Aridom82
Learning addict
I would be careful not to go over 88 mph with that thing in my car
The next thing? Inverter or Battery? All in 1?
- Thread starter Markus_EG4
- Start date
Looks nice. I'd like to see a L.F.-18KPV model with thous toroid transformers built in to it as a heavy duty off grid inverter.
My next thought would be an external surge box mounted next to the 18kpv which in turn has automatic soft start with surge suppression. incorporated with a high capacitance charge storage system to help in added amperage capabilities when needed to start high surge items. A plug and play accessory for those using the 18kpv maybe others as well, that need up to 20amp additional inrush current to start items that regularly would time out or shut down the inverter. Once the inverter has started the large surge item, the inrush go's away and the invert handles the normal power. This could possibly be used for several inverters. It could be called The EG4/LUX-POWER KICKER
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It would be nice, as well as opening up a wider potential customer base, if your batteries carried a general UL9450 certificate. There are a few other batteries which do, and as more and more localities are requiring UL9540, they are poised to picking up that market. EG4 could tap into that if they got the certs.
Dan_Austin
New Member
Conduit boxes for the PowerPro with reversible doors. Longer paralleling cables, longer Powerpro to inverter batter cables. Micro-inverters that can communicate with 18Kpv (think 1741sa+) allowing load-side AC coupling. A heat pump water heater that works and is not silly expensive compared to conventional unit...
n2aws
Solar Addict
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It's cool that a company is asking everyday users for input on how to improve the product line. Missing products, missing features, tweaks to existing products/features.
He are some things I've thought about over the last few months:
1) Expanding the capability of the "smart loads" terminals. Right now, it can be used to power non-essential loads based on various criteria. However, what if we reversed the capability? Having it be available for critical loads that always need power? Right now, To use the "smart loads". the main output lugs need to be energized. It seems like they share a relay or something. I'm thinking of being able to wire the main house panel to the 200A lugs.. and a critical loads panel to the "smart loads/gen" port. Set the main terminals to only power on if the battery is above X percent, bt be able to leave the smart loads on until Y percent. The goal would be to set the "main panel" as a load shed at say.. 60% battery, but keep the "smart loads" going until the battery is at 20, 10, 5, 1%... etc.
2) A separate MPPT controller that has 1 or 2 MPPT inputs, capable of 600V voc.. and can communicate with the 6kxp or 18kpv. This would allow people to bring in more solar and track it, without necessarily needing to also increase their inverter output numbers (and cost).
3) Modularized systems. We've all seen the epcube and solix systems now. They look great, but since they "stack" on each other.. if the 3rd battery has an issue, you have to take everything above it off the wall to get to it. Imagine something like a server rack with a blade chassis in it. All the comms/AC/DC connectors are built into the back of the chassis. Inverters, batteries, mppts, etc all just "slide in" to the sever rack, make a positive connection to the connectors in the back, and it's done. You'd do all your AC and DC wiring to the "cabinet", and the individual components don't need anything special. just insert and remove as desired.
4) 120V inputs, across the board: All of these AIO inverter units are nice.. but with the number of people doing overlanding, vanlife, RV, etc.. it'd be awesome if these inverters could take 120V or 240V inputs, so that no matter what the campsite offers, it's useful. Right now, if I have a 6kxp in an RV and pull into a location that only has 120V input, I' still "offgrid" unless I add a chargeverter or some other battery charger) this gets to another point)
5) The chargeverter should have a "per leg" setting. Right now, you can set it for a total power output. Given an RV scenario like above (#4) it'd be nice if you could tell the chargverter to draw "15A per leg" (as an example). If plugged into 120V, it'd output 1800w (15*120). but if connected to 240V with the same setting, it'd output 3600w (15*240). This would allow you to mount hte device neatly and discreetly out of the way, and not have to fiddle with the settings everytime you pulled into a camp with a different power availability. (I realize some places may offer 20A 120v, or 30A 120V, etc.. thats why my example shows 15A.. it'd work with any of those options, *even if* you could have drawn more power from a 30A outlet, the goal would be to have it be more "set and forget", even if it provides lower power than the max theoretical)
6) an EV charger that communicates with the inverters in some way, and makes decisions based on that. ie, don't charge if the house battery is below 85%. OR, "maintain the house battery at 85%" (which would allow the MPPTS in the inverter to draw full power from the PV arrays, and since it knows how much power is available, dynamically change the cars charging rate to maximize the sun to charge the EV without draining the house battery. battery is charged up to your desired mark, and the inverter is still drawing 3,000 watts from the array? Charge the car with 3,000w. some shading occurs, reduce the car charge rate to match available PV. sun comes back out and now there is 8,000w, charge car at 8,000w. (obviously these examples don't mention changing house loads for the sake of simple explanation, but you'd want to factor that in to the overall EV charge rate)
7) With the ever-growing popularity of high voltage DC battery banks, a lineup of HV inverters would be cool. Especially if the sodium ion batteries deliver on some of their promises (the voltages of sodium ion swing heavily based on SOC, so HV inverters would need a wide DC operating votage to accomodate. And if sodium-ion never really takes off, we still have LiFePo4.
