Netherlands buying from Alibaba ?

[CostOptimizer]

Hi all,

After being charged at more than 2x the price in the Netherlands for my previous solar system, I decide to study and order things myself. Many people in NL advised me against buying from Alibaba, but I find it ridiculous to pay at least 50% extra to the shops that also will by from Alibaba to serve me.

I don't understand why everyone in the Netherlands is happy at 450Wp/panel max, while the world is already moving above 600Wp.
Some suppliers gave me some bullshit reasons like (1) more Wp means bigger and less safe while mounting, (2) 585 Wp is more for industrial setting and not for home setting. I however think the only reasons why the Netherlands don't have latest panels are (1) because the suppliers want to buy cheap the out-fashioned 400-450Wp and sell in the Netherlands at a premium, and (2) the certification program for Solar Installer in the Netherlands is moving very slowly behind the development of the panel technology.

Also about price: On Alibaba I can source a string system at 0.55$ / Wp (Growatt string inverter + Jinko Topcon N-type of at least 585 Wp + frame + cables + M4 connector), delivered to my door (seller paying all the tax, with eco-term named DDP), in the Netherlands the cheapest is more than 0.8 $ / Wp and with smaller panels (max 450 Wp)

How about other EU DIY-ers here ?

 

[wpns]

Well, Ali Express in the US is kind of a crap shoot, sometimes you get good stuff, sometimes you get broken junk (or the wrong thing), and it takes way longer than you think, and they really want you to use their app (because the website can't infect your phone?), but I buy stuff from them frequently, and it usually works out OK, at a fraction of the cost of other solutions.
I'm not sure you grok the size, mass, fragility, and installation requirements of 600W-class panels, or what you'd do if one doesn't work after you install it, but let us know how it works out. I can't tell from the above what the shipping costs are, or if you'll need a proper loading dock to receive them, and US vendors don't seem to want to ship less than full pallets because of the risk of damage to loose panels, but again, the risk/reward calculation is different for everyone.

 

[DPC]

Items imported to the EU from China might be subject to duties.
You might need to use an import broker to lubricate the right palms.
If you live in a place like Rotterdam or close by, you can go directly to the port and collect your items, fill out the paper work and pay any associated costs directly without the use of an import broker.

There are also the risks of special inspection fees to look for contraband you may get stuck with.

Do your homework

 

[Luk88]

Hi, I did my DIY system and I'm EU based (Poland), but I went the opposite route than you Instead of getting bigger panels I took a gamble on a bancrupcy sale of a German company called Solibro. They used to make 120W thin film panels in Europe until it was found these panels deteriorate quickly unless their minus side is grounded (which is not possible with transformer less inverters). I paid very little for them despite them being a new much improved model.

I'm a frequent buyer of stuff from China via Aliexpress and Alibaba. One can save lots of money and get devices a year before they enter a local supply chain.

An example is a tiny solar install I did for a friend's cabin recently. They wanted just one 400W panel and a 1kWh 12V battery. The only inverter available locally that has mppt that goes so low has a maximum AC charging of 20A. A newer model was bought on aliexpress cheaper and with a 40A charger.

One thing to be weary of on Aliexpress is shipping time and stock availability. There are many scammers that advertise "EU stock" especially on expensive and very bulky items like batteries and panels and if you go to purchase you see things like "Free 7 day shipping from France/Spain/Germany" to only then be told a week later, "sorry, this is too popular", it will be at least a month's wait time. Then when I cancelled and asked the guy to get back to me when he really has the stuff in stock he admitted he only does advance sales on such items (lifepo cells in my case) - so he gets a bunch of people hooked on "1 week delivery" and then has them waiting 6 weeks.

But then, there are other sellers that really do have it in stock. The way to recognise them is to check out the comments and see if they have at least few hundred opinions, and recent ones that talk about fast shipping.

A big advantage of Aliexpress is that if they don't ship, you can just cancel and if you choose "I changed my mind" instead of "seller failed to ship" you get your money back in about an hour (I did multiple times, perhaps it also depends on payment method, I use a local method called Blik). However, if you choose "seller failed to ship" it will take 2 days for the seller to click accept or timeout until they send it back.

