Signature Solar Customer Support and EG4 6000EX inverter issues

[Nomad Mods]

@Nomad Mods

I just remembered I have a 12v Renogy charger that will sit in Float mode indefinitely until the battery drops to a certain voltage. They call it “Boost Return Voltage”.

That voltage is 13.2v. When translated to 48v, that’s 52.8v. So I’m beginning to think the EG4 6000 has a similar feature where it depends strictly on a certain voltage to trigger Bulk charging again.

View attachment 142531

I think this is fine, you could probably consider your batteries fully charged at only 54.0v.

View attachment 142532


This is probably a feature to prevent batteries being raised to a high voltage too often, as it’s not really the best for the batteries health. Some people rarely charge to 100% except for top balancing the cells. But like I said, 54v could almost be considered 100%. Or at least somewhere between 99% and 100%.

I’m almost entirely convinced now that this is how the 6000ex is functioning.

We ran all kinds of loads last night and this morning in order to drop our SOC for a test. We were able to get down to 53%. The lowest we have ever been in 4 years of full time boondocking on the road. So far, it hasn't failed back to float and we are past the time and wattage when it normally happens.

One thing to not is that the inverter is reading 53.4v when my multimeter on the battery terminals is reading 52.8v. So there is some discrepancy there.

We live off of batteries. It wouldn't make sense to not charge them all the way when possible

 

[Nomad Mods]

@Nomad Mods

I just remembered I have a 12v Renogy charger that will sit in Float mode indefinitely until the battery drops to a certain voltage. They call it “Boost Return Voltage”.

That voltage is 13.2v. When translated to 48v, that’s 52.8v. So I’m beginning to think the EG4 6000 has a similar feature where it depends strictly on a certain voltage to trigger Bulk charging again.

View attachment 142531

I think this is fine, you could probably consider your batteries fully charged at only 54.0v.

View attachment 142532


This is probably a feature to prevent batteries being raised to a high voltage too often, as it’s not really the best for the batteries health. Some people rarely charge to 100% except for top balancing the cells. But like I said, 54v could almost be considered 100%. Or at least somewhere between 99% and 100%.

I’m almost entirely convinced now that this is how the 6000ex is functioning.

It’s not like you are not charging at all if you don’t drop below the threshold, it’s just a more relaxed and less jarring charge than if you were to charge to 56v.

Here's a new one! This has never happened before. The voltage spike that usually drops us back in to a float state actually bumped up our PV wattage today. There is definitely something going on with the programming of the inverter. I don't want to have to drain my power down in order for it to work correctly the next day. We base our usage on weather. If it is going to be overcast all day the next day, we will make sure not to do too much after dark so we know we can get charged back up the next day. But if we don't draw the bank down low enough, it won't work properly and we can't leave without fear of it not charging if a cloud passes overhead while we are away.

 

[42OhmsPA]

@Nomad Mods I'm not sure if it helps but I'm wondering if you don't have a battery issue that is causing this... I'm essentially running the same inverter, TP6048, and don't see any of the issues you are experiencing.
Are you able to see the individual cell readings of the AT packs / are you able to communicate with the BMS's?

 

[Nomad Mods]

@Nomad Mods I'm not sure if it helps but I'm wondering if you don't have a battery issue that is causing this... I'm essentially running the same inverter, TP6048, and don't see any of the issues you are experiencing.
Are you able to see the individual cell readings of the AT packs / are you able to communicate with the BMS's?

Individual batteries read 13.28, 13.27, 13.28, and 13.31. The 13.31 is the first battery in line from the positive. So with 1000w coming in I would assume that slight difference was from the fact that things just started charging for the day.

What is your typical SOC in the morning? By us forcing a lower SOC (53%) today, we were able to have it not fail on us. We typically wake up with around 70%+ and it always fails.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Individual batteries read 13.28, 13.27, 13.28, and 13.31. The 13.31 is the first battery in line from the positive. So with 1000w coming in I would assume that slight difference was from the fact that things just started charging for the day.

I take that as a no, you can't communicate with the BMS in the packs. I'm wondering if you have a cell running that is disabling charging and throwing you to float...

What is your typical SOC in the morning? By us forcing a lower SOC (53%) today, we were able to have it not fail on us. We typically wake up with around 70%+ and it always fails.

Could be anywhere from empty to 65%+. I do not use the SOC in solar assistant for anything, I use my WonVon Shunt for SOC reference; I also have it programmed for a 420ah bank but it is 460ah if using empty to full cell capacity.

 

[Nomad Mods]

I take that as a no, you can't communicate with the BMS in the packs. I'm wondering if you have a cell running that is disabling charging and throwing you to float...

Could be anywhere from empty to 65%+. I do not use the SOC in solar assistant for anything, I use my WonVon Shunt for SOC reference; I also have it programmed for a 420ah bank but it is 460ah if using empty to full cell capacity.

I have a BMV-712 that is communicating with the Raspberry Pi to give the SOC on my Solar Assistant.

My old Outback FM80 that is powering 960w of panels on the roof never stops charging. So it is not an issue with the batteries.

The 4060w of panels on the 6000ex are what are failing. So it has to be an issue with the MPPT in the inverter. Or some programming involved that doesn't allow bulk charging unless voltage or SOC is lower than what we typically see in the mornings

 

[42OhmsPA]

I have a BMV-712 that is communicating with the Raspberry Pi to give the SOC on my Solar Assistant.

My old Outback FM80 that is powering 960w of panels on the roof never stops charging. So it is not an issue with the batteries.

The 4060w of panels on the 6000ex are what are failing. So it has to be an issue with the MPPT in the inverter. Or some programming involved that doesn't allow bulk charging unless voltage or SOC is lower than what we typically see in the mornings

That's an awesome setup. Makes me question why I haven't started a "travel trailer" build yet...

