Anker F3800/Ecoflow Delta Ultra home solution

[Wiz33]

Total newbie here so please bear with me if I'm asking stupid question. I do have general knowledge about Volt, Amps, W/hr and such. I'm looking for a all in one expandable battery/inverter with solar charging. Main reason I want a commercially available pre-built is that I will probably be downsizing in the next 5 years or so and a system that can be easily moved would simplify thing. I don't mind leaving the solar panels in place as it'll probably adds to the marketability of the house anyways.
My current resident is a 2 story 2200 sq ft house in San Jose/Cupertino border. House have insulated wall and was remodeled with new double pane windows pretty much all LED lighting and insulated water pipes 2 years ago.

Both the Anker and Ecoflow have home panel that can take more than one inverter (2 with Anker and 3 with EcoFlow) which would give me output currents ranging from 6000 Watts to 21.6KW. I know the house uses between 900-1000KW per month depending on seasons. so say 30-35KW a day. but I do not know how much output current I need to handle surges when varies appliances starts up or happens to be on at the same time.

I assume the biggest surge/constant power draw (above 1000W for longer than say 10 minutes at a time) would be HVAC, Electric Stove top, Cloth dryer. What would the minimum recommended current output ( let say I make sure that the HVAC is off when I use the cloth dryer or during cooking hours) with the rest of the constant power draw being from 2x300W Fridge. PC setup with sound system that probably draw around 300W and 2 200W QLED TV that's on for a total of maybe 4 hours a day.

So the main question is how much output do I need. I'm sure I'm going to be cutting it close with a 6000W Anker but will a 7200W Ultra be enough. We can worry about capacity later as both system are easily expandable. Thanks in advance for all inputs.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

If you can manage to use only one of the big 240V appliances at a time, then even 6000W likely is enough.

It is an inconvenience and it depends on if you share the house with someone.

Below is today's load chart from my Santa Cruz house. The big spikes of nearly 5kW are from an electric water heater. We used to have an old electric dryer that caused a similar load of 5kW.
My system is limited to 10kW output.
It was not possible to do laundry on it, because the washer starts (1kW) and then the water heater kicks in (5kW). The water heater may run for a full hour! It may still run when the dryer gets started. With the background consumption (fridges, computers etc) we would be over 10kW.

BTW: The fridges don't consume non stop. We have 2 full size models (36" French door) and they each use 1.5kWh a day.

My solution was to replace the dryer with a heat pump dryer. The load shrank from 5kW to 0.55kW!!
You cannot tell from this graph when the dryer ran. But there were 3 loads of laundry done today, from 9am to 1pm. You can tell from the wh spikes.

Looking at a heat pump water heater by October.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

Main reason I want a commercially available pre-built is that I will probably be downsizing in the next 5 years or so and a system that can be easily moved would simplify thing

I am not a bit fan of these systems. I haven't done the math lately, but my impression was always that you can get the same done for 1/3 of the price if you buy components and assemble.

So when you move, you just buy new components and still come out ahead $$$ wise.

Also, in 5 years, you may be able to get better equipment.

 

[Wiz33]

I am not a bit fan of these systems. I haven't done the math lately, but my impression was always that you can get the same done for 1/3 of the price if you buy components and assemble.

So when you move, you just buy new components and still come out ahead $$$ wise.

Also, in 5 years, you may be able to get better equipment.

I hear you, if I'm younger, I'll definitely go the DIY route but being over 60, lugging around all the battery and wiring them up is not going to do my back any good. So I figured that getting a commercially available package will cut down on installation cost as I would have to have a certified electrician to do all the panel work.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

I hear you, if I'm younger, I'll definitely go the DIY route but being over 60, lugging around all the battery and wiring them up is not going to do my back any good. So I figured that getting a commercially available package will cut down on installation cost as I would have to have a certified electrician to do all the panel work.

That's probably very true, if you hire an electrician, it's cheaper with the Ecoflow.

Those Ecoflows are no lightweight either though.
With them, you move all components in one box as opposed to separate boxes

I have a Yeti 1400 which is only 1400Wh capacity.. bought it ~10 years ago at Costco and used it maybe during 4 outages. Not the best investment. And heavy considering how little it does/ can do.

 

[Wiz33]

If you can manage to use only one of the big 240V appliances at a time, then even 6000W likely is enough.

It is an inconvenience and it depends on if you share the house with someone.