Then there is Alibaba. Always, ALWAYS use Trade Assurance. Without it you have no way to get your money if you're unhappy. There is a lot of bait and switch on Alibaba on shipping. I got this recently on Lifepo cells. I found a big company that had really good cell price with plenty of good reviews. Their listing said free shipping from China and Europe. If we have it in Europe you get it in a week, if we don't, we ship from China in up to 6 weeks for free.

Fine, I ordered some cells with free shipping from China and I paid with a card. Next days they contact me saying "these cells are not in our EU warehouse" they have to come from China and you haven't paid for that (despite the order literally saying "free shipping from China"). The cost to ship? More than the batteries, bringing the entire cost to more expensive than a local purchase (also in case of a future dispute they'd of course refund the cell cost, none of the shipping cost 80% of which they pocket). Refund time? Up to 14 days.

So, in short, yes there are opportunities, but lots of scams. Would I buy panels from China? I'm not sure. I'd be worried about the state they arrive in and also that shipping, plus taxes will eat up all the savings.

If I was buying new silicon panels now I'd go for 400W, why? They are cheap around here and I have lots of space so I don't mind slightly lower efficiency. I also would like a solid warranty if I was building a non trivial system.

 

[CostOptimizer]

You might need to use an import broker to lubricate the right palms.
If you live in a place like Rotterdam or close by, you can go directly to the port and collect your items, fill out the paper work and pay any associated costs directly without the use of an import broker.
There are also the risks of special inspection fees to look for contraband you may get stuck with.
Do your homework

Yes I am reading and asking importing brokers on this path. I live just 40 minutes from Rotterdam.

 

[CostOptimizer]

But then, there are other sellers that really do have it in stock. The way to recognise them is to check out the comments and see if they have at least few hundred opinions, and recent ones that talk about fast shipping.

This is good tip, I often pay attentino to reviews, but this time I will look for fast shipping as well.

A big advantage of Aliexpress is that if they don't ship, you can just cancel and if you choose "I changed my mind" instead of "seller failed to ship" you get your money back in about an hour (I did multiple times, perhaps it also depends on payment method, I use a local method called Blik). However, if you choose "seller failed to ship" it will take 2 days for the seller to click accept or timeout until they send it back.

Good tip

Then there is Alibaba. Always, ALWAYS use Trade Assurance. Without it you have no way to get your money if you're unhappy. There is a lot of bait and switch on Alibaba on shipping. I got this recently on Lifepo cells. I found a big company that had really good cell price with plenty of good reviews. Their listing said free shipping from China and Europe. If we have it in Europe you get it in a week, if we don't, we ship from China in up to 6 weeks for free.

Fine, I ordered some cells with free shipping from China and I paid with a card. Next days they contact me saying "these cells are not in our EU warehouse" they have to come from China and you haven't paid for that (despite the order literally saying "free shipping from China"). The cost to ship? More than the batteries, bringing the entire cost to more expensive than a local purchase (also in case of a future dispute they'd of course refund the cell cost, none of the shipping cost 80% of which they pocket). Refund time? Up to 14 days.

So, in short, yes there are opportunities, but lots of scams. Would I buy panels from China? I'm not sure. I'd be worried about the state they arrive in and also that shipping, plus taxes will eat up all the savings.

All the good tips. Thanks. I have recently bought an ebike from Alibaba and found out it is cheaper than Aliexpress, even on 1 item.

If I was buying new silicon panels now I'd go for 400W, why? They are cheap around here and I have lots of space so I don't mind slightly lower efficiency. I also would like a solid warranty if I was building a non trivial system.

You are correct that out-fashioned panels are easier to find locally, and with warranty. On one hand my heart feels excited to new tech of the latest 600+ Wp, on another hand my brain says: older means easier to find the panel, also the inverter.

 

[wpns]

Yeah, bang for buck versus the bleeding edge.

 

[cyberfed]

Here's my rule of thumb for those sites. I tend to only use Aliexpress and I tend to only use it for non critical parts and that I don't need right away. I also use paypal to pay because if there is any problems paypal never gives me any problems refunding my money and I dont have to give the merchant my credit card #. Are there great deals to be had on there no doubt! But for me peace of mind of getting a geniune part (when critical) supercedes the cost. I understand not everyone may be in that financial position to do the same. Stick with vendors who have been in business a long time and have good ratings. Even then its a roll of the dice. In my opinion.

