Who has experience with (blue) aluminum cells in a mobile system?

[Tex]

I'm wondering if anyone has experience using aluminum LiFePO4 cells in a mobile context, where road vibration, bumps, etc, are a factor. I'm especially curious whether anyone has used these cells in an overland build? How do they hold up? How does the quality of construction seem overall?

For a review on LiFePO4 in a van see my review, vibration seems to be an overrated worry, there are hundreds of thousands of various configurations of LiFePO4 batteries installed in various RV's being dragged all over the country with apparently no issues re. vibration.

Just to update, I have just finished installing a Victron BMV-712 battery monitor for peace of mind and system info. And I have enabled the built in network between the BMV-712 and the MPPT 75/15, pretty cool.
I would make two comments on this, firstly Victron manuals are written by engineers, (so they suck), but there is huge amounts of info on YouTube (but don't take any one as gospel). Secondly while a bit expensive, I am convinced it is a very worthwhile installation, heaps of config-arability, heaps of info, Bluetooth built in. One warning, as usual you get the dreaded "Firmware update required" warning as soon as you connect. I kept getting a fail error (B8), no indication from Victron as to what that actually means. However after multiple tries (5) over two days I got both the BMV-712 and the MPPT 75/15 to update, interesting they both did two updates.

I am now waiting on a Victron temp sensor to arrive, I should have bought one with the unit.
Establishing all the correct settings for the BMV-712 has been a very taxing exercise, but I believe I now have everything pretty much correct.
I am using pretty conservative numbers for my battery to extend the life, and the performance is outstanding.

I am attaching my current settings for both the BMV-712 and the MPPT 75/15, comments are welcomed.

 

[gnubie]

I like the idea of those those labels on the cells, pos, neg, nice way to help prevent accidents.

 

[ghostwriter66]

That's a good idea thanks. I was thinking the B- and C- soldered connections.

Just leave plenty of slack ... we work on oil field trailers all the time -- thats where i learned that anything over 280aH is NOT going to do well on anything mobile ... 200aH is my favourite for mobile for that reason ... but we strap the hell out of the boxes ... but leave all the cable long and loose ... also a gallon of lock-tight is highly recommended ...LOL

 

[ghostwriter66]

I would make two comments on this, firstly Victron manuals are written by engineers, (so they suck)

So by "SUCK" you mean there wasn't enough pictures for you -- or perhaps the words were too big???

 

[Bob B]

So by "SUCK" you mean there wasn't enough pictures for you -- or perhaps the words were too big???

I'm not an engineer ... but that's funny right there.? This has the potential to get interesting. I have always been the tech who had to straighten the engineers out ... but don't hold any animosity toward them.

 

[gnubie]

However after multiple tries (5) over two days I got both the BMV-712 and the MPPT 75/15 to update, interesting they both did two updates.

One firmware update for the bluetooth interface and one firmware update for the device proper.

 

[Dhowman]

Bumping this as this thread seems most relevant to my question. I am installing 70-100Ah @ 12V in a off road vehicle subject to higher vibration (washboard road, etc). I have limited space to work with. I purchased a few of the Valence U1-12RT but now I am thinking I want more capacity than two of those will offer.

After reading through this thread and others I am considering 4 of the 100Ah CALB or Al prismatic cells and making my own battery. I really like the robustness of the Fortune cells, but initially passed on them because they were too tall. However now I see the 60Ah fortune cells and based on rough measurements I think I can fit 8 of them end to end in a 4S2P configuration and only need one BMS.

8 of these cells:

Affordable Electric Vehicle Batteries & Components from Electric Car Parts Company

Electric Car Parts Company is your one-stop-shop for affordable electric vehicle parts and components including batteries. Shop our selection and order now!

www.electriccarpartscompany.com

Configured like this
View attachment 16979

I am also concerned about the effects of vibration on the BMS. The BMS would most likely be secured to the end of cell 1.

Thoughts on how this would hold up in a vehicle?

I mulled over battery placement options for my slide in camper for a couple months. Wanted to go with CALB for their solid design and beefy terminals, but was having a hell of a time trying to figure out were to put 'em and how best to secure them. They're heavy and not particularly compact when you calculate Ah's stored per cubic foot and per pound. I went with 16 150Ah Al cells from BLS cuz they take up about half the space and weigh half what the same config of 16 CALB 180s would take (for only a 20% loss in capacity).

Here they are in a mock up of the camper closet they're eventually going into, secured by threaded rods that pull the pack together. Used red PVC air hose to keep the cells off the threaded rods. Yes, those rods will get trimmed before they go into the camper. They ain't going anywhere.




