LiTime vs LION Battery

[spencermclegg]

I did a search and didn't find any comparisons.

I am wondering if the extra cost for LION batteries (eg. UT1300 @ $699) is worth it over one of the LiTime batteries (eg. LiTime-12V-100-Smart @$310).

Anyone have any direct experience with this?

 

[12vDC]

its more a preference. so many styles of batteries and brands.

more likely “comparisons” are LiTime vs EcoWorthy and LION vs Battleborn

Ecoworthy typically use grade B cells and lesser performing BMS. Stay away.

Battleborn made in the USA “game changing” old technology that isnt any better than many of the quality offerings out there. theyre uglyAF and sell at an unnecessary exhorbitant price.

its a sea of choices that you need to navigate to avoid the fly-by cheapos. otherwise if you prefer to pay a premium, its still a free country for now.

i just replaced my two 4year old Renogy’s with Power Queen Mini’s (i can fit 3 Minis where i could only previously fit two standard size batteries) and the Renogys still tested to 99% of the rated capacity.

the PQ Mini is a pouch battery just like the Renogy but regarding style thats where the comparison ends. me, if money were not a consideration i would keep the new Renogy REGO on my list among others. im not a fanboy, but they do batteries well IMO.

LION is a good product.
LiTime is a good product.

Dont try to make a marketing comparison. Know each batteries pros/cons and then be happy with your purchase.

 

[spencermclegg]

Know each batteries pros/cons and then be happy with your purchase.

Can you highlight the pros/cons for the two batteries I listed?

Thanks for your reply!!

 

[12vDC]

I cannot.

No experience with the LION other than to observe the build quality from their literature. Appears to be a solid build.

LiTime uses A+ cells and a high grade BMS. Will seems to be impressed.

Its your build, and my opinion might be short-sighted to your individual requirements.

 

[TimE]

I cannot.

No experience with the LION other than to observe the build quality from their literature. Appears to be a solid build.

LiTime uses A+ cells and a high grade BMS. Will seems to be impressed.

Its your build, and my opinion might be short-sighted to your individual requirements.

It would be more useful to know if they have a bluetooth BMS and active balancer built in.

 

[spencermclegg]

It would be more useful to know if they have a bluetooth BMS and active balancer built in.

LION has BT and LiTime (from what I can tell) does not.

I don't really care about BT so LiTime might be my pick.

 

[TimE]

LION has BT and LiTime (from what I can tell) does not.

I don't really care about BT so LiTime might be my pick.

When you get a HVE shutdown and you have no idea what caused it because you have no bluetooth, what do you do?

 

[12vDC]

When you get a HVE shutdown and you have no idea what caused it because you have no bluetooth, what do you do?

start it back up and resume use.

a bluetooth app wont tell you what caused a shutdown, only that it did. starting my 5th year not having/needing bluetooth batteries.

 

[brb58]

Lion has 6mm battery cable attach screws vs everyone else's 8mm. That's a fairly big drawback to me.

 

[TimE]

start it back up and resume use.

a bluetooth app wont tell you what caused a shutdown, only that it did. starting my 5th year not having/needing bluetooth batteries.

A bluetooth app like the JK has data logging. It will tell you what caused a shutdown.
If you are using Lithium on a boat, a shut down can be a very bad thing. It is not something we ever want to happen whilst underway. Anything that helps avoid a shutdown is essential on a boat. I can watch the cell voltages and the active balancer and see the voltage delta in real time. Handy for knowing if there is a rogue cell or a situation developing

 

[Q-Dog]

I just bought a couple of 24 volt AmpereTime leftovers from LiTime. I like them so far, dumb BMS and all. They look nicer than a bunch of bare cells and wires sitting on a shelf like my first 2 batteries.

 

[TimE]

I just bought a couple of 24 volt AmpereTime leftovers from LiTime. I like them so far, dumb BMS and all. They look nicer than a bunch of bare cells and wires sitting on a shelf like my first 2 batteries.

That's so important. Looking nice. Like an ornament?

 

[Q-Dog]

That's so important. Looking nice. Like an ornament?

Happy wife, happy life. She is a little intimidated by the bare cells and wires.

 

[TimE]

Happy wife, happy life. She is a little intimidated by the bare cells and wires.

My wife things my bare cells and wires look like a work of art?

 

[12vDC]

A bluetooth app like the JK has data logging. It will tell you what caused a shutdown.
If you are using Lithium on a boat, a shut down can be a very bad thing. It is not something we ever want to happen whilst underway. Anything that helps avoid a shutdown is essential on a boat. I can watch the cell voltages and the active balancer and see the voltage delta in real time. Handy for knowing if there is a rogue cell or a situation developing

Fair enough. More so for DIY builds.

I meant specifically if say there was over-current it wouldnt tell you what actually caused the overcurrent, only that it occurred.

It is hopeful for established retail offerings to not require such monitoring. Set it, forget it, and enjoy your time out (what I do).

 

[TimE]

Fair enough. More so for DIY builds.

It is hopeful for established retail offerings to not require such monitoring. Set it, forget it, and enjoy your time out (what I do).

It may depend on how you use your batteries. Those living aboard a boat and doing electric cooking, charging off high output chargers, run the risk of unbalanced cells. Doing this with Cheap drop in batteries with passive balancers and no Bluetooth to the BMS may end in tears. I have friends who went this route and now regret it. Active balancers are far superior for maintaining cell balance.