Below is today's load chart from my Santa Cruz house. The big spikes of nearly 5kW are from an electric water heater. We used to have an old electric dryer that caused a similar load of 5kW.
My system is limited to 10kW output.
It was not possible to do laundry on it, because the washer starts (1kW) and then the water heater kicks in (5kW). The water heater may run for a full hour! It may still run when the dryer gets started. With the background consumption (fridges, computers etc) we would be over 10kW.

BTW: The fridges don't consume non stop. We have 2 full size models (36" French door) and they each use 1.5kWh a day.

My solution was to replace the dryer with a heat pump dryer. The load shrank from 5kW to 0.55kW!!
You cannot tell from this graph when the dryer ran. But there were 3 loads of laundry done today, from 9am to 1pm. You can tell from the wh spikes.

Looking at a heat pump water heater by October.

View attachment 206430

Thanks for the info. I'll probably be OK on the water front since I use a gas tankless water heater which only need power for ignition. If I can get by with one inverter.

The 2nd question is how much capacity would I need in the hours when the solar does not generate enough power. I guess most usage will come from the HVAC unit after cooking the evening meal. Since we lower the set temp in the evening so I would say that the HVAC only runs about 10-15 mins each hours. I guess I'll need at least 12KW and we can see how it goes, there maybe a period of15-20 days that the AC will need to run well into the evening but I'm OK with paying PG&E for the extra need.

The 3rd question is how much solar panel power do I need. the Ultra can take 4000W solar input so you can recharge in 4-5 hours each day while providing the normal but I assume you'll need a buffer to also provide the daytime usage. So maybe a 6000W from panels?

 

[G00SE]

I like the Anker design a lot. Trying to convince my dad to get one or even an ecoflow. I know he won’t dive into a diy system
It seems the Anker is much slower with PV charging which could be a hiccup depending on design

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

Ultra can take 4000W solar input so you can recharge in 4-5 hours each day while providing the normal but I assume you'll need a buffer to also provide the daytime usage. So maybe a 6000W from panels

Yes, more panels is always better. You could put 2500W EACH to face East, South and West. That won't get you 7.5kW. But it will get you pv for more hours of the day. They would need to be on separate mppts. I don't know if the Ecoflow has multiple mppts.

 

[Wiz33]

I like the Anker design a lot. Trying to convince my dad to get one or even an ecoflow. I know he won’t dive into a diy system
It seems the Anker is much slower with PV charging which could be a hiccup depending on design

Did you see the Costco EcoFlow Ultra, inverter, 3 batteries and the smart panel for $9999.00 which is gives you 18Kw for $300 more than a F3800 with 3 batteries which gives you 15.3Kw.

 

[G00SE]

Did you see the Costco EcoFlow Ultra, inverter, 3 batteries and the smart panel for $9999.00 which is gives you 18Kw for $300 more than a F3800 with 3 batteries which gives you 15.3Kw.

I think at most I could convince him of one standalone unit
Beyond that and the plot is lost.
I’ll have to look into the one you describe though, sounds fairly inclusive

 

[Wiz33]

I think at most I could convince him of one standalone unit
Beyond that and the plot is lost.
I’ll have to look into the one you describe though, sounds fairly inclusive

Well, one Ecoflow Ultra with smart panel and 2 battery is $7999 and give you 12Kw and you can basically go off grid which should pay for itself in about 5 years in mild climate and then you can always add more batteries if you needs grows.

 

[Wiz33]

If you can manage to use only one of the big 240V appliances at a time, then even 6000W likely is enough.

It is an inconvenience and it depends on if you share the house with someone.

Below is today's load chart from my Santa Cruz house. The big spikes of nearly 5kW are from an electric water heater. We used to have an old electric dryer that caused a similar load of 5kW.
My system is limited to 10kW output.
It was not possible to do laundry on it, because the washer starts (1kW) and then the water heater kicks in (5kW). The water heater may run for a full hour! It may still run when the dryer gets started. With the background consumption (fridges, computers etc) we would be over 10kW.

BTW: The fridges don't consume non stop. We have 2 full size models (36" French door) and they each use 1.5kWh a day.

My solution was to replace the dryer with a heat pump dryer. The load shrank from 5kW to 0.55kW!!
You cannot tell from this graph when the dryer ran. But there were 3 loads of laundry done today, from 9am to 1pm. You can tell from the wh spikes.

Looking at a heat pump water heater by October.

View attachment 206430

Do you have any experience with Heat Pump Dryer? It seems they on a much lower current like under 1000W at 204V.