Currently capacity testing 8 cells at a time using Electrodacus BMS (keeps a log of all cell V's every 2 mins you can download) on only the AC side of the setup (inverter display removed to tap into on/off switch so that BMS can shut it down when LVC threshold is reached). DC side is still a work in progress.

So by "SUCK" you mean there wasn't enough pictures for you -- or perhaps the words were too big???

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Tex]

So by "SUCK" you mean there wasn't enough pictures for you -- or perhaps the words were too big???

You know exactly what I mean!
Yes, I have also been guilty of being to familiar with products and processes I have developed.
The rule is simple, but not easy to do, read it as if you have absolutely no clue what it is about, and you have never seen the product before, (or get someone in that position to interpret your manual..

 

[Tex]

I mulled over battery placement options for my slide in camper for a couple months. Wanted to go with CALB for their solid design and beefy terminals, but was having a hell of a time trying to figure out were to put 'em and how best to secure them. They're heavy and not particularly compact when you calculate Ah's stored per cubic foot and per pound. I went with 16 150Ah Al cells from BLS cuz they take up about half the space and weigh half what the same config of 16 CALB 180s would take (for only a 20% loss in capacity).

Here they are in a mock up of the camper closet they're eventually going into, secured by threaded rods that pull the pack together. Used red PVC air hose to keep the cells off the threaded rods. Yes, those rods will get trimmed before they go into the camper. They ain't going anywhere.
View attachment 17009

View attachment 17010

Currently capacity testing 8 cells at a time using Electrodacus BMS (keeps a log of all cell V's every 2 mins you can download) on only the AC side of the setup (inverter display removed to tap into on/off switch so that BMS can shut it down when LVC threshold is reached). DC side is still a work in progress.

Yes. Exactly.

Electrodacus, nice!

 

[Sgt Raven]

You know exactly what I mean!
Yes, I have also been guilty of being to familiar with products and processes I have developed.
The rule is simple, but not easy to do, read it as if you have absolutely no clue what it is about, and you have never seen the product before, (or get someone in that position to interpret your manual..

On the other hand, I remember reading a popular repair book for VWs in the 70s. It was written for the average person with no knowledge about car repairs. I had a difficult time understanding it, in the way it was written. A regular service manual was easier for me to understand.

 

[Dhowman]

On the other hand, I remember reading a popular repair book for VWs in the 70s. It was written for the average person with no knowledge about car repairs. I had a difficult time understanding it, in the way it was written. A regular service manual was easier for me to understand.

Yeah, I think he (John Muir) might have been high when he wrote it, so it helped if you were too. ;-) It's a classic though and I used it to cut my teeth on auto-repair when I got my first car - a 1970 Bus, so it's kinda near and dear.

Things were much simpler then. The bus had only two lights. A Red one and a Green one. There's one chapter dedicated to each that covered ALL the electrics in the bus. Miss those days and that vehicle.

Muir and Robert Pirsig, IMHO, wrote the best "how to" guides in existence for auto novices. No one that I'm aware has come close in the last 50 years.

 

[Solar_Mann]

Been testing this one out on a 20’ eliminator boat, very abusive in the form of vibration and shock. No issues at all yet. 180ah cells.

 

[sduser]

Just curious what I should expect to pay for shipping on these prismatic cells from a distributor with US stock? I am interested in buying 8 of these cells and was quoted what seems like a very high amount. Not sure if it's bad form to post the amount here. If they were being shipped from China maybe. Are the companies with US stock trying to recoup their initial costs to get them to the US warehouse? If it costs that much fine I will roll it into the total cost of purchase, but I feel I am getting gouged a bit.

 

[ghostwriter66]

I mulled over battery placement options for my slide in camper for a couple months. Wanted to go with CALB for their solid design and beefy terminals, but was having a hell of a time trying to figure out were to put 'em and how best to secure them. They're heavy and not particularly compact when you calculate Ah's stored per cubic foot and per pound. I went with 16 150Ah Al cells from BLS cuz they take up about half the space and weigh half what the same config of 16 CALB 180s would take (for only a 20% loss in capacity).

Here they are in a mock up of the camper closet they're eventually going into, secured by threaded rods that pull the pack together. Used red PVC air hose to keep the cells off the threaded rods. Yes, those rods will get trimmed before they go into the camper. They ain't going anywhere.
View attachment 17009

View attachment 17010

Currently capacity testing 8 cells at a time using Electrodacus BMS (keeps a log of all cell V's every 2 mins you can download) on only the AC side of the setup (inverter display removed to tap into on/off switch so that BMS can shut it down when LVC threshold is reached). DC side is still a work in progress.

