Duke Energy SC - New rates for grid tied export

[Overtaxed]

Been considering solar on the house (the RV already has a full compliment) for some time now. I called up Duke this morning and wow, they've figured out a great way to stop more solar from coming into the system!

My current rate is ~11c/kwh on what they call "RS" (Residential Service).

For solar, they install a bi-directional meter and move you to a rate called R-STOU (Residential Solar, Time of use). This has variable rates, but summing up (full details for anyone who's interested linked below)

Critical Peak - 27c/kwh
Peak - 17.5c/kwh
Off peak - 11c/kwh
Super off peak - 8.5c/kwh

Peak: 6AM-9AM; 6PM-9PM
Off peak: All hours not in peak or super off peak
Super off peak: 12AM-6AM, March 1-Nov 30th

If you look at the peaks, those are times when solar is basically at 0w and your electric consumption is likely to be high, morning getting ready for work and right after work until you go to sleep. Also, that "critical peak" is at the company discretion, no more than 20 day/yr.

So, summing all this up, I'm thinking solar might not make a lot of sense because I'd have to give up my good rate to get it.

I'm wondering if anyone else is in this situation and if you've done something like a "zero export" system to get around it. If I don't ask for a bidirectional meter, and I don't export any power, can't see why Duke would even need to know I have solar (still need permits from the town, of course), right?

My current rate plan:

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media/pdfs/for-your-home/rates/electric-sc/scschedulere.pdf?rev=cedcf3d7929c475a8942e85cc37a089d

Solar plan with Duke for SC:

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media/pdfs/for-your-home/rates/electric-sc/scschedulerstou.pdf?rev=4a416b90d0ba4cb0bae67252ab4ecfee

 

[Q-Dog]

Can you build a system as though you are off grid and just use the grid as backup? No export?

 

[740GLE]

Solar makes sense (always will) when you self generate and self consume.

Now they are just making it financially sense to install that battery easier for your ?

I will say they need a special rate for “critical peak feed in” rate so your battery will pay for itself that much faster.

“Oh your going to charge me 27c? How about I feed the grid at 27c via the battery and help the grid” deal!

 

[Solar Guppy]

Do TOU with a battery and make some nice income? My current system can do this, but in Florida its flat rate with Duke

 

[glandpuck]

Been considering solar on the house (the RV already has a full compliment) for some time now. I called up Duke this morning and wow, they've figured out a great way to stop more solar from coming into the system!

My current rate is ~11c/kwh on what they call "RS" (Residential Service).

For solar, they install a bi-directional meter and move you to a rate called R-STOU (Residential Solar, Time of use). This has variable rates, but summing up (full details for anyone who's interested linked below)

Critical Peak - 27c/kwh
Peak - 17.5c/kwh
Off peak - 11c/kwh
Super off peak - 8.5c/kwh

Peak: 6AM-9AM; 6PM-9PM
Off peak: All hours not in peak or super off peak
Super off peak: 12AM-6AM, March 1-Nov 30th

If you look at the peaks, those are times when solar is basically at 0w and your electric consumption is likely to be high, morning getting ready for work and right after work until you go to sleep. Also, that "critical peak" is at the company discretion, no more than 20 day/yr.

So, summing all this up, I'm thinking solar might not make a lot of sense because I'd have to give up my good rate to get it.

I'm wondering if anyone else is in this situation and if you've done something like a "zero export" system to get around it. If I don't ask for a bidirectional meter, and I don't export any power, can't see why Duke would even need to know I have solar (still need permits from the town, of course), right?

My current rate plan:

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media/pdfs/for-your-home/rates/electric-sc/scschedulere.pdf?rev=cedcf3d7929c475a8942e85cc37a089d

Solar plan with Duke for SC:

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media/pdfs/for-your-home/rates/electric-sc/scschedulerstou.pdf?rev=4a416b90d0ba4cb0bae67252ab4ecfee

Funny. South Carolina is so Red, but they sure like to copy Blue California utility rates and solar ideas.

 

[glandpuck]

Do TOU with a battery and make some nice income? My current system can do this, but in Florida its flat rate with Duke

I think his rates are too low to "make money with a battery".

