An Off grid AIO I would like to see.

[Mattb4]

It would be nice to see a Split phase 24vDC AIO that would handle 5-6kW. There are several on the market that give you 120vAC at 3kW but not much innovation in them is happening since the emphasis is now on 48vDC offerings. 24vDC is becoming the red haired step child of the PV world though it has decent power for lower demand situations that Off grid and mobile customers encounter. Being lower voltage it is also a bit safer to deal with.

While I am designing the best possible Off grid AIO that has GAB (Grid as backup) here are some of my wants.

The split phase AIO must accept power from most generators. If it is only 120vAC it will still charge batteries but not pass through to loads but 240vAC input will.
The AIO will have 2 SCC MPPT inputs with max Voc of 450v and provide 120a charging.
Quality terminals will be used for connecting up input and output from the AIO.
Programming and settings offered will be geared towards Off grid use. There will be the ability to set time of grid (or generator, perhaps via autostart) usage as well as the typical operational modes.
Manual will show how to wire and setup AIO for proper NG bonds.
Off grid certification from a recognized testing lab such as UL.

Oh yes, it will not cost an arm and a leg.

How about other Off grid users? What would you really like to see offered in an Off grid AIO to meet your needs?

 

[OM617YOTA]

Sounds good to me, although I'd rather jump on the 48v bandwagon. Going 24v was my main regret building my system.

I particularly like your idea of being able to charge from 120v and still putting out 240v. Right now I'm achieving this with a stand alone charger.

 

[Rednecktek]

So 12a per leg or 3Kw per leg and a 6000xp? I think the 6000xp is kinda the sweet spot for small split phase, although definitely being able to recharge from a 120v generator would be nice since the jumper trick form the 5048 doesn't seem to work.

I'd like to see more options for 12v AIO's. 1Kw is too small for most things and there is only 1 company I've found that has 2Kw and 3Kw units which are all LF and pricy! If a 6Kw can take 120a from the batteries and be considered a "small" system, why can't we have 12v 1500w or 2Kw AIO's?

Off grid needs to be able to update firmware via USB/PC interface. Requiring an online account and/or an app is stupid for an off-grid system.

Remote control panel! A fully functional one that can be mounted!

Big passive heat sinks and/or a larger diameter/slower fan. Small off grid systems don't always have a power room far away to silence them.

While a 450v PVInput would be nice, I went with the Growatt and one of the considerations was the lower starting voltage. Getting to 150+ volts of starting power for a 30v charger is really difficult. 40v would make a 4s string of bog standard 100w panels would be a lot handier.

Oh, and NO COMMUNICATIONS REQUIRED!!! (I'm looking at you EG4 and your indoor battery/6000xp requirements!)

 

[Mattb4]

...

While a 450v PVInput would be nice, I went with the Growatt and one of the considerations was the lower starting voltage. Getting to 150+ volts of starting power for a 30v charger is really difficult. 40v would make a 4s string of bog standard 100w panels would be a lot handier.

Yes, for small off grid setups a lower PV Voc of perhaps 150v would be good. The older ones of only 100v Voc were a bit limiting even with RV style panels. 6-100w panels at 22v than could than be series connected.

 

[Zwy]

It would be nice to see a Split phase 24vDC AIO that would handle 5-6kW. There are several on the market that give you 120vAC at 3kW but not much innovation in them is happening since the emphasis is now on 48vDC offerings. 24vDC is becoming the red haired step child of the PV world though it has decent power for lower demand situations that Off grid and mobile customers encounter. Being lower voltage it is also a bit safer to deal with.

While I am designing the best possible Off grid AIO that has GAB (Grid as backup) here are some of my wants.

The split phase AIO must accept power from most generators. If it is only 120vAC it will still charge batteries but not pass through to loads but 240vAC input will.
The AIO will have 2 SCC MPPT inputs with max Voc of 450v and provide 120a charging.
Quality terminals will be used for connecting up input and output from the AIO.
Programming and settings offered will be geared towards Off grid use. There will be the ability to set time of grid (or generator, perhaps via autostart) usage as well as the typical operational modes.
Manual will show how to wire and setup AIO for proper NG bonds.
Off grid certification from a recognized testing lab such as UL.

