Off Grid Heat

[Deleted member 165]

I'm right on the edge of being able to use ventless. They don't work well over 4,500 and probably not at all over 6,000 feet, because of the oxygen sensors. So, simply being over 6,000 feet means your lungs are getting less oxygen than in a room heated by these. So, I figure they are safe. I'm mostly attracted to the fact that all you need is a gas line and an outlet. Very clean and easy install. I'm starting from scratch by the way, building a tiny house out in the boonies, so propane is kind of my only option other than wood.

 

[Deleted member 165]

Possibly, but with geothermal, you need multiple pumps and motors running all of the time. You'd have to increase solar sizing for that, and you'd have to build a separate dog house just to put the geo stuff, since the house is only 375 sq ft. The cost of a geothermal system vs the cost of propane and a heater....... propane wins.
Solar heating in the winter can be done, but not reliable in inclimate weather or night. Solar heat storage requires space. Again, only 375 sq ft.

Exactly. I DO intend to install solar heat of some kind on my south wall, but it will supplement the propane heat, not the other way around.

 

[mtt04]

In Nova Scotia lots of folks are using solar air heaters as a supplement to a core heating solution.

They are passive and have a solar powered fan that turns on once the air in the outside panel gets to a certain temp.

Not the pop can ones but the commercial made ones with flat panels.

I had a pop can one in my garage for years. It actually worked. But certainly the commercially made ones are better.

Maybe have a look at those

 

[mtt04]

I'm right on the edge of being able to use ventless. They don't work well over 4,500 and probably not at all over 6,000 feet, because of the oxygen sensors. So, simply being over 6,000 feet means your lungs are getting less oxygen than in a room heated by these. So, I figure they are safe. I'm mostly attracted to the fact that all you need is a gas line and an outlet. Very clean and easy install. I'm starting from scratch by the way, building a tiny house out in the boonies, so propane is kind of my only option other than wood.

Interesting....

I guess our cabins would be under 3000 feet so I didn't know there was an altitude issue.

 

[Deleted member 165]

Interesting....

I guess our cabins would be under 3000 feet so I didn't know there was an altitude issue.

They should work perfectly at that altitude. In case you didn't see the other reply-they also add quite a bit of humidity to the air, so that's a consideration. I run a humidifier in the winter anyway so it's an extra selling point.

 

[mtt04]

They should work perfectly at that altitude. In case you didn't see the other reply-they also add quite a bit of humidity to the air, so that's a consideration. I run a humidifier in the winter anyway so it's an extra selling point.

We've had them for years with zero issues. Gas line just goes through the wall from a barbecue tank and super simple to run. They run on a battery as well.

As I say they are used in freezing weather and just work.

BTW apparently there are some vented ones out that are even better than the empires.
Just saying

 

[Deleted member 165]

We've had them for years with zero issues. Gas line just goes through the wall from a barbecue tank and super simple to run. They run on a battery as well.

As I say they are used in freezing weather and just work.

BTW apparently there are some vented ones out that are even better than the empires.
Just saying

You're using ventless off a 20# tank? All the ones I've seen say that they require a 100# tank minimum. I should check out these Empires.

 

[mtt04]

You're using ventless off a 20# tank? All the ones I've seen say that they require a 100# tank minimum. I should check out these Empires.

Yup used them for years. The boys just take a barbecue tank with them when they go into the woods.
Easy peasy

 

[Getyourbone]

You MUST have at least a 100# tank to run the ventless fireplaces/stoves....

I can confirm this...

usually end up proving people right by attempting to prove’em wrong and that is exactly what happened...

 

[mtt04]

I can only speak to what we use. 25 lb tanks work. I checked with one of my guys and he thinks they are 10-12,000 btu

The rest of it I'll leave to the people who know everything

 

[mtt04]

I'm working on a tiny home that is 100% off grid, and its time for some heat. I have 375 square feet, and I'm looking at one of those ventless propane fireplaces. It's rated to heat 700 square feet. Anyone have experience using one of these units? Happy with it? I plan on running it on a 100# propane tank.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pleasant-Hearth-35-75-in-Dual-Burner-Cherry-Gas-Fireplace/1000641799

To help you out Schlagger here is video on a Rinnai model which is light years newer than ours.. I beleive he is using a large tank. Not sure. But the principal of them is what is important.
Good luck
This may help you in your selection

 

[Rider]

To help you out Schlagger here is video on a Rinnai model which is light years newer than ours.. I beleive he is using a large tank. Not sure. But the principal of them is what is important.
Good luck
This may help you in your selection

The larger of those models is very much like my vented kerosene heater. Pretty much the same flue pipe system, draws air from the outside, vents to the outside. I used one to heat the ex's greenhouse, and when she left, I moved the heater into my garage. Nice being able to work in the winter. Anyway, the kero heaters work really well, but kero is a lot more expensive now than it was when I first installed it.

Way too big for your small place, most have a BTU rating of 20,000 and up.

 

[Getyourbone]

@Getyourbone
What? I've run a small ventless heater on a 5lb tank without issue. If we're talking about a well-insulated tiny-home in the OP, a full sized fireplace is oversized.

Likely talking apples, bananas and oranges...

I have a 30,000 btu ventless wall that just did not want to chooch on a 20 lb. ..just fine on 100 lb

 

[Deleted member 165]

The model I'm looking at is 20,000 BTU. I'm sure we are all talking about different sizes, as the small ones run fine on 20# tanks. In either case, I'd rather have the larger tanks anyway.

 

[PHoganDive]

The liquid propane in the tank has to vaporize and then pressurize the tank. As you use it, the vaporizing will cool the liquid propane down. The cooler propane won't vaporize or pressurize the tank as well. It's likely the larger units use propane quickly enough that small tanks cant vaporize enough propane without getting too cold, restricting the vaporization and pressure in the tank.

 

[Deleted member 165]

The liquid propane in the tank has to vaporize and then pressurize the tank. As you use it, the vaporizing will cool the liquid propane down. The cooler propane won't vaporize or pressurize the tank as well. It's likely the larger units use propane quickly enough that small tanks cant vaporize enough propane without getting too cold, restricting the vaporization and pressure in the tank.

Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. How would the length of pipe run affect this?

 

[svetz]

Let's see... Propane is C3H8, in theory burning with oxygen is C3H8 + 5 O2 -> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O. In practice you'll get some soot and carbon monoxide.

For every lb of propane burned you'd get 3 lbs of CO2, 1.6 lbs of water, remove 3.6 lbs of oxygen and generate ~21,513 BTUs.

 

[mtt04]

Interesting info

 

[burtinator]

How about an infrared heating panel. I used to use this panel in my previous bathroom before i had central heating. Worked like a charm, could be 18°C in the room and you still have a warm feeling even in bare skin if your in front of the panel. So instead of heating the space you're heating yourself, which is a lot more efficient.

 

[Deleted member 165]

How about an infrared heating panel. I used to use this panel in my previous bathroom before i had central heating. Worked like a charm, could be 18°C in the room and you still have a warm feeling even in bare skin if your in front of the panel. So instead of heating the space you're heating yourself, which is a lot more efficient.

Electric heat is what I'm trying to avoid. I guess I wasn't clear about that.