Here in So Cal, out peak summer rates are over $1 per kW. That's how you make money with a battery. Even a propane burning or diesel burning generator is cheaper.

 

[Overtaxed]

Do TOU with a battery and make some nice income? My current system can do this, but in Florida its flat rate with Duke

Can you do that? Sell back at a different rate based on TOU?

Everything I can find shows that it's an offset; if you make more power than you consume, the rate is:
Monthly Credit for Net Excess Energy, per kWh $0.0262

Can you build a system as though you are off grid and just use the grid as backup? No export?

That's exactly my question. Can I just "pretend" I don't have solar and reduce my usage (on my current rate schedule) with no export? Of course, I'd have times when my panels would be idle, but I could find something to do with that power (I have 1000 A/hrs/12V in my RV that's tied in, sure I could do a little Node Red work and kick off charging the battery at the "right" time).

But, easier, I'd just downsize the system to line up with my consumption more closely. I was initially thinking about trying to offset almost all my usage with net metering, but that doesn't appear to make any sense.

 

[740GLE]

Confirm with them a netmeter or bidirectional meter is only required if you intend on back feeding the grid.

You’re not a “generator” if you don’t export but instead “load shave” during peak solar hours.

 

[Overtaxed]

Confirm with them a netmeter or bidirectional meter is only required if you intend on back feeding the grid.

You’re not a “generator” if you don’t export but instead “load shave” during peak solar hours.

I'm almost afraid to ask. One of those "don't open this can of worms" type questions. Maybe I'll use an Internet phone and call in with my neighbor's address.

I guess part of me wonders if they even need to know. I'd need to get it permitted and have the electrical inspector out, but, beyond that, not sure why Duke would even have a "say" in it, right? Simple example, I can hook up my RV at home and "load shave" on my 50A plug, in fact, I do it every day by "Ignore AC input" and let the inverter carry the load from the solar/battery.

 

[740GLE]

“Umm sir you’re load doesn’t look right, your doing something illegal ”.

 

[Texican]

This is why for the first 10 years, we gave away free our excess solar from a grid tied system rather than sign up for a plan where you get any credit at all, would have increased our total bill as they charge more for each kwh you buy.

After adding an off grid system we now are sending more than we buy during most months so it was cheaper to have a solar plan now.

thats really bad if you can not give it to them for free and stay on the cheaper kwh plan, you might double check that

 

[Q-Dog]

Install a generator transfer panel (like what you would use with any emergency generator) and transfer some of your circuits to it. Get it inspected if you have to. Build standalone solar system and connect it to the transfer panel like you would a gas powered generator..

 

[Overtaxed]

“Umm sir you’re load doesn’t look right, your doing something illegal ”.

Yeah, I guess they could say that, but, "illegal" is a strong word. Maybe this is one of those "build in stages" type thing. Start with a smaller setup, then keep adding panels until I see a time when I'm crossing the line and the panels are idle too much?

 

[Overtaxed]

Install a generator transfer panel (like what you would use with any emergency generator) and transfer some of your circuits to it. Get it inspected if you have to. Build standalone solar system and connect it to the transfer panel like you would a gas powered generator..

Solar with batteries just doesn't pencil out for me, power is cheap here, I'm not trying to go off grid and I already have a backup generator. Actually, my plan was to tie in like the backup generator though, I put an outdoor meter base with breakers in a few years ago specifically for this (and the generator inlet). If I was willing to go down the hybrid route, I could easily do what you're suggesting, but I really don't want to spend any more $$ on batteries!

 

[Quattrohead]

Your case really is a 100% on or off grid, anything else does not make any sense unless you have one or two electrical items that account for a lot of your usage. About the only thing I can think of that qualifies is an AC compressor in the hot Southern States.

 

[Steve777]

Just another thing to consider, it may not make sense now to get a net meter and pay higher rates, BUT the way elec cos usually go it will likely be more restrictive/expensive to get a net meter setup approved in the future (if you even can). Not saying that necessarily will happen in your area, but it seems to be the trend in many/most places.

 

[Overtaxed]

Just another thing to consider, it may not make sense now to get a net meter and pay higher rates, BUT the way elec cos usually go it will likely be more restrictive/expensive to get a net meter setup approved in the future (if you even can). Not saying that necessarily will happen in your area, but it seems to be the trend in many/most places.