Heck, I bought a solar panel the other day from Amazon here locally in the states, it arrived the next day the box was damaged from mis-handling and had scratches on the surface. I sent it back. That panel likely came from a distribution center in my home state. I would be terrified of what the package could look like coming from oversees, as I've gotten some pretty beat up boxes but again my stuff wasn't critical or things that could break. Best of luck.

Cheers

 

[Luk88]

BTW, Amazon was mentioned recently. Sometimes when I find an expensive item on Aliexpress I definitely would like a proper warranty on I'll search for the exact same title on amazon, often finding it for the same price.

 

[Danke]

Yes I am reading and asking importing brokers on this path. I live just 40 minutes from Rotterdam.

If the quote is DDP, all of that is already taken care of and included in the quote price.

 

[CostOptimizer]

Yeah, bang for buck versus the bleeding edge.

What do you mean ?

 

[CostOptimizer]

If the quote is DDP, all of that is already taken care of and included in the quote price.

DDP is way more expensive than CIF, I am studying what I should do to declare in order to do CIF

 

[Danke]

DDP is way more expensive than CIF, I am studying what I should do to declare in order to do CIF

Just responding to your OP and the following up posts.

Also about price: On Alibaba I can source a string system at 0.55$ / Wp (Growatt string inverter + Jinko Topcon N-type of at least 585 Wp + frame + cables + M4 connector), delivered to my door (seller paying all the tax, with eco-term named DDP), in the Netherlands the cheapest is more than 0.8 $ / Wp and with smaller panels (max 450 Wp)

I have done both. CIF didn’t save much, especially considering the hassle of doing everything myself. Time and money.

I mostly just do DDP now.

 

[houseofancients]

Hi all,

After being charged at more than 2x the price in the Netherlands for my previous solar system, I decide to study and order things myself. Many people in NL advised me against buying from Alibaba, but I find it ridiculous to pay at least 50% extra to the shops that also will by from Alibaba to serve me.

I don't understand why everyone in the Netherlands is happy at 450Wp/panel max, while the world is already moving above 600Wp.
Some suppliers gave me some bullshit reasons like (1) more Wp means bigger and less safe while mounting, (2) 585 Wp is more for industrial setting and not for home setting. I however think the only reasons why the Netherlands don't have latest panels are (1) because the suppliers want to buy cheap the out-fashioned 400-450Wp and sell in the Netherlands at a premium, and (2) the certification program for Solar Installer in the Netherlands is moving very slowly behind the development of the panel technology.

Also about price: On Alibaba I can source a string system at 0.55$ / Wp (Growatt string inverter + Jinko Topcon N-type of at least 585 Wp + frame + cables + M4 connector), delivered to my door (seller paying all the tax, with eco-term named DDP), in the Netherlands the cheapest is more than 0.8 $ / Wp and with smaller panels (max 450 Wp)

How about other EU DIY-ers here ?

ordered from alibaba before, ALLWAYS ask for a ddp quote, or you'll be in for a nasty surprise...
Also, look for suppliers that have stock in Rotterdam ( quite a few do)...

means you'll have to pick it up yourself there, but saves you 2-3 months shipping time

 

[CostOptimizer]

ordered from alibaba before, ALLWAYS ask for a ddp quote, or you'll be in for a nasty surprise...

You meant with anything less than DDP then the seller might let we pay for many hidden shipping & port & custom fees ?

 

[houseofancients]

You meant with anything less than DDP then the seller might let we pay for many shipping & port & custom fees ?

Or "the douane" will rip you a new one

 

[CostOptimizer]

Or "the douane" will rip you a new one

Is there a thick bureaucracy and complicated importing law that the custom officer can interprete the law in many ways ?

 

[houseofancients]

Is there a thick bureaucracy and complicated importing law that the custom officer can interprete the law in many ways ?

Depending on exactly how the supplier puts it on the boxes / shipping slip..
IMHO not worth the potential headache