150 ft 20 amp copper 2 wire..
- Thread starter e67
- Start date
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
I'd check out "Wire and Cable Your Way" but assuming you're talking about #10 THHN, since you mentioned conduit, your local Big Box Store is going to be hard to beat on the commonly used sizes and types of commodity wire.
dopeassjackson
New Member
National wire on Amazon sells PV wire made in NYS for just about as cheap as the chinese junk.
www.national-wire.com
AWG10 - 250 Ft. PV Wire Solar Professional | NATIONAL Wire&Cable
Renewable energy sources, specifically solar and wind farms, have very exact cabling requirements. NATIONAL Wire&Cable provides a variety of cables to assist you with your renewable energy installation or maintenance. Our experience in manufacturing cables for use in many types of harsh...
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seneysolar
Solar Addict
If going underground, use UF-B underground feeder. Personally I wouldn't use conduit for that far of a run underground.
If above ground, THHN wire is not expensive and would be the best choice for pulling in conduit.
PV wire is good for anything exposed to sunlight and can be direct bury also. Sometimes it makes sense just to run all the way so you don't have the transition between wire types. It can also handle higher string voltages; some is rated up to 2K. The problem with PV wire is the insulation isn't friendly for pulling in conduit.
As mentioned above, "wire and cable your way" is a decent source for all types and good prices.
If above ground, THHN wire is not expensive and would be the best choice for pulling in conduit.
PV wire is good for anything exposed to sunlight and can be direct bury also. Sometimes it makes sense just to run all the way so you don't have the transition between wire types. It can also handle higher string voltages; some is rated up to 2K. The problem with PV wire is the insulation isn't friendly for pulling in conduit.
As mentioned above, "wire and cable your way" is a decent source for all types and good prices.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Why? I'd run conduit no matter what and oversize at that. Can always expand, don't have to worry about someone or rodents like moles digging into the wire. I have one feeder from the pole without conduit, I'll never make that mistake again.
My array is 420 feet from my house, all in conduit.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
I ran both UF-B and conduit for 180ft (I already bought the UF-B before I decided to run conduit as well). I wasn't worried about rodents getting the UF-B, but in the end my own shovel did! I do recommend conduit, because plans change and arrays grow.
Pulling 3x 12awg through 3/4 PVC 180ft was easy, with the run being all straight and only the 2 sweep bends at either end. I am confident 5x 10awg would be possible too. 7 x 10awg or 9 x 12 awg is also allowed, but might get harder that close to the allowable fill.
I would recommend 3/4 PVC conduit, or 1" if you're feeling fancy. I buy my THHN at Home Depot.
Pulling 3x 12awg through 3/4 PVC 180ft was easy, with the run being all straight and only the 2 sweep bends at either end. I am confident 5x 10awg would be possible too. 7 x 10awg or 9 x 12 awg is also allowed, but might get harder that close to the allowable fill.
I would recommend 3/4 PVC conduit, or 1" if you're feeling fancy. I buy my THHN at Home Depot.
robbob2112
Doing more research, mosty harmless
For burying conduit I always pretty much double the size I need if there is ever a chance I might want want to upgrade or add more wire. Adding wires you have to pull the old ones and lay them out with the new ones then pull back.
seneysolar
Solar Addict
Just personal preference i suppose. Saves money, its not required and UF is designed for direct bury. 2ft deep is code, dont really have rodent issues that deep. If i was thinking future expansion at the time of installation, id just bury another UF cable or oversize the wire, money better spent IMO.
seneysolar
Solar Addict
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
dopeassjackson
New Member
I dont use conduit either. Direct burial for me. If you really want to future proof something like this just use MHF wire. It's way bigger for the same cost as UF-B 8ga.
Conduit is far from cheap to throw at "maybe" far down the line type of modification. I have also not seen direct burial wire damaged but have seen conduit split and full of water.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
That's ok though THHN can be submerged. And 1-2$/foot for conduit is cheaper than direct burying extra copper.
