3v, you can move it where you want,

Thanks, I will try that.

 

[ScrotusGobbleBottom]

Thanks, I will try that.

Of course, you need to set discharge control to voltage in order to move the settings.

 

[Mattb4]

...

I just wished they had true "modes" for those of us who want manual control from time to time without jumping through hoops to trick the system.
Thanks

Yeah I would call that a fail that they do not allow selecting utility as a preferred source. Have to wonder what their thinking was.

 

[dwwells2]

I have found more clues to my generator issue. When I measure grid L1 & L2 at the transfer switch, I get 120v on each and when I measure L1 & L2 together I get 240v. When I measure the generator L1 & L2 at the transfer switch, I get 120v each but when I measure L1 & L2 I get 0v. Since it's not true 240v, the 6000xp will not accept it? But the spec sheet states nominal voltage 120-240VAC so it should accept it I would think?

 

[Mattb4]

I have found more clues to my generator issue. When I measure grid L1 & L2 at the transfer switch, I get 120v on each and when I measure L1 & L2 together I get 240v. When I measure the generator L1 & L2 at the transfer switch, I get 120v each but when I measure L1 & L2 I get 0v. Since it's not true 240v, the 6000xp will not accept it? But the spec sheet states nominal voltage 120-240VAC so it should accept it I would think?

Your generator may have a selection switch to provide 240vAC. At the moment it sounds like it is only providing the same 120vAC on two legs and that is why you are getting a 0v reading. No it will not accept less than a true 240vAC split phase input.

 

[DIYrich]

Chargeverter to charge battery directly from grid or generator. You loose a little in the conversion, but it cleans up the power.

 

[dwwells2]

Found a video where guy that was testing different scenarios and his conclusion was the same on the 240vAC . He could not find anyway to get it run on 120vAC even though specs state "AC Input Data-Nominal AC voltage=120-240vAC. Trying to determine best path forward as the rest of my rig runs fine on the 2-120 legs from the generator, it's just the AIO rejecting it. Even tried turning off the 6000xp to see if it would allow by-pass of the AC but no luck.

Possible solutions:
a) somehow bypass the AIO when AC power from genny,
b) get a transformer and attach to the generator AC to step up to 240v,
c) get a chargeverter and attach to the AC - thus if running on grid the AIO would work, running genny would charge batteries allowing AIO to power rig,
d)buy more server batteries, have 4x48v @100amp currently, running 4500watts of solar power,
e)???
Options b-d would not allow me to properly put the genny under load to keep it running properly. Thanks again for all the knowledge and advice.

 

[42OhmsPA]

e)???

See post 426 of same thread for a link if your interested.

 

[Mattb4]

Found a video where guy that was testing different scenarios and his conclusion was the same on the 240vAC . He could not find anyway to get it run on 120vAC even though specs state "AC Input Data-Nominal AC voltage=120-240vAC. Trying to determine best path forward as the rest of my rig runs fine on the 2-120 legs from the generator, it's just the AIO rejecting it. Even tried turning off the 6000xp to see if it would allow by-pass of the AC but no luck.

Possible solutions:
a) somehow bypass the AIO when AC power from genny,
b) get a transformer and attach to the generator AC to step up to 240v,
c) get a chargeverter and attach to the AC - thus if running on grid the AIO would work, running genny would charge batteries allowing AIO to power rig,
d)buy more server batteries, have 4x48v @100amp currently, running 4500watts of solar power,
e)???
Options b-d would not allow me to properly put the genny under load to keep it running properly. Thanks again for all the knowledge and advice.

I imagine the 120-240vAC input spec is based on if the AIO operated in parallel mode (120vAC) or in stacked mode 240vAC split phase*. From my understanding they do not give you a setting to run it as 120vAC as a 6000w output. Only as a stacked 3000w per leg 2 phase 180 degree apart. Other split phase AIO's do give you that option.

The reason your rig runs fine with only 120vAC jumper-ed between both legs output from the generator is you do not have any 240vAC loads.
I would avoid trying a transformer before your AIO. It would introduce issues.

*Stacked mode is actually 2 phase. Think of it as two inverters that coordinate so that when one is max positive voltage the other is max negative. when you combine them (p120v) + (n120v) = 240vAC difference between them.

Possible solutions is to isolate the AIO through the use of transfer switches during generator operation. Getting a 240vAC generator. Using a battery charger from the generator and not powering your RV directly with it. Going with a different AIO that will operate on 120vAC input and output. This last one you would need to use a jumper to power both legs.

 

[dwwells2]

I imagine the 120-240vAC input spec is based on if the AIO operated in parallel mode (120vAC) or in stacked mode 240vAC split phase*. From my understanding they do not give you a setting to run it as 120vAC as a 6000w output. Only as a stacked 3000w per leg 2 phase 180 degree apart. Other split phase AIO's do give you that option.

The reason your rig runs fine with only 120vAC jumper-ed between both legs output from the generator is you do not have any 240vAC loads.
I would avoid trying a transformer before your AIO. It would introduce issues.

*Stacked mode is actually 2 phase. Think of it as two inverters that coordinate so that when one is max positive voltage the other is max negative. when you combine them (p120v) + (n120v) = 240vAC difference between them.

Possible solutions is to isolate the AIO through the use of transfer switches during generator operation. Getting a 240vAC generator. Using a battery charger from the generator and not powering your RV directly with it. Going with a different AIO that will operate on 120vAC input and output. This last one you would need to use a jumper to power both legs.

Thank You for the thorough explanation and suggestions.

 

[dwwells2]

Well I worked out a solution and have installed it. First off I unhooked the genny wiring from the transfer box at the rear of coach where grid versus genny determined. I located the genny wiring that was going down the middle of coach and cut the cable so that it no longer went to the back transfer box. I then took a my spare transfer box and attached near the AIO. I ran the Load wiring from AIO to the first spot on the transfer box. Ran the genny wiring that I cut to the second spot on the transfer box so that it would have priority if the genny is running. Them wired the transfer box output to the RV breaker box.

If the genny is not running, power to the RV is provided by Solar/Battery/Grid. If the Genny is running, the RV is fed from the Genny and not using the AIO. If I decide I want to charge the server batteries from the Genny, then I will install a chargeverter connected to the Genny AC. My immediate concern with the chargeverter is if the genny can handle the loads. I still need to remove the rear transfer box as it is no longer needed and will function as a backup.

The EG4 6000XP is still not easy to make run off the grid. I've tried various settings with the charge time of day & voltage settings mentioned above and to get the setting to work I think I had to reboot the 6000XP or turn off battery and solar at the breakers which forced to grid. I tried several things so I can't say for sure what worked and what didn't. Will try to pin that down but there should be some simple and easy way of specifying whether to use S/B/G. At least it's easy to run the coach off the genny now that the transfer case handles it.

Thanks for all the advice and feedback. Maybe with enough complaining EG4 will change the software to allow ease of use.