8) per circuit, or per device detection capabilities. maybe creating a smart panel-esque system with built in power flow monitoring. Add a relay, and you could have smart load shedding for the entire house. Make the panels flexible and affordable (unlike SPAN and lutron), and available to DIYers.
9) The ability to "AC couple" to the output of offgrid inverters. ie, using a 6,000xp as a "string inverter" for an 18kpv. Example scenario: 6kxp connected to 2 strings of solar panels at a remote building on the property. a barn, workshop, etc. Have the "output" of the 6kxp provide "AC Coupled input" to the 18kpv. 18kpv raises/lowers the frequency to throttle the 6kxp if needed. Bonus points if this additional power generation can be used in the calulations for the EV charge rate listed in #6.
I'm sure I have more ideas, but this has already turned into a book. What do others think? what would you add or change to the above? anyhing obvious I've missed?
He are some things I've thought about over the last few months:
1) Expanding the capability of the "smart loads" terminals. Right now, it can be used to power non-essential loads based on various criteria. However, what if we reversed the capability? Having it be available for critical loads that always need power? Right now, To use the "smart loads". the main output lugs need to be energized. It seems like they share a relay or something. I'm thinking of being able to wire the main house panel to the 200A lugs.. and a critical loads panel to the "smart loads/gen" port. Set the main terminals to only power on if the battery is above X percent, bt be able to leave the smart loads on until Y percent. The goal would be to set the "main panel" as a load shed at say.. 60% battery, but keep the "smart loads" going until the battery is at 20, 10, 5, 1%... etc.
2) A separate MPPT controller that has 1 or 2 MPPT inputs, capable of 600V voc.. and can communicate with the 6kxp or 18kpv. This would allow people to bring in more solar and track it, without necessarily needing to also increase their inverter output numbers (and cost).
3) Modularized systems. We've all seen the epcube and solix systems now. They look great, but since they "stack" on each other.. if the 3rd battery has an issue, you have to take everything above it off the wall to get to it. Imagine something like a server rack with a blade chassis in it. All the comms/AC/DC connectors are built into the back of the chassis. Inverters, batteries, mppts, etc all just "slide in" to the sever rack, make a positive connection to the connectors in the back, and it's done. You'd do all your AC and DC wiring to the "cabinet", and the individual components don't need anything special. just insert and remove as desired.
4) 120V inputs, across the board: All of these AIO inverter units are nice.. but with the number of people doing overlanding, vanlife, RV, etc.. it'd be awesome if these inverters could take 120V or 240V inputs, so that no matter what the campsite offers, it's useful. Right now, if I have a 6kxp in an RV and pull into a location that only has 120V input, I' still "offgrid" unless I add a chargeverter or some other battery charger) this gets to another point)
5) The chargeverter should have a "per leg" setting. Right now, you can set it for a total power output. Given an RV scenario like above (#4) it'd be nice if you could tell the chargverter to draw "15A per leg" (as an example). If plugged into 120V, it'd output 1800w (15*120). but if connected to 240V with the same setting, it'd output 3600w (15*240). This would allow you to mount hte device neatly and discreetly out of the way, and not have to fiddle with the settings everytime you pulled into a camp with a different power availability. (I realize some places may offer 20A 120v, or 30A 120V, etc.. thats why my example shows 15A.. it'd work with any of those options, *even if* you could have drawn more power from a 30A outlet, the goal would be to have it be more "set and forget", even if it provides lower power than the max theoretical)
6) an EV charger that communicates with the inverters in some way, and makes decisions based on that. ie, don't charge if the house battery is below 85%. OR, "maintain the house battery at 85%" (which would allow the MPPTS in the inverter to draw full power from the PV arrays, and since it knows how much power is available, dynamically change the cars charging rate to maximize the sun to charge the EV without draining the house battery. battery is charged up to your desired mark, and the inverter is still drawing 3,000 watts from the array? Charge the car with 3,000w. some shading occurs, reduce the car charge rate to match available PV. sun comes back out and now there is 8,000w, charge car at 8,000w. (obviously these examples don't mention changing house loads for the sake of simple explanation, but you'd want to factor that in to the overall EV charge rate)
7) With the ever-growing popularity of high voltage DC battery banks, a lineup of HV inverters would be cool. Especially if the sodium ion batteries deliver on some of their promises (the voltages of sodium ion swing heavily based on SOC, so HV inverters would need a wide DC operating votage to accomodate. And if sodium-ion never really takes off, we still have LiFePo4.
