Possible Voltage Spikes from Victron Orion DC-DC Frying My Truck Electronics?

[featherlite]

Is it a reasonable possibility that a voltage spike from one of the electrical devices in my trailer has flowed into my truck’s electrical system?

Respecting my 2018 Silverado truck, both the Throttle Body Motor ($500 to replace) and the Active Grill Shutter Motor ($1,100 to replace) failed last week. It seems odd to me that they both failed around the same time. The truck’s mileage is 78k.

I not so long ago installed a Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated 12/12/18, in my trailer. I have only used the Orion a few times.

To install the Orion, I ran a 2AWG positive wire from the Orion to the positive battery post on my truck starter battery (properly fused), and a shorter 2AWG wire from a frame member at the rear of the truck to the Orion. I ran 6AWG wires from the Orion to the respective positive and negative bus bars servicing my 12v Lifepo4 battery system located in the trailer.

Other Victron MPPT chargers and inverters are also connected to those same bus bars.

My chargers are all set at 13.8v, bulk and absorption.

If so, I wonder if the voltage spike was generated by the Orion or from one of the other devices which, in turn, might have fed the spike through the Orion to the truck.

I am afraid to continue using the Orion.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Dave in AZ]

Why would you connect the orion negative to the TRUCK frame? If you have an isolated, it is intended for a trailer chassis that is ISOLATED FROM THE STARTER BATTERY NEGATIVE. You specifically use an isolated one for things like a trailer, where the ground chassis is isolated, and you keep it that way. Worried about a voltage spike from Orion? THEN DON'T CONNECT IT TO A METAL FRAME THAT TOUCHES EVERY OTHER ELECTRONIC PART OF THE TRUCK! Run a negative back to starter battery, and let the Orion keep both positive and negative isolated from rest of truck as designed.

You're supposed connect a non-isolated one back to starter battery with a cable, also. Using a chassis for negative return creates ground loops and issues.
Here, the forum's mobile dc negative and grounding guide:

Grounding Made simpler - Part 4: Mobile systems.

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...

diysolarforum.com

 

[S Davis]

So you are using the frame for your negative D/C with no dedicated negative back to the engine bay?

 

[S Davis]

I run a 50 amp Redarc in my 2019 Chevy with no issues charging 560ah of LifeP04, but I have a 1/0 DLO positive and negative back to the secondary battery in the engine bay.

 

[mikefitz]

voltage spike was generated by the Orion

This is unlikely. The most probable is the alternator or the control electrics for the alternator, being faulty. ( some alternators are under control of the engine ecu).

Run a negative back to starter battery,

Many vehicles have battery current monitoring in the path between battery ternimal negative and frame/vehicle metal. When adding DC to DC chargers its critical to connect the negative to frame/ metal rather than the battery post.

 

[justinm001]

Why would you connect the orion negative to the TRUCK frame? If you have an isolated, it is intended for a trailer chassis that is ISOLATED FROM THE STARTER BATTERY NEGATIVE. You specifically use an isolated one for things like a trailer, where the ground chassis is isolated, and you keep it that way. Worried about a voltage spike from Orion? THEN DON'T CONNECT IT TO A METAL FRAME THAT TOUCHES EVERY OTHER ELECTRONIC PART OF THE TRUCK! Run a negative back to starter battery, and let the Orion keep both positive and negative isolated from rest of truck as designed.

You're supposed connect a non-isolated one back to starter battery with a cable, also. Using a chassis for negative return creates ground loops and issues.
Here, the forum's mobile dc negative and grounding guide:

Grounding Made simpler - Part 4: Mobile systems.

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...

diysolarforum.com

Ground loops don't cause electrical issues they cause RF interference and communication issues. Electricity having multiple paths doesn't cause issues.

Running an isolated ground as non isolated doesn't cause negative effects.

Shunts, smart alternators and other electrical sensors can be a good reason to run isolated. Also it's nice to keep all separated in some situations.

I'm not seeing any situation where the ground can cause any of OPs issues. Only an 18a Orion I cant see any issue with alternator draw causing voltage spikes or anything else.

 

[corn18]

The Orion is a diode. Current can only flow one way. How could it get to the truck?

 

[S Davis]

The Orion is a diode. Current can only flow one way. How could it get to the truck?

Running d/c negative back through the frame could cause issues with the vehicle’s electrical system.

 

[featherlite]

I appreciate all of your comments. Thank you!

At this point, my assumption is that my Orion is properly wired.

As an aside, I think mikefitz agrees with my assumption.

If anybody disagrees, please let us know and I will open another thread so that we can discuss this important matter, wherein I will give my reasoning and supporting documentation.

I say important, because my understanding is that many members of this Forum have trailers, like me, with an isolated Orion installed in the trailer, and we all need to understand how to properly wire the Orion.

 

[featherlite]

So far, if my understanding is correct, mikefitz and justinm001 are of the opinion that neither the Orion nor the other devices are likely a source of my truck’s OEM electrical system problems.

Although maybe not directly relevant to my current problem, last night, I watched a video where a Victron installer advised not to use a wire to “ground” the metal case of an inverter to the frame of an RV, because, in the event of a fault, the fault might damage the vehicles electrical system. Which raises a whole new can of worms.

 

[justinm001]

Running d/c negative back through the frame could cause issues with the vehicle’s electrical system.

What specific issues could it cause with the electrical system.