Yes. Exactly.

THAT is a very nice setup ... you need to pin that so when 90% of the newbies ask "HELP" we can point them to this

 

[ghostwriter66]

I mulled over battery placement options for my slide in camper for a couple months. Wanted to go with CALB for their solid design and beefy terminals, but was having a hell of a time trying to figure out were to put 'em and how best to secure them. They're heavy and not particularly compact when you calculate Ah's stored per cubic foot and per pound. I went with 16 150Ah Al cells from BLS cuz they take up about half the space and weigh half what the same config of 16 CALB 180s would take (for only a 20% loss in capacity).

Here they are in a mock up of the camper closet they're eventually going into, secured by threaded rods that pull the pack together. Used red PVC air hose to keep the cells off the threaded rods. Yes, those rods will get trimmed before they go into the camper. They ain't going anywhere.
View attachment 17009

View attachment 17010

Currently capacity testing 8 cells at a time using Electrodacus BMS (keeps a log of all cell V's every 2 mins you can download) on only the AC side of the setup (inverter display removed to tap into on/off switch so that BMS can shut it down when LVC threshold is reached). DC side is still a work in progress.

Yes. Exactly.

when you get done and IF you do a schematic - please let me know .... HOW many panels and what wattage are you drawing from?? Is it all on your roof or do you have ground mounted also??

 

[papagyo]

Hi All,

I just bought those 190Ah aluminum cells and almost have it ready to install in my motorhome. I do not think there is a lot of bumping around in a motorhome used on the pavement. I will post a pic up of finished product and how it works.

brian

 

[ghostwriter66]

Hi All,

I just bought those 190Ah aluminum cells and almost have it ready to install in my motorhome. I do not think there is a lot of bumping around in a motorhome used on the pavement. I will post a pic up of finished product and how it works.

brian

If there is a harbour freight near you - we get those rubber pads that are about 3 x 3 ft (comes in a pack of (4) for like $9.00 ... we find those are excellent (and cheap) for mounting the batteries on top of ... even if things aren't moving ...

 

[papagyo]

Hi,
This whole thing fits into a plastic battery box that is padded with 1” closed cell foam on the bottom. Should be pretty vibration free. It is 7.5Wx10.5Lx9H as you see it

brian

 

[Zil]

So by "SUCK" you mean there wasn't enough pictures for you -- or perhaps the words were too big???

THE ENGINEER. An engineer is a person who passes as an exacting expert, on the basis of being able to turn out with prolific fortitude, infinite strings of incomprehensible formulae, calculated with micro-metric precision from vague assumptions which were based on debatable figures taken from inconclusive experiments carried out with instruments of problematical accuracy by persons of doubtful reliability for the avowed purpose of annoying and confounding a hopelessly bewildered group of practical, mechanically minded and experienced personnel who are frequently referred to as the "Shop".

 

[Mex Rider]

I'm wondering if anyone has experience using aluminum lifepo4 cells in a mobile context, where road vibration, bumps, etc, are a factor. I'm especially curious whether anyone has used these cells in an overland build? How do they hold up? How does the quality of construction seem overall?

I am guessing there are a variety of blue aluminum cells. As I note Will recently tested the blue aluminum "Fortune" cells and said they were made for mining equipment and withstand vibration very well and also noted that they have terminals large enough and strong enough for a torque wrench. I am planning to use them in my overland build in a Ford Transit and here in México many roads are dirt or in very bad condition. So I guess it depends on which blue aluminum cells you are referencing.
I am picking up 8 of those Fortune cells and two of the BMS's tested with them tomorrow and live in a small desert town in Mexico, where it is very difficult to get some simple things...like hose clamps 24" long. I don't have any kind of regulated power supply and my beginners question is: can I hook up all eight cells in parallel and just wait for them to equalize? After which I will break them into two 12 volt batteries of 4 cells in series and connect the two in paraIlel and hook one BMS to each. I have plenty of time because I don't have solar panels yet and don't want to put the batteries out in the heat before I can actually use them. My second novice question is: are the frames of solar panels strong enough to bolt two panels together lengthwise using a wood batten inside of each frame for added strength, the object being to mount to the roof rack solely at the outside four corners of the two bolted together panels. Perhaps I should be asking the solar panel question elsewhere but many here are very knowledgeable about mobile setups.
Thank you for any suggestions and also for all the great information here on this forum and thank you Will for your creativity and giving spirit.