 

[12vDC]

It may depend on how you use your batteries. Those living aboard a boat and doing electric cooking, charging off high output chargers, run the risk of unbalanced cells. Doing this with Cheap drop in batteries with passive balancers and no Bluetooth to the BMS may end in tears. I have friends who went this route and now regret it. Active balancers are far superior for maintaining cell balance.

this is true for advanced users. But for myself, and presumably for the OP, none of that will be necessary.

for my van, I chose a large residential panel with a Voc of 70V. I regularly see 14.6 off the controller so I’m hopeful I’m getting decent balancing off of that.

to be fair, I do not spend more than four days at a time in my van, and the largest consumers are the microwave, and the Keurig which displays over 130A for an approximate minute. The 3000W inverter is serving me well so far. and from my relative experience bluetooth is not necessary.

my mates range rover build however, he lives off his bluetooth monitoring as he has nothing else to display current status/history.

 

[TimE]

this is true for advanced users. But for myself, and presumably for the OP, none of that will be necessary.

for my van, I chose a large residential panel with a Voc of 70V. I regularly see 14.6 off the controller so I’m hopeful I’m getting decent balancing off of that.

to be fair, I do not spend more than four days at a time in my van, and the largest consumers are the microwave, and the Keurig which displays over 130A for an approximate minute. The 3000W inverter is serving me well so far. and from my relative experience bluetooth is not necessary.

my mates range rover build however, he lives off his bluetooth monitoring as he has nothing else to display current status/history.

For an RV, bluetooth and active balancing is not such an issue. If your battery has a shut down. You get to go and eat at the pub?
On a boat, you may be entering a harbour in bad weather at night. Your battery shuts down and the navigation lights on out, the radar and autopilot stops working. The chart plotter and depth sounder go off as well as all the lights in the boat. It could quickly turn into a disaster.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Can you highlight the pros/cons for the two batteries I listed?

Thanks for your reply!!

I bought my battery from the list that Will Prowse has on his website (he’s the owner of this DIY forum). He does list Litime on his site but not LION. Not sure why. He recently removed Battleborn from that list because of several reasons that @12vDC listed, but their warranty apparently also excludes manufacturing defects and only covers design defects. One of the reasons that Litime is popular is they know shoddy workmanship at the factory happens on occasion and they are pretty quick to replace them.

I really wanted a Bluetooth BMS so I could troubleshoot the system if needed, which the Litime doesn’t have. So I went with the Powerurus 200Ah with a 200A Bluetooth BMS. The 200Ah size fits better where I need it than 2x100Ah.

I spent over a year learning about these lifepo4 batteries and watched a lot of Will’s tear down videos. I’m really really glad I didn’t fall for marketing schemes designed to make me want to buy NOW, lol! Wasn’t easy to do.

So I agree with the other person, learn and study as much as you can. Some batteries don’t have many third party reviews and so you have to rely and trust and know how to read their spec sheets. I don’t know how, so I skipped all those batteries. Instead, I bought from this list:

I don't really care about BT so LiTime might be my pick.

If this will be your only battery, I recommend getting Bluetooth. Cells getting out of balance is a real thing and if you don’t stay on top of it (how would you know without Bluetooth to read cell voltages?), then worst case scenario is your BMS shuts down and you won’t know if it’s a cell imbalance thing gone rogue or if the BMS has simply fried itself. However, if you have multiple batteries, then you can just swap them out.


I bought my battery from the list that Will Prowse has on his website (he’s the owner of this DIY forum). He does list Litime on his site but not LION. Not sure why. He recently removed Battleborn from that list because of several reasons that @12vDC listed, but their warranty apparently also excludes manufacturing defects and only covers design defects. One of the reasons that Litime is popular is they know shoddy workmanship at the factory happens on occasion and they are pretty quick to replace them.

I really wanted a Bluetooth BMS so I could troubleshoot the system if needed, which the Litime doesn’t have. So I went with the Powerurus 200Ah with a 200A Bluetooth BMS. The 200Ah size fits better where I need it than 2x100Ah.

I spent over a year learning about these lifepo4 batteries and watched a lot of Will’s tear down videos. I’m really really glad I didn’t fall for marketing schemes designed to make me want to buy NOW, lol! Wasn’t easy to do.

So I agree with the other person, learn and study as much as you can. Some batteries don’t have many third party reviews and so you have to rely and trust and know how to read their spec sheets. I don’t know how, so I skipped all those batteries. Instead, I bought from this list:

LiFePO4 Batteries for Offgrid and Mobile Solar

The lithium batteries below are considered "Drop-in Lead Acid Replacement" because you can use them with standard 12/24/48 volt solar charge controllers/chargers/inverters and more. Simply hook them...

www.mobile-solarpower.com

Scroll down a bit to see the Powerurus batteries. These are made by Roypow, who has a long reputation for making lithium batteries. Will has had nothing but good things to say about these, here’sa tear down video he did:

Looks like Powerurus is getting aggressive with their pricing, the 100Ah model us on sale for $340, but there’s another $20 off via a coupon, so it’s $320 total for quality cells, high and low temperature protection and Bluetooth BMS.

 

[12vDC]

Agreed on the LiTime customer service.

I believe Power Queen is made by LiTime. I just purchased 3 PQ Minis. Upon initial charge 1 of them wouldnt budge past 14.25V. I contacted them and received a response with a USPS return label the next day.

Problem was, the USPS would NOT take the batteries. I looked up all their regulations and could have argued but instead I went home and asked PQ for a Fedex return label, and received it the next day. After the return logged in their system, I received the replacement battery two days later.

They were on sale from their eBay store with a coupon. $200 each. Great customer service in my experience. (I wonder how much hassle I would have received from Battleborn and how long it would have taken to satisfactorily resolve.)