What are the charging settings of the Outback vs the EG4? Sorry if that was asked already.

 

[Nomad Mods]

That's an awesome setup. Makes me question why I haven't started a "travel trailer" build yet...

What are the charging settings of the Outback vs the EG4? Sorry if that was asked already.

Set to the same specs

 

[42OhmsPA]

Set to the same specs

Try offsetting them by a few 1/10s of a V if you haven't already, especially after it acts up again.

 

[Nomad Mods]

Try offsetting them by a few 1/10s of a V if you haven't already, especially after it acts up again.

We have tried as far off as 1.5v lower on the Outback and the 6000ex acts the same.

 

[Zwy]

They are Ampere Time batteries. 14.4kwh.

It does appear that it is failing at 54v. All of my settings are correct according to what Sig Solar thinks the should be. I have a 56.8v bulk and battery charged at 54v. Still doesn't make sense that after a PV reset, it realizes that it needs to be charging.

I thought maybe I was seeing the 90V lock on PV voltage in the morning, one inverter might be at 350V PV input voltage and the other at 90V. If I turned off PV and turned it back on, both EG4 6500EX would read the same PV voltage, about 350V. Each inverter only has one string of 8 530W panels connected to one MPPT on each inverter. However, what I really think is occurring is one MPPT has completed a sweep and adjusted (or that is the string higher on the array) and the other hasn't performed the sweep. Waiting 15 minutes the MPPT probably would have swept and PV voltage would be in the 350V range. I would need a camera to record it, but I think that is what is occurring. I don't consider this to be a problem.

What are your charge settings and are you using USE?

 

[Nomad Mods]

I thought maybe I was seeing the 90V lock on PV voltage in the morning, one inverter might be at 350V PV input voltage and the other at 90V. If I turned off PV and turned it back on, both EG4 6500EX would read the same PV voltage, about 350V. Each inverter only has one string of 8 530W panels connected to one MPPT on each inverter. However, what I really think is occurring is one MPPT has completed a sweep and adjusted (or that is the string higher on the array) and the other hasn't performed the sweep. Waiting 15 minutes the MPPT probably would have swept and PV voltage would be in the 350V range. I would need a camera to record it, but I think that is what is occurring. I don't consider this to be a problem.

What are your charge settings and are you using USE?

My inverter is the 6000ex. I have allowed the MPPT to fail for over an hour sitting at 500w for that whole time while the batteries were about 73%. Then I reset the PV breaker and instantly get 2000w+ coming in.

Today's test was forcing the SOC to be down to 53% (we are never that low by morning) and watching. The voltage was sitting at 190ish like it does, but this time when it jumped to 230ish it actually increased the PV production instead of dropping down to a float like it does every day for us. There must be something in the inverter that doesn't allow it to go to bulk if it isn't a lower SOC.

 

[Zwy]

My inverter is the 6000ex. I have allowed the MPPT to fail for over an hour sitting at 500w for that whole time while the batteries were about 73%. Then I reset the PV breaker and instantly get 2000w+ coming in.

Today's test was forcing the SOC to be down to 53% (we are never that low by morning) and watching. The voltage was sitting at 190ish like it does, but this time when it jumped to 230ish it actually increased the PV production instead of dropping down to a float like it does every day for us. There must be something in the inverter that doesn't allow it to go to bulk if it isn't a lower SOC.

List the charging settings.

 

[Nomad Mods]

List the charging settings.

I already did multiple times in this thread, but here we go again

14- USE
17- 56.8
18- 54.0
19- 40.8
20- 46
21- 54

Confirmed by SS to be correct

 

[mountkay]

I thought maybe I was seeing the 90V lock on PV

Nomad isn’t having this 90v phenomenon. They are experiencing something different.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I already did multiple times in this thread, but here we go again

14- USE
17- 56.8
18- 54.0
19- 40.8
20- 46
21- 54

Confirmed by SS to be correct

What do setting 18 and 21 mean?
You could try bumping your float voltage to 55.2 (3.45 / cell) to let the cells in the packs balance, at 54 you aren't going to hold them above 3.4 / cell.

 

[Zwy]

Nomad isn’t having this 90v phenomenon. They are experiencing something different.

It's the same thing, the MPPT doesn't perform the sweep.

Several have reported it. I noticed the behavior, in my case it hasn't been an issue.

 

[Nomad Mods]

It's the same thing, the MPPT doesn't perform the sweep.

Several have reported it. I noticed the behavior, in my case it hasn't been an issue.

It seems like it does perform the sweep and every day that I'm at 70% or higher SOC (which is every day) it falls on its face. Today when I ran tons of extra stuff last night and we started at 53% SOC, when it ran it's sweep, it bumbed up to bulk instead of down to float

 

[Zwy]

I already did multiple times in this thread, but here we go again

14- USE
17- 56.8
18- 54.0
19- 40.8
20- 46
21- 54

Confirmed by SS to be correct

Bump 18 to 55V minimum.

The behavior you describe is similar to the Growatt units, float needed to be set fairly high. In my truck camper 24V system, I have float set 0.5V below bulk charge. In your case, try 0.5V to 1.0V below bulk and see what occurs.

 

[Nomad Mods]

Bump 18 to 55V minimum.

The behavior you describe is similar to the Growatt units, float needed to be set fairly high. In my truck camper 24V system, I have float set 0.5V below bulk charge. In your case, try 0.5V to 1.0V below bulk and see what occurs.

I really don't want to be floating my batteries at 55v though. The higher you float them the quicker they degrade, but then again the inverter is reporting about .5v higher than a multimeter directly on the battery terminals.