8) per circuit, or per device detection capabilities. maybe creating a smart panel-esque system with built in power flow monitoring. Add a relay, and you could have smart load shedding for the entire house. Make the panels flexible and affordable (unlike SPAN and lutron), and available to DIYers.
9) The ability to "AC couple" to the output of offgrid inverters. ie, using a 6,000xp as a "string inverter" for an 18kpv. Example scenario: 6kxp connected to 2 strings of solar panels at a remote building on the property. a barn, workshop, etc. Have the "output" of the 6kxp provide "AC Coupled input" to the 18kpv. 18kpv raises/lowers the frequency to throttle the 6kxp if needed. Bonus points if this additional power generation can be used in the calulations for the EV charge rate listed in #6.
I'm sure I have more ideas, but this has already turned into a book. What do others think? what would you add or change to the above? anyhing obvious I've missed?
Haha, thanks very much.
Thanks
The inverter design is by Warpspeed who's here on this forum. There's a thread all about the concept here.I built the inverter and wound the transformers etc over the last three years with lots of guidance from Warpspeed.
There's some threads about it over on thebackshed forum.
https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=4&TID=16626
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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That is not possible because it's doesn't use a split-phase input.
It's a variable voltage single phase input.
But it does automatically limit the output by 50% when connected to 120v. (Half the voltage in = Half the power out)
It would take a complete redesign to work the way you suggest.
With different internal power supplies. (Twice the size)
Also how about 8k Watts output, 10kWatts output with the toroid transformers built in and able to parallel to 2,4,6 Inverters with 4 or 6 MPPTS each, with naming to include: 8,000Watts & 16,000 Watts PV (simple to understand) ect.
n2aws
Solar Addict
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So.. heres the thing. I would agree with you that the current design wouldn't be able to do it. but the original post said "I want to get anyone’s thoughts on what they think the next thing is. Or what’s missing, what could be better. Please feel free to share your thoughts." and with that, the sky is the limit. For what it's worth, the 18k couldn't to the critical loads thing either, without a hardware refresh and adding additional relays. So, theres that.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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You are absolutely correct. Any request would fit.
And you are also correct, here.
Since Noone has offered an 18k yet. It could be anything you want.
n2aws
Solar Addict
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I love pedants. I said 18kpv in the original post, but make sure you point out everytime someone says it incorrectly.. as that *never* gets old, and contributes so much to the purpose, scope, and intent of the thread nad forum. It's interesting how you were able to understand what I was referring to, even though I said it incorrectly. Almost as if people are intelligent enough to know when someone says something slightly incorrectly and can identify the true intent.
You'll see that back in in november, I actually agreed with you. Even going so far as to say I didn't think it was "pedantic" Fast forward 6 months, and bro.. it's just tired, and I admit I was wrong.. You're extremely knowledgable, and it shows.. but anymore the signal to noise ratio between your helpful/insightful posts, and just ranting about the misuse of the name has gone from pedantic, to borderline manic. It might be time to pick the next battle, maybe? No ill will intended, but.. I figured I'd mention it.. cuz you seem to be getting to a worse negative mental state over time, rather than better.
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timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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It may seem old to you, because you have been here for a while.
But new members join every day. And we get a lot of visitors, too.
While I had no problem guessing what you meant to say. Many who are just starting out, would have been mislead by your mistake.
My corrections are for them. (And just a little reminder for you)
Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
So Tim, what do you think of the new 12K inverter?
This. Something with 200A passthrough that can do 80-100A continuous form the inverter would be cool.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Is there going to be another one?
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
+4 or whatever to HV batteries.
+1 to modular UL9540 listings.
I saw SimpliPhi 6.6 announcement last week, which is a DC ESS battery. Please get that for the UL9540 batteries you already have! Hopefully it is just a matter of a little more design work and another round through the testing lab.
+1 to modular UL9540 listings.
I saw SimpliPhi 6.6 announcement last week, which is a DC ESS battery. Please get that for the UL9540 batteries you already have! Hopefully it is just a matter of a little more design work and another round through the testing lab.
Lt.Dan
Solar Wizard
I still want to refer to them as just they're current potential. SolArk 15k = SolArk 275a. EG4 18kPV = EG4 250a. MN "The One" = MN 210a. And so-on...