Oh yes, it will not cost an arm and a leg.

How about other Off grid users? What would you really like to see offered in an Off grid AIO to meet your needs?

I've recently installed a 12V Victron Phoenix 1200W inverter in my work trailer. It is LF and believe me when I say you want LF with a small inverter. Monitoring kVa I see the surge when turning anything on.

At 1500W per leg, I think you will find the surge will trip the inverter. You would be better served with 120V and 3000W.

 

[Skypower]

The only thing that I can find advantageous to a 24 system is 24 volt alternators are plentiful.

 

[Mattb4]

The only thing that I can find advantageous to a 24 system is 24 volt alternators are plentiful.

So are disconnects, DC fuses and other components. The higher voltage of 48vDC nom. Lithium at around 58vDC has made it a bit of a scramble to find items that can properly handle that voltage.

 

[Mattb4]

I've recently installed a 12V Victron Phoenix 1200W inverter in my work trailer. It is LF and believe me when I say you want LF with a small inverter. Monitoring kVa I see the surge when turning anything on.

At 1500W per leg, I think you will find the surge will trip the inverter. You would be better served with 120V and 3000W.

I have been running HF in the AIO's I have been using without problem with startup surge for things. I suspect it is because 3000w (6000w surge) provides a good leeway for normal 120vAC plug in items. I also suspect that many folks fail to provide a suitable DC connection with plenty of battery capacity and the subsequent voltage slump under load catches them.

 

[Zwy]

I have been running HF in the AIO's I have been using without problem with startup surge for things. I suspect it is because 3000w (6000w surge) provides a good leeway for normal 120vAC plug in items. I also suspect that many folks fail to provide a suitable DC connection with plenty of battery capacity and the subsequent voltage slump under load catches them.

I do know given a choice now I would have gone 24V or 48V but this serves the purpose at this point. If 24V or 48V, it would have probably been a slightly larger inverter. I don't know how people get by with a 12V system, once "you have held the power" of a higher battery voltage, it is hard to go back.

 

[Mattb4]

Spotted a company selling some split phase AIO units that operate off 24vDC. https://store.tumo-int.com/ They have one at 2kW and another at 3kW. Never heard of them before but they seem to have a line up of wind turbines, various SCC with MPPT, Inverter chargers, hybrid AIO and grid tie units.

Would like to see a higher 24vDC model in split phase than 3kW myself since that would limit each leg to 1500w. But it could be a possibility for someone needing a combination 120/240vAC output. I have no idea of quality or anything so it will be interesting if anyone out there buys and test these units out.

 

[OM617YOTA]

A lot of these can be daisy chained or combined. My MPP LV2424's can be linked either in split phase 240v, single phase 120v, or single phase 240v, at 50 or 60hz. Stack as many as you want to get the output you need. I don't remember if it was 9 units per phase, or 9 units total. Lot of extra wiring and expense to get there, though.

 

[Zwy]

It would be nice to see a Split phase 24vDC AIO that would handle 5-6kW. There are several on the market that give you 120vAC at 3kW but not much innovation in them is happening since the emphasis is now on 48vDC offerings. 24vDC is becoming the red haired step child of the PV world though it has decent power for lower demand situations that Off grid and mobile customers encounter. Being lower voltage it is also a bit safer to deal with.

While I am designing the best possible Off grid AIO that has GAB (Grid as backup) here are some of my wants.

The split phase AIO must accept power from most generators. If it is only 120vAC it will still charge batteries but not pass through to loads but 240vAC input will.
The AIO will have 2 SCC MPPT inputs with max Voc of 450v and provide 120a charging.
Quality terminals will be used for connecting up input and output from the AIO.
Programming and settings offered will be geared towards Off grid use. There will be the ability to set time of grid (or generator, perhaps via autostart) usage as well as the typical operational modes.
Manual will show how to wire and setup AIO for proper NG bonds.
Off grid certification from a recognized testing lab such as UL.

Oh yes, it will not cost an arm and a leg.

You don't want much do you?

How about other Off grid users? What would you really like to see offered in an Off grid AIO to meet your needs?