That's a good point, but, honestly, if this is the trend and net metering is just going to get worse, it's probably not worth the hassle. I'm really not sure that without a huge solar array I'd pay less on the net metering plan today. Might be better to load shave and then, when prices get more affordable, add batteries to allow me to shave even more effectively. The good news, our primary consumption is really heat and AC; we both WFH, so our spending on both is generally highest during the day. For my application, I suspect that keeping my current plan and reducing usage the electric company sees, even if it means I under produce at times, might be the best way to go.

Problem is, I was thinking about doing a direct AC couple using microinverters. I'm not sure that's the best way to go if I may add batteries in the future, might be better to go down the route of something like an EG4?

 

[ChrisG]

Been considering solar on the house (the RV already has a full compliment) for some time now. I called up Duke this morning and wow, they've figured out a great way to stop more solar from coming into the system!

My current rate is ~11c/kwh on what they call "RS" (Residential Service).

For solar, they install a bi-directional meter and move you to a rate called R-STOU (Residential Solar, Time of use). This has variable rates, but summing up (full details for anyone who's interested linked below)

Critical Peak - 27c/kwh
Peak - 17.5c/kwh
Off peak - 11c/kwh
Super off peak - 8.5c/kwh

Peak: 6AM-9AM; 6PM-9PM
Off peak: All hours not in peak or super off peak
Super off peak: 12AM-6AM, March 1-Nov 30th

If you look at the peaks, those are times when solar is basically at 0w and your electric consumption is likely to be high, morning getting ready for work and right after work until you go to sleep. Also, that "critical peak" is at the company discretion, no more than 20 day/yr.

So, summing all this up, I'm thinking solar might not make a lot of sense because I'd have to give up my good rate to get it.

I'm wondering if anyone else is in this situation and if you've done something like a "zero export" system to get around it. If I don't ask for a bidirectional meter, and I don't export any power, can't see why Duke would even need to know I have solar (still need permits from the town, of course), right?

My current rate plan:

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media/pdfs/for-your-home/rates/electric-sc/scschedulere.pdf?rev=cedcf3d7929c475a8942e85cc37a089d

Solar plan with Duke for SC:

https://www.duke-energy.com/-/media/pdfs/for-your-home/rates/electric-sc/scschedulerstou.pdf?rev=4a416b90d0ba4cb0bae67252ab4ecfee

You're better off than many of us North Carolina. Buy all/sell all is the thing here with PoCo. Everything you generate they buy at 0.01/kwh and sell back to you at 0.11/kwh vs the normal residential rate of 0.12/kwh. Off grid solar not allowed...unless you find a way to hide it.

 

[JRH]

Funny. South Carolina is so Red, but they sure like to copy Blue California utility rates and solar ideas.

Spent half of my long life in coastal SC and Spartanburg area…will be home there for Xmas … Them cats are cowboys and gunslingers of the first order… it’s a Money World ..and Duke is a 800 lb gorilla there…

….ya got two choices there to have a good life ….either be big and rich enough to buy respect
( and do what you want) .. OR ….Be small enough not to annoy or cause a problem ..
( and do what you want) ..

the in-between people are who pay all the taxes, get all the grief, work their ass off and obey all the rules…..

if your gona live there , it helps to understand how the system works…I love it there ….I know how things work… I pick my fights carefully ..I stay in my lane…

J.

 

[Overtaxed]

Buy all/sell all

Well, that's a new one to me, and perhaps the most ridiculous abuse I've ever heard of. Next you'll probably tell me it's illegal to disconnect from the grid (don't laugh, I'm sure that's coming; it almost has to, as the wealthy get more and more solar/batteries and start to disconnect, the utilities will have to either raise rates dramatically on the remaining customers or lobby to make it illegal to disconnect and impose steep minimum monthly fees for the connection that you may not ever need).

IDK, this seems like I'm trying to play a game with the deck (deeply) stacked against me.

Would you guys recommend, given my situation, that I go down the route of microinverters/direct couple or should I spend more and get a hybrid setup (like an EG4, but if you have recommendations, please!).