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MarkSolar

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
390
Location
Chicago far metro
Getting ready to do a home solar install myself, looking for a place that will take my info and put together a system that can be shipped to me. I've looked at unboundsolar.com and thesolarbiz.com, both seem reputable and capable. Looking for any recommendations.
 
I understand Alt-E store does as well.

One of their people, @SolarQueen frequents this forum and hopefully will chime in.
 
looking for a place that will take my info and put together a system that can be shipped to me
I'm guessing this group can take your info, put together a quality system, provide links so you can order it yourself and have it shipped to your door. Actually we do that everyday.

What do you need and how much quality/price do you want?
 
Would that be grid-tie, grid-backup, or completely off-grid?
Depending on whether it feeds the grid and whether the panels will be on your roof, various regulations, safety devices, features may be required by your local jurisdiction. And then there are ways to avoid being subject to those rules.
We often buy panels used or surplus, for significant savings.
 
  • It's grid tied, backfed through the subpanel in the barn it will be mounted next to. Located in Illinois at Chicago latitude.
  • Already have a whole house backup generator.
  • We're net metered so I get paid the same for what I put back as it costs me.
  • I've attached a rough sketch of layout.
  • I can use a 40A breaker and comply with all the electrical codes, so a 7.6kW system.
  • We use 1600kWhr per month average, peaks are in summer and winter which range from 2200-2400kWhr in those months. Winter spike in use is heaters for livestock, so it peaks during coldest temps. Summer is air conditioning so it peaks during hottest months.
  • Barn sheds snow right behind the array and it will be mounted on limestone screenings (which are white), so I'm thinking bifacial panels might make sense but I don't know if they're ready for prime time.
  • It's mounted in wide open spot, no shade other than tops of trees on horizon for a short time at sunset and sundown so I don't think I benefit from optimizers or microinverters.
  • There's no space constraints, so I think I'd rather have extra panels and clip a little in the summer to get as much power as possible during the winter.
Thanks for the help
 

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I went off-grid three years ago and settled on a company out of Emeryville, California called "Webo Solar". They were great to work with, responsive to questions, and quickly sent out the combiner box that was inadvertently left out of my shipment. I would use them again without hesitation.
I went back to their website, and while it has changed drastically over the three years, they still offer both grid-tie as well as off-grid complete kits as well as "balance of system" components you may find necessary.
 
Double-check breaker panel busbar rating. If Square D QO, it is a 225A busbar with 200A breaker, so you could have 70A PV breaker not just 40A.

Not rooftop array, so no requirement for Rapid Disconnect. (Which would have made microinverters a more competitive option.)
I would use high-voltage string inverter, most efficient and cost effective. I use SMA Sunny Boy. SolarEdge normally uses optimizer per panel, not sure if it would work without.
Some people here use SolArk, good pricepoint and functionality for optional battery backup. I use Sunny Island for backup; it supports GT inverters that have "frequency-watts" control of output.

You can tilt your panels toward winter for more production then.
If some of your panel strings are oriented SE and some SW, that will reduce peak output and clipping, but produce for more hours.

For net metering and not trying to operate off-grid, instead of increasing winter production at the expense of summer, you should probably tilt according to insolation calculator angle for maximum watt-hours per year. If you do orient something other than due south there will be a tilt for that.

In the event you do need occasional operation during a power failure, your generator could take care of that.
If PV panels end up seeing generator, they will think it is the grid and try to feed power into it. If it increases in frequency under no load, that may knock them off line. You might want to have a relay disconnect the inverters when running.

You might put a battery inverter between ATS and house, or between ATS and circuit for barn. That can manage GT inverters and start the generator when batteries are low.

The Sunny Island I use has 56A internal switch. Can be paralleled for 112A.
A high-voltage battery inverter Sunny Boy Storage can be paired with an external 200A transfer switch. But it's own wattage output is lower.
SolArk is also a battery inverter with internal transfer switch that supports frequency-watts. Outback and Schneider offer similar.

People do use bifacial panels. If you pay for wattage from the front face and anything from the back face is free, seems like a good idea. Especially boosting winter power.
Lots of us have bought surplus or used panels from Santan Solar.
 