Might fix the naming confusion to refer to it in a manner that cannot be argued?
Might fix the naming confusion to refer to it in a manner that cannot be argued?
N2aws is reading my mind on a couple ideas.
I just received, but have yet to commission, an 18KPV and 3 indoor batteries for an off grid setup. This may be enough or I may want to add on later. So far I am thinking of products or changes I'd like to see. Maybe some solutions are already there and I don't know about them yet? My apologies in advance.
These ideas are based around fleshing out your products so a customer can build and expand their system with products pre designed to work together. Sorry that many of these are not new items, but would make your product more enticing imo. Be more of a one stop shop as it were.
All products UL listed as required to meet code in the USA.
1: Add on charge controllers with simular specs to the built in ones in the AIOs. They would have at least 2 trackers per unit. Communication ports to hook to AIO/battery to sync charging. Even people using other stand alone inverters would be enticed by 600v input. They would be LuxPower. Low idle. More amps the better.
2: AIO should be able to accept input from cheap generators. 120v and 240v.
3: Ability to hook up more than 3 pro/indoor batteries to 18kpv/other AIOs. OR...At least have a pre designed bus kit with needed fuses that would fit in the wiring box.
4: Wired and wireless communications options that require no internet to fully monitor AIO. Some people don't have internet on site and some don't want their equipment online ever. Update via USB drive etc. Maybe this is already part of the system? Probably.
5: Remote monitor screen that can be connected via cat5 (with Wi-Fi option?) to AIO and be mounted in the home or convenient location. Basically a remote version of the screen on the unit with the ability to do all programming and monitoring. As neato as apps and pc programs are, I like just walking by a dedicated monitor. ALL settings should be able to be adjusted on the unit/remote screen without using a phone or pc. Also, my 18 kpv is going in a shipping container 150 feet from my house and can't receive wifi. A cat5 run to the house with a replica screen would be awesome. Also, I am tired of everything in life requiring pulling up apps and so forth. My brain needs a rest!
6: Ability to use different AIOs together in some manner with communications between them. Like 18kpv as main inverter and later add a "12kpv" or 6000xp as a secondary to help when loads are high and to add solar. Or at least have a written work around in instructions if possible.
7: Suggested best wiring methods to add a chargeverter to a system with AIO and rack or pro batteries. Also with auto gen startup. Added to instruction manuals. For permanent installation.
8: I will be grinding off the hanger lip on the indoor battery mounting bracket. The battery becomes sandwiched between the bracket lip and the wiring box and inverter on top of that. No way I can see to remove the battery without disassembling the upper pieces (in case of failure). Please design a new mounting system that allows easy removal of the battery. Also sturdier and longer adjustability to the battery feet with flat sides to allow a wrench to turn them for adjustment and lowering the battery out of the wiring box.
9: Replaceable or resetable surge protection either built into the AIO or an easy add on.
10: Battery top wiring box for indoor and pro batteries should sit flush to the wall and have holes for attaching to the wall. That allows dropping the battery while leaving the box properly secured to the wall.
11: I have a couple bright mounts and love them for what they are. I would like to see this turn into a line of quality value racks. Larger units that stack panels higher but with supports spread further apart side to side. This would require a front post and rear post. They would be linkable to expand horizontally. Angle up to 45 degrees would be preferred. A complete(other than concrete footings of course) racking system to build a large array at a reasonable price. Unlike other racking system websites where I don't see an actual price listed or know if they are in stock I could go to your distributor's website with the price listed and simply add the number of units to my cart. Oh yeah, each kit would come with the parts to splice to the next without buying anything separate. On that note, sell extra clamps for the racks through your distributors please. Basically an on the shelf product with a listed price that is easy to add to your order of panels and such.
12: Here's a concept. Base as many add on products that create an entire system (add on charge controllers, pv discos, surge protection, relay boxes whatever ......) around your wiring boxes. So if I want to build a full system I can buy a wiring box. Add a battery bellow and an AIO on top. Next to that I place another box. On top or bottom of that box (depending) on box design directly mount an additional charge controller and pv discos an so on. A customer can then go on a distributors website and select everything they need easily and not have to figure out(largely) what additional fittings, conduit, straps, gutters, j boxes etc etc they will need later. All parts for add ons to attach to the box are included with the add on kit.
13: Ability for smaller inverters (specifically the 6000xp) to do split phase at 3000w per leg or 6000w 120v only. I can see this as a good option for rvs, small off grid homes, critical load panels. As long as your loads are all 120v you have more leeway with loads starting up at the same time.
14: Not sure if there is a market, but replacing the 3000ehv with a luxpower unit based on the 6000xp under $900. 3000-4500 watts output. 5-6000 watts input. 120v. or selectable 120v or 240v.
