Upgrade to Battleborn on Sailboat - review appreciated

[svfalkor]

Hello guys,

I am in the process of planning an upgrade to our electrical system on our sailboat. We live aboard 24/7/365 at anchor - therefor a reliable system is very important to us.

I wanted to run my thoughts by you to check if my plan makes sense and ask for your suggestions. I would very much appreciate your feedback. There is a lot of knowledge here!

Our current system looks like this:



As you can see there is no separate starter battery but all loads are powered from the same 2 lead acid batteries.

We would like to upgrade the system to power a bigger inverter in order to run a small washing machine and an induction stove top (we have gas as a backup).

A simple system could look like this (green is our planned upgrades):



As you can see we have replaced the batteries with 4 Battleborns, added a bigger inverter and the additional consumers. I would add an alternator protector between the alternator and the battery bank to safeguard the alternator in case the Battleborn BMS cuts its charging input. More solar is added as well to compensate for the additional consumers.

This solution would be the simplest to implement since it is basically the same as our current system. An alternative would be to separate the power bank into a house and and engine battery bank:



The advantage I see is that the alternator won't be overused due to the draw of the Lithium batteries (draw is limited by B2B charger) and we would have a backup to start the engine in case the house bank is empty (this has never happened so far). The downside is that it will require a significant amount of work to rewire everything which I would like to avoid if necessary. I tend to go for the simpler solution.

Having explained our setup and plans I would ask you for your feedback on:

• Does our planned upgrade make sense? Do you see potential problems or gaps? (Given that the overall power consumption is in balance with the production)
• Do you think we can get away with the simple setup (no extra starter batteries). Will the starter draw be a problem for the Battleborns?
• I assume I would have to limit somehow the current draw from the alternator in order to now blow it. What would be the easiest way? External relulator or is there another simpler solution?
• Do you see any other downside of the simple setup?

Thanks a lot for your help. Looking forward to your answers to build a good system together!

Patrick

SV Falkor 4.2

 

[MisterSandals]

Do you see any other downside of the simple setup?

The setup looks pretty solid and well thought out. The only gotcha i can see MIGHT be the surge current for the washing machine may be more than the 2400w inverter can supply without tripping.

But still looking it over...

 

[svfalkor]

Thank you MisterSandals for the review!

the washing machine is rated at 2200W,
the Inverter is rated at 2400W continuous power and
6000VA peak power.
Do you think that should be enough?

 

[MisterSandals]

Do you think that should be enough?

Should be enough to "run" but motors require a surge current to start up. Depending on the motor, it can be 50% more than what it takes to run. Some more, some less. If a motor is hooked to a pump, i'd guess more.

I have a small chest freezer that "runs" on 75watts. The startup surge is around 600w.

 

[svfalkor]

Should be enough to "run" but motors require a surge current to start up. Depending on the motor, it can be 50% more than what it takes to run. Some more, some less. If a motor is hooked to a pump, i'd guess more.

I have a small chest freezer that "runs" on 75watts. The startup surge is around 600w.

fingers crossed

 

[MisterSandals]

One question regarding the 3rd diagram, particularly from the engine alternator. Based on the arrows, is the idea to charge the lead acid batteries and use the B2B to charge the Battleborn bank?

 

[MisterSandals]

fingers crossed

I wonder if you could find out ahead of time by asking the manufacturer or dealer about the surge current. Or if you have the make and model, maybe someone here as some experience with it or something similar.

My gut feel is that 2400w inverter will cut out within seconds of the big motor in the washer starting.

 

[svfalkor]

One question regarding the 3rd diagram, particularly from the engine alternator. Based on the arrows, is the idea to charge the lead acid batteries and use the B2B to charge the Battleborn bank?

Yes, that is correct. The B2B charger could limit the current so not to overuse the alternator. If possible I would like to sick with the simple diagram (#2).

 

[John Frum]

fingers crossed

2200 watt inductive load on a 2400 watt inverter is pushing the envelope.
Running an 800 watt vacuum cleaner off of an 800 watt inverter is way beyond the envelope. I'm amazed that worked.
What brand?
I want one.

 

[svfalkor]

The washing machine is a baby nova 1150 rapid (3kg). It's a European brand I think. I couldn't find a data sheet with the surge current but I will ask the manufacturer.
The 800 Watt inverter is a Genius Power GP-24-800 similar to this one (I could only find the 600W model): https://intuiflex.com/Wohnmobil-Zub...600-Watt-Inverter---GP-24-600/a35732584_u320/
The vacuum cleaner is this one: https://www.fust.ch/de/p/haushalt/s...ger-mit-beutel/primotecq/kst-655-8329713.html
Sorry the links are in German. The inverter - vacuum cleaner combo works but it feels like borderline, it takes a second for the vacuumcleaner to fully turn on

 

[John Frum]

The 800 Watt inverter is a Genius Power GP-24-800 similar to this one (I could only find the 600W model): https://intuiflex.com/Wohnmobil-Zub...600-Watt-Inverter---GP-24-600/a35732584_u320/

The translated webpage mentions soft start.
Perhaps that is why it can get the motor spinning.

 

[svfalkor]

The Victron inverter advertises "A toroidal transformer provides a high peak power surge capacity":
https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters/phoenix-inverter-smart not sure if that will help. Or what do you guys think how big I should size the inverter?
Btw. here is a link to the washing machine on ebay (doesn't say much though): https://www.ebay.de/p/1139851622

 

[John Frum]

@Justin Laureltec ^

 

[svfalkor]

do you guys have an opinion on the simple setup and the setup with the separate starter battery?

 

[Brooks]

Am I missing something here, or is putting windmills on a boat a terrible idea?

 

[FilterGuy]

Am I missing something here, or is putting windmills on a boat a terrible idea?

Actually, boaters do it all the time. It is pretty effective.

 

[Brooks]

Doesn't the force of the wind against the turbine work against your movement?

 

[MisterSandals]

That force is probably about a millionth of the force on the sails.

 

[svfalkor]

@Brooks , as Filter Guy said many sailboats have wind turbines. They are very small compared to the sail area. So power is not the problem.
But a wind mill comes with other downsides: the (relative) wind on a sailboat depends on its course relative to the wind. On a downwind course (think Atlantic crossing in the trade winds) the relative windspeed is low since the boat speed is subtracted from the absolute wind speed and thus the power output of the windgen is low.
Another problem is that sail boats are most of the time at anchor and not sailing. And most good anchorages are protected and thus have not much wind. Overall solar is more effective, especially in the tropics. So most sail boats go for solar first and then add wind gen.

 

[BoloMKXXVIII]

Some sailboats can also use the propeller to generate electricity when engine is not running. Usually at the cost of a knot or two when under sail.