 

[corn18]

I have the Orion 12/12 18A isolated installed in my trailer. I connected the Orion + input to pin 4 of the 7 pin connector. I connected the Orion - input to pin 1 of the 7 pin connector. My truck has a 10ga wire with a 30A fuse connected to pin 4, so that is plenty to supply the 12/12 18.



The Orion + output is connected to the Lynx via an 8ga wire with a 30A auto reset breaker. The Orion - output is connected to the battery negative terminal via the Lynx. I did not chassis ground the Orion to the trailer. This seemed like the logical way to connect it.

I wonder what pin 1 of the 7 pin connector is actually connected to on the truck side? It is a ground so it might just be connected to the truck frame.

 

[justinm001]

I have the Orion 12/12 18A isolated installed in my trailer. I connected the Orion + input to pin 4 of the 7 pin connector. I connected the Orion - input to pin 1 of the 7 pin connector. My truck has a 10ga wire with a 30A fuse connected to pin 4, so that is plenty to supply the 12/12 18.

View attachment 209188

The Orion + output is connected to the Lynx via an 8ga wire with a 30A auto reset breaker. The Orion - output is connected to the battery negative terminal. I did not chassis ground the Orion to the trailer. This seemed like the logical way to connect it.

I wonder what pin 1 of the 7 pin connector is actually connected to on the truck side? It is a ground so it might just be connected to the truck frame.

Mine goes straight to frame ground. Interesting enough I have some switch to change the 7 pin to a 6pin or whatever is the commercial type. Have accidentally flipped it and all the trailer lights are messed up.

 

[S Davis]

What specific issues could it cause with the electrical system.

Well it just makes sense that running d/c amperage through the grounding system of the vehicle could cause interference with all the electronics, and I see nothing in the literature about it being ok to install it that way.

 

[justinm001]

Well it just makes sense that running d/c amperage through the grounding system of the vehicle could cause interference with all the electronics, and I see nothing in the literature about it being ok to install it that way.

How? They literally make both isolated and nonisolated versions. You can have 10 different DC systems all sharing the same frame ground and not a single issue because they aren't sharing a positive.

On my coach the factory frame grounds the 24v chassis and both 12v chassis electrical systems, the positive is combined through a Vanner to equalize the 12v banks. It's ALSO SOP for all class A/B/C to combine their house and chassis grounds to frame.

Just because the negative is combined doesn't affect the systems because the positives are still isolated.

There could be issues with shunts and smart alternators and such but only if the system isn't designed for multiple systems. A Chevy truck is designed as a work truck first and used for all kinds of commercial applications with additional systems. I highly doubt they have any sensors or issues. If a Mercedes or euro vehicle I can see it being an issue.

Outside of that the only issue is ground loops and this is solely a rf and communication interference issue, and even then it's not really noticable unless you have a CB or something specific.

 

[HarryN]

If for some reason, the alternator gets disconnected or poorly connected back to the starter battery, then spikes can start to blow out electrical parts.

The connection pathways need to be braided cable as there is a lot of noise and high frequency stuff going on.

A vehicle in use for 5 years could have some straps that are not in perfect condition or the connections to the body frame are rusty.

Some vehicles also require grounding to a "factory official ground points". On Transit and Sprinters vans this is a big deal vs the older concept of attaching ground wires where we think are ok.

 

[S Davis]

How? They literally make both isolated and nonisolated versions. You can have 10 different DC systems all sharing the same frame ground and not a single issue because they aren't sharing a positive.

On my coach the factory frame grounds the 24v chassis and both 12v chassis electrical systems, the positive is combined through a Vanner to equalize the 12v banks. It's ALSO SOP for all class A/B/C to combine their house and chassis grounds to frame.

Just because the negative is combined doesn't affect the systems because the positives are still isolated.

There could be issues with shunts and smart alternators and such but only if the system isn't designed for multiple systems. A Chevy truck is designed as a work truck first and used for all kinds of commercial applications with additional systems. I highly doubt they have any sensors or issues. If a Mercedes or euro vehicle I can see it being an issue.

Outside of that the only issue is ground loops and this is solely a rf and communication interference issue, and even then it's not really noticable unless you have a CB or something specific.

I got ya but that coach electrical system is probably designed for the negative return path with low resistance connections. Just don’t assume running d/c current through any chassis is ok.

 

[justinm001]

I got ya but that coach electrical system is probably designed for the negative return path with low resistance connections. Just don’t assume running d/c current through any chassis is ok.

But why wouldn't it be specifically? The only thing possible would be a smart alt but even then I doubt it's an issue it only affects the output of the alt not the voltage or anything.

Do you have an example of any situation where using ground on multiple circuits would affect ones voltage? Maybe if sending thousands of amps through a small frame itll lower the total voltage but OPs talking 18a

 

[Checkthisout]

Look at the freeze data from when the codes set. It will show what at least battery voltage was.

Also, what was wrong with the shutter control and throttle body?

Just check engine lights? What were the codes?

If this is a rust belt truck make sure you have a good ground path between the frame and battery.

 

[S Davis]

But why wouldn't it be specifically? The only thing possible would be a smart alt but even then I doubt it's an issue it only affects the output of the alt not the voltage or anything.

Do you have an example of any situation where using ground on multiple circuits would affect ones voltage? Maybe if sending thousands of amps through a small frame itll lower the total voltage but OPs talking 18a

I am not talking about ground, this is negative path back to your power source.