I just received, but have yet to commission, an 18KPV and 3 indoor batteries for an off grid setup. This may be enough or I may want to add on later. So far I am thinking of products or changes I'd like to see. Maybe some solutions are already there and I don't know about them yet? My apologies in advance.
These ideas are based around fleshing out your products so a customer can build and expand their system with products pre designed to work together. Sorry that many of these are not new items, but would make your product more enticing imo. Be more of a one stop shop as it were.
All products UL listed as required to meet code in the USA.
1: Add on charge controllers with simular specs to the built in ones in the AIOs. They would have at least 2 trackers per unit. Communication ports to hook to AIO/battery to sync charging. Even people using other stand alone inverters would be enticed by 600v input. They would be LuxPower. Low idle. More amps the better.
2: AIO should be able to accept input from cheap generators. 120v and 240v.
3: Ability to hook up more than 3 pro/indoor batteries to 18kpv/other AIOs. OR...At least have a pre designed bus kit with needed fuses that would fit in the wiring box.
4: Wired and wireless communications options that require no internet to fully monitor AIO. Some people don't have internet on site and some don't want their equipment online ever. Update via USB drive etc. Maybe this is already part of the system? Probably.
5: Remote monitor screen that can be connected via cat5 (with Wi-Fi option?) to AIO and be mounted in the home or convenient location. Basically a remote version of the screen on the unit with the ability to do all programming and monitoring. As neato as apps and pc programs are, I like just walking by a dedicated monitor. ALL settings should be able to be adjusted on the unit/remote screen without using a phone or pc. Also, my 18 kpv is going in a shipping container 150 feet from my house and can't receive wifi. A cat5 run to the house with a replica screen would be awesome. Also, I am tired of everything in life requiring pulling up apps and so forth. My brain needs a rest!
6: Ability to use different AIOs together in some manner with communications between them. Like 18kpv as main inverter and later add a "12kpv" or 6000xp as a secondary to help when loads are high and to add solar. Or at least have a written work around in instructions if possible.
7: Suggested best wiring methods to add a chargeverter to a system with AIO and rack or pro batteries. Also with auto gen startup. Added to instruction manuals. For permanent installation.
8: I will be grinding off the hanger lip on the indoor battery mounting bracket. The battery becomes sandwiched between the bracket lip and the wiring box and inverter on top of that. No way I can see to remove the battery without disassembling the upper pieces (in case of failure). Please design a new mounting system that allows easy removal of the battery. Also sturdier and longer adjustability to the battery feet with flat sides to allow a wrench to turn them for adjustment and lowering the battery out of the wiring box.
9: Replaceable or resetable surge protection either built into the AIO or an easy add on.
10: Battery top wiring box for indoor and pro batteries should sit flush to the wall and have holes for attaching to the wall. That allows dropping the battery while leaving the box properly secured to the wall.
11: I have a couple bright mounts and love them for what they are. I would like to see this turn into a line of quality value racks. Larger units that stack panels higher but with supports spread further apart side to side. This would require a front post and rear post. They would be linkable to expand horizontally. Angle up to 45 degrees would be preferred. A complete(other than concrete footings of course) racking system to build a large array at a reasonable price. Unlike other racking system websites where I don't see an actual price listed or know if they are in stock I could go to your distributor's website with the price listed and simply add the number of units to my cart. Oh yeah, each kit would come with the parts to splice to the next without buying anything separate. On that note, sell extra clamps for the racks through your distributors please. Basically an on the shelf product with a listed price that is easy to add to your order of panels and such.
12: Here's a concept. Base as many add on products that create an entire system (add on charge controllers, pv discos, surge protection, relay boxes whatever ......) around your wiring boxes. So if I want to build a full system I can buy a wiring box. Add a battery bellow and an AIO on top. Next to that I place another box. On top or bottom of that box (depending) on box design directly mount an additional charge controller and pv discos an so on. A customer can then go on a distributors website and select everything they need easily and not have to figure out(largely) what additional fittings, conduit, straps, gutters, j boxes etc etc they will need later. All parts for add ons to attach to the box are included with the add on kit.
13: Ability for smaller inverters (specifically the 6000xp) to do split phase at 3000w per leg or 6000w 120v only. I can see this as a good option for rvs, small off grid homes, critical load panels. As long as your loads are all 120v you have more leeway with loads starting up at the same time.
14: Not sure if there is a market, but replacing the 3000ehv with a luxpower unit based on the 6000xp under $900. 3000-4500 watts output. 5-6000 watts input. 120v. or selectable 120v or 240v.