 

[zanydroid]

You may not be able to get a building permit to tie these systems into rooftop solar. I don’t think they qualify as an ESS either, in California.

Consider the LG or GE full size heat pump dryer/washer combos. There is a big thread here on those. The tech from that generation I think is coming out soon in the dryer only units.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

Do you have any experience with Heat Pump Dryer? It seems they on a much lower current like under 1000W at 204V.

Yes, they do connect to the existing 30A 240V outlet, but for our Samsung HP dryer, I measured 1.89A to 2.2A on each leg only. That's about 500W.

Compared to 5000W from the old one.
The savings is not 90% though as the old dryer took 45 minutes vs 80 to 90 minutes with the HP dryer.
3.75kWh reduced to 0.75kWh!

 

[Wiz33]

Yes, they do connect to the existing 30A 240V outlet, but for our Samsung HP dryer, I measured 1.89A to 2.2A on each leg only. That's about 500W.

Compared to 5000W from the old one.
The savings is not 90% though as the old dryer took 45 minutes vs 80 to 90 minutes with the HP dryer.
3.75kWh reduced to 0.75kWh!

Thanks. we'll need new washer and dryer when we downsize as the current units are pretty old so getting them early would be OK.

 

[Wiz33]

You may not be able to get a building permit to tie these systems into rooftop solar. I don’t think they qualify as an ESS either, in California.

Consider the LG or GE full size heat pump dryer/washer combos. There is a big thread here on those. The tech from that generation I think is coming out soon in the dryer only units.

The only ESS concern I have is the location, It's seems that California is not that friendly for installing the unit inside a dwelling so the only logical location is the garage or outside. My garage will require some bollards or curb stops and smoke, temp alarms. I can probably put it outside but I would need to provide some sort of weather protection, the last option is a detached tool shed but again, probably need electrical permit and more labor cost. This is turning out more complicated than I thought. I may have to shelf the whole idea and do a Tesla solar and powerwall once I downsize.

 

[zanydroid]

The only ESS concern I have is the location, It's seems that California is not that friendly for installing the unit inside a dwelling so the only logical location is the garage or outside. My garage will require some bollards or curb stops and smoke, temp alarms. I can probably put it outside but I would need to provide some sort of weather protection, the last option is a detached tool shed but again, probably need electrical permit and more labor cost. This is turning out more complicated than I thought. I may have to shelf the whole idea and do a Tesla solar and powerwall once I downsize.

Inside dwelling is pretty scary even with LFP batteries. While NMC is next level scary because it emits accelerants while burning, LFP is still flammable.

There are a lot of outdoor rated batteries these days, and that's the main place I'm considering. Esp since my garage is unfinished (no drywall on multiple sides / no ceiling), and IIRC that requires covering to install an ESS.

 

[Wiz33]

Inside dwelling is pretty scary even with LFP batteries. While NMC is next level scary because it emits accelerants while burning, LFP is still flammable.

There are a lot of outdoor rated batteries these days, and that's the main place I'm considering. Esp since my garage is unfinished (no drywall on multiple sides / no ceiling), and IIRC that requires covering to install an ESS.

OK, I don't know how accurate this is but someone just posted on the Ecoflow group that the Anker and Ecoflow PDU are considered mobile/portable units and not a permanent installation and are not subject to the current ESS rules. would be great if true. I'll have no problem putting in smoke/thermo sensor/alarm in the garage but curb stops or bollards are a bit much.

 

[zanydroid]

OK, I don't know how accurate this is but someone just posted on the Ecoflow group that the PDU is considered a mobile/portable unit and not a permanent installation and is not subject to the current ESS rules. would be great if true. I'll have no problem putting in smoke/thermo sensor/alarm in the garage but curb stops or bollards are a bit much.

I can buy that interpretation for backup power (there's also some regulation groups working on disambiguating things in this direction), and nobody is going to come into your house to see if you're using it beyond backup power.

The PV tie in is harder to figure out.

 

[zanydroid]

What you can do with PV tie in potentially is get the permit for the solar, connected to a very cheap grid tie inverter with no battery (maybe even get one off craig's list). You can even skip the PG&E interconnection fee ($145), my AHJ did not check that I applied for it.

And after you get sign off from AHJ swap in your EcoFlow if you want.

The issue with AHJ is that unpermitted solar panels stick out like a sore thumb.

When you move, put the cheap GTI back in place so you don't leave a hole there (which could cause some liability issues etc if renting, and similar issues if selling)