This will get you an inverter that can run off 24V. Can accept 120V or 240V input automatically. No charge controller and not cheap. But it will do want you want for an inverter. It is UL rated according to the certificates on the website. It will only output 120V but will charge the battery with 120V or 240V as you requested. I can assure you it will give proper instruction on N-G bonding, the company is quite clear about it in my experience. You can parallel units down the road if your needs change.

Like I said, it is an inverter/charger. You will have to supply an MPPT. But it covers all the bases you want, 3kVA output with 5.5kVA surge. Good unit, a little pricey but these are not normal features you want such as the 120/240V input. It is a perfect fit for what you want. By now you are probably wondering what inverter is this? Add in a MPPT and you will have the need met. Did I mention it comes with a 10 year warranty? 10 years is a long time in the solar world. It comes with great support too. I don't think you will find support much better. It is right here. https://www.currentconnected.com/pr...DItOZxnIxZJNamR51PHbLHQ7ne27EDywB4BO_s4y7TipY Buy it from Dexter, it will be at your doorstep in a few days. And you get the extended warranty.

 

[Mattb4]

Ack! Victron. Only cost you your first born child (heck with arm and leg costs). Being an old solitaire, that never reproduced, I lack the necessary child.

 

[Zwy]

Ack! Victron. Only cost you your first born child (heck with arm and leg costs). Being an old solitaire, that never reproduced, I lack the necessary child.

The thing is, it does what you want. Except for the MPPT.

I should have bought a Multiplus instead of the Phoenix.

 

[Rednecktek]

The thing is, it does what you want. Except for the MPPT.

I should have bought a Multiplus instead of the Phoenix.

The Growatt 3000 24v does it all, AND the MPPT, AND is half the price.

The Ionic 3kw does it all on 12v, AND the MPPT, AND is LF for heavy loads, AND is 30% less.

Not gonna find any Smurf Fanboys on a thread like this.

 

[Mattb4]

The thing is, it does what you want. Except for the MPPT.

I should have bought a Multiplus instead of the Phoenix.

It doesn't do what I want. Victron, while fine equipment, lacks the features I mentioned in my first post. It is only split phase when you combine 2. It has no integrated SCC's, no control panel on unit for settings and is lacking off grid certification.

 

[Zwy]

The Growatt 3000 24v does it all, AND the MPPT, AND is half the price.

I own one, it doesn't take in 240V or pass thru power on 2 legs. Certainly doesn't have 450VOC rating.

There are other things it doesn't do the OP wanted/required.

The Ionic 3kw does it all on 12v, AND the MPPT, AND is LF for heavy loads, AND is 30% less.

Which inverter is this? I don't need an MPPT but 12V, 3Kw and LF would work in an application I have.

Not gonna find any Smurf Fanboys on a thread like this.

You don't get much sarcasm out on the boat, do you? Must be a long cruise.

 

[Zwy]

It doesn't do what I want. Victron, while fine equipment, lacks the features I mentioned in my first post. It is only split phase when you combine 2.

You wrote if output is 120V (inverter power) it could still input 240V and pass it thru, which this unit will. "If it is only 120vAC it will still charge batteries but not pass through to loads but 240vAC input will."

It has no integrated SCC's, no control panel on unit for settings and is lacking off grid certification.

Well I did say you would have to source a MPPT.

An old phone can be taped on the front using the app, there is your screen.

I looked on Victron site and it does have some UL certs.

If you want a unicorn, you have to either make it yourself or have it custom built.

 

[Mattb4]

You wrote if output is 120V (inverter power) it could still input 240V and pass it thru, which this unit will. "If it is only 120vAC it will still charge batteries but not pass through to loads but 240vAC input will."

...

Uh no..

The split phase AIO must accept power from most generators. If it is only 120vAC it will still charge batteries but not pass through to loads but 240vAC input will.

The input to the AIO from a 120vAC source would work to charge from is the gist of my request. If a 240vAC input was available it would work normally.

I agree it is a Unicorn until someone makes it. My thread here is a shout out to the void to see if any Solar inverter company is listening.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Ack! Victron. Only cost you your first born child (heck with arm and leg costs). Being an old solitaire, that never reproduced, I lack the necessary child.

so trade a niece or nephew... barring that grab a rando off the street and barter!