Not that I have a functional opposition to direct bury either.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
MHF (mobile home feeder) comes at 2 gauge minimum size. About $2.00 per foot if you really search online. About $300 for the 150 feet needed but might have to buy a bigger roll online. This will require a 10 ft length of SCH80 conduit probably 1.5" for above ground, $27.07
12 AWG THWN 500 foot roll (use green tape for the ground wire) will cover that 150 feet at a cost of $104
1/2" PVC conduit SCH40 for 10 feet is $6.98, this will require 14 sections, total $97.72. One section of SCH80 is needed for above ground, $10.66
$104 + $97.72 + $10.66 = $212.38
MHF will be $300 + $27.07 = $327.07
1/3 higher in cost.
12 AWG THWN 500 foot roll (use green tape for the ground wire) will cover that 150 feet at a cost of $104
1/2" PVC conduit SCH40 for 10 feet is $6.98, this will require 14 sections, total $97.72. One section of SCH80 is needed for above ground, $10.66
$104 + $97.72 + $10.66 = $212.38
MHF will be $300 + $27.07 = $327.07
1/3 higher in cost.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
A 250 foot roll of UF 12AWG is $259.00
A 100 foot roll won't quite stretch to 150 feet.
A 100 foot roll won't quite stretch to 150 feet.
seneysolar
Solar Addict
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
Another factor to keep in mind: Just running 2 fat conductors isn't necessarily future proof, if the array site future plans are unknown. It may end up being preferable to have multiple separate PV runs back to multiple charge controllers. Two charge controllers can't share the same PV source.
seneysolar
Solar Addict
To do a comparison we at least need to use the same wire size...
Using your figures for 12 awg @ 150ft run (minus the above ground conduit as its required for both wire types) = $202.00
150ft of 12/2 UF-B = $105
Now that being said, adding a second run, is just the cost of the wire:
12awg THWN 2 runs in same conduit = $306.00
12/2 UF-B 2 runs direct bury = $210.00
adding multiple strings, you will never outrun the cost of the conduit.
Both are legal / accepted ways to run the PV, but UF is the most cost effective. Im not sure the conduit is worth the relatively low risk of damage that you are trying to prevent? Depends on who's digging on your property... An excavator will destroy both. A shovel will cut the insulation on UF, but again at 2ft depth, your digging will be intentional and hopefully you know where you are digging. For the initial cost of $97 in conduit, id bury a 2nd UF cable for the extra $8 for future use.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
I did, 12 AWG.
UF comes in 250 foot rolls, you can not buy a roll of 150 feet. It jumps from 100 feet to 250 feet.
Whether there might be a use down the road for the remaining 100 feet doesn't matter, you still have to lay out $259 to get it.
You must use math the way the White House does on the budget.
Cost of original 150 feet with conduit: $212.38
Add another 500 roll of THWN $104.00
$212.38 + $104.00 = $316.38
UF 12-2 is $259 roll, this requires another roll as the remaining 100 feet from first roll will not be long enough.
$259 + 259 = $518
I did find UF 12-2 for $198 for 250 feet at HD.
Still $198 + $198 = $396
Don't forget, you have nothing figured for the SCH80 conduit needed on the end of the UF above ground. I did not have anything in the first post about UF, but had this figured in for THWN.
3/4" runs $13.33, 1" is $18.87 and you probably should use 1" with UF, just in case you buy another 250 foot roll for another string.
One saves $1.05 on the original install but need to buy another roll at a minimum of $198. Plus trenching or digging by hand. The $1.05 is figured with 3/4" conduit above ground for the UF but if 1" is used, (needed for the second string) well, I guess UF costs about $4 more on the original install. Again, another roll of UF costs $198.
Running 2 more wires in conduit costs $104 for another roll.
I'll take every 250 foot roll of UF 12-2 you are buying for $105.
