hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
I agree with your thinking. If you can get service at the shed affordably there are many options. You could even run a thinner 240v to a charger at the battery bank.
This is for roof mount or self-built (IE lots of sweat equity) ground mounts though, right?I used to say $1/W for grid tie PV hardware, but with PV panel deals I think I can do it for $0.50/W, bringing cost of power down to $0.01/kWh (amortized over 20 years.)
That being said, it looks like if I loosen my voltage drop requirements a bit, running a wire still seems like it would be feasible. For example, this 2 AWG wire is $1200/1000 feet, and should handle 30 Amps with only a 13 volt drop. And with the added bonus of possibly selling power back to the grid at some point, seems like it might be worth the investment. Plus, virtually zero maintenance costs.
I honestly haven't done a ton of research, but these estimates seem like an order of magnitude lower than anything I've found. Do you have any suggestions on where to look to find affordable panels and batteries like this?
We could definitely make 20 kW work for us in the winter.
Right, I understand Ohms law and the inverse relation between current and voltage. Transmission uses high voltage at low amperage, way more efficient across long distances.It is ituitive if you think in terms of power. The explanation from a physics standpoint is that wire capacity is based on current not voltage. For the same power, if you increase voltage the current decreases. That is why kilovolt distribution and transmission lines are so thin, because they run and thousands of volts.
Provided I run the wire directly from the meter on the shed to the panel at the house, I think I can get away without a ground, right? It's no different than having the ground and neutral bonded at the main panel, a common practice.This is 3-wire cable, which is good before your service equipment/first disconnect, but not after. Though 4-wire probably doesn't cost that much more since you can use a much smaller conductor for ground.
Yeah, this is a really good point. It seems like even a small conductor connecting me to the grid could potentially solve all our problems.Also I like the idea of smaller conductor serving 240V battery charger at the cabin going into a battery, which is then used to supply loads. The PowerPro is easily able to supply 10kW of power for EG cooking for 1 hour or whatever. And then slowly recover that over a few hours via either grid or solar. This trick is used for certain kinds of EV chargers like Freewire.
Yes this will work. I have an outbuilding that way. Downside is just some people might shake their head at you for it, but it's a free country (for you in no permit land, not the rest of us lol). You would then want a good ground rod at the house of course, like any normal main panel would have.Provided I run the wire directly from the meter on the shed to the panel at the house, I think I can get away without a ground, right? It's no different than having the ground and neutral bonded at the main panel, a common practice.
AWG | Diam. (mils) | Circular mils | Ohms/1000ft | Fusing Current | Pounds/1000ft |
0000 | 460 | 212000 | 0.0804 | - | 195.0 |
000 | 410 | 168000 | 0.101 | - | 154.0 |
00 | 365 | 133000 | 0.128 | - | 122.0 |
0 | 324.85 | 105000 | 0.161 | - | 97.0 |
1 | 289 | 83700 | 0.203 | - | 76.9 |
2 | 258 | 66400 | 0.256 | - | 61.0 |
3 | 229 | 52600 | 0.323 | - | 48.4 |
4 | 204 | 41700 | 0.408 | - | 38.4 |
How much is a weather-proof Generac and fuel tank that's big enough to buffer several days of bad winter production?On the flip side: Electric service will likely have a minimum monthly fee, regardless of usage. A small back-up generator might be cheaper, and definitely easier.
The only things that need to be ‘big enough’ are the battery bank and the fuel tank. From the OP, sounds like electrical loads are small.How much is a weather-proof Generac and fuel tank that's big enough to buffer several days of bad winter production?
The only things that need to be ‘big enough’ are the battery bank and the fuel tank. From the OP, sounds like electrical loads are small.
If daily usage is 10 kWh /day, a small 3.5 kw inverter generator could recharge or top off the batteries each day.
Honda 3200 has a 2600w rated output and 3.3 hr run time on 1.2 gal. Allowing 80% eff, that’s 4.6 hrs of run time and less than 1.8 gallons. A 55 gallon drum would last a month. All theory, give or take.
No, not as cheap as utility juice, but if you’re just trying to get through a dark spell, it’s one option.
I'd argue this is the best advice in this thread, and the only good place to start. If you are OK with potentially having grid power (some just don't want it, even with no install cost), then start by seeing what they're willing to do, at what cost. Everything else flows from there, with that information in hand. Don't rely on info from others. I've found "neighbor info" to be horribly unreliable. Most utilities will give you an estimate without cost. Start there.Talk to your utility. Some are really good about providing free drops of xxxx feet with reasonable rates for various things. (others not so much) Some allow you to buy the conduit and bury it and they pull their wire in it. 800' will be high voltage with a pad mount transformer.
If you can get grid power for less than 10K certainly do that. That doesn't prevent you from spending another 5K-10K on solar and reducing your reliance on the grid.
I'll be reaching out to the utility company soon asking for quotes for a new service at the road, and I can ask about other options.I'd argue this is the best advice in this thread, and the only good place to start.
Wow - how can you come up with a 2kW PV array for $500 let alone less? I'd love to find that kind of deal.Do you have a stream with some flow and drop? Even seasonal?
Photovoltaic has become extremely economical. I think even with batteries you can do it for under $0.10/kWh. What does your utility charge?
A 2kW PV array can be had for $500, maybe $300 these days. In other words, 20kW of PV panels is affordable, biggest cost it mechanical mounts. How would 10x in production help your winter months?
For solar panels? Just look at any of the solar panels deals threads. $500 for just panels is easy. That number can’t possibly include inverter balance of system and racking though.Wow - how can you come up with a 2kW PV array for $500 let alone less? I'd love to find that kind of deal.