Double-check breaker panel busbar rating. If Square D QO, it is a 225A busbar with 200A breaker, so you could have 70A PV breaker not just 40A.
It's Homeline, bus is 200A. Plus the subpanel has a 40A limit. My long term plan is to put in a line tap, but that requires a long trench and some heavy wire to get from the array up to the house. I can add another array in front of the one I'm putting up now. Doing this first step requires no electrician, no trenches, and no long wire runs.
Not rooftop array, so no requirement for Rapid Disconnect. (Which would have made microinverters a more competitive option.)
Really, didn't know the rapid disconnect doesn't apply to ground arrays. Why would a ground array be treated different than a roof array?
I would use high-voltage string inverter, most efficient and cost effective. I use SMA Sunny Boy. SolarEdge normally uses optimizer per panel, not sure if it would work without.
Yes, that is my thinking. I've been looking at SMA and Fronius.
You can tilt your panels toward winter for more production then. If some of your panel strings are oriented SE and some SW, that will reduce peak output and clipping, but produce for more hours.
I think I'd rather buy a few extra panels, they are cheaper than I had expected. I've got a list of things a mile long that have to be done once or twice a year, I'm reluctant to add another one.
For net metering and not trying to operate off-grid, instead of increasing winter production at the expense of summer, you should probably tilt according to insolation calculator angle for maximum watt-hours per year. If you do orient something other than due south there will be a tilt for that.
Yes I looked at that, it seems like the best compromise solution for my case. The array will fortunately face due south. I didn't plan that when we built the barn, but it sure turned out lucky.
In the event you do need occasional operation during a power failure, your generator could take care of that.
When we bought the generator our electric system was like a third world country, it was off all the time. They upgraded a bunch of stuff over the years and now a power outage is a rare event, but the generator is 22kW so it will run the whole house and barn stuff if we need it.
If PV panels end up seeing generator, they will think it is the grid and try to feed power into it. If it increases in frequency under no load, that may knock them off line. You might want to have a relay disconnect the inverters when running.
On the diagram the thing labeled "Zero Volt Release Switch" is a contactor that will drop out during a power failure and requires a human to push the start button to reconnect the array to the subpanel. It's like those switches that are on large industrial machines that keep the machine shutdown after a power outage so workers can't get hurt.
You might put a battery inverter between ATS and house, or between ATS and circuit for barn. That can manage GT inverters and start the generator when batteries are low.
There are no batteries
People do use bifacial panels. If you pay for wattage from the front face and anything from the back face is free, seems like a good idea. Especially boosting winter power.
Lots of us have bought surplus or used panels from Santan Solar.
Wow, never thought about used panels. I'll have to look into that. Do they come with any kind of warranty?
 
I went off-grid three years ago and settled on a company out of Emeryville, California called "Webo Solar". They were great to work with, responsive to questions, and quickly sent out the combiner box that was inadvertently left out of my shipment. I would use them again without hesitation.
I went back to their website, and while it has changed drastically over the three years, they still offer both grid-tie as well as off-grid complete kits as well as "balance of system" components you may find necessary.
Thanks, I'll check them out
 
Really, didn't know the rapid disconnect doesn't apply to ground arrays. Why would a ground array be treated different than a roof array?

RSD is just fireman safety, if they're walking on the roof and hacking holes. So the requirement is segmenting array so < 80V. Possibly a wattage per section limit as well.
AFCI also required only if on the roof. So many connections to go bad, and many fires have occurred. Read about Walmart/Solar city.

Yes, that is my thinking. I've been looking at SMA and Fronius.
SMA inverters have a feature "Secure Power" to manually enable up to 2000W AC direct from PV if grid is down. Might be handy.

I think I'd rather buy a few extra panels, they are cheaper than I had expected. I've got a list of things a mile long that have to be done once or twice a year, I'm reluctant to add another one.
I didn't mean manual adjustment, just fixed orientation to optimize winter production. But only if you need the production to be reasonably high in winter.

When we bought the generator our electric system was like a third world country, it was off all the time. They upgraded a bunch of stuff over the years and now a power outage is a rare event, but the generator is 22kW so it will run the whole house and barn stuff if we need it.
Big generator. Surges like that could be supplied by a battery inverter, with the generator only running occasionally.

There are no batteries
But you could add them. I put AGM batteries at $0.50/Wh over their lifetime. Maybe FLA forklift batteries would be half that. Commercial lithium batteries (like LG RESU) I think are also around $0.50/Wh. Higher price upfront, longer lifetime. DIY LiFePO4 looks like it is around $0.05/kWh. All those only if cycled enough times to wear out, which isn't likely for grid-backup.

Some inverters like SolArk I think you can start out as grid-tie and maybe batteryless backup, then add batteries if desired.
Sunny Island, Sunny Boy Storage, Outback Skybox, Schneider have battery inverters that can be added on to a system of grid-tie inverters which support frequency-watts. Some of those may be hybrid inverters that also take PV input, or others can work with DC coupled PV.

Depending on time of use rates (you may be forced onto those when you get PV, and they may become mandatory for everyone in the future), you might want to do peak shaving. Avoiding consumption at peak times is best, but some products are meant to charge battery off-peak and supply from battery on-peak. However, the commercial offerings I see cost too much compared to the spread in rates. Only DIY LiFePO4 (or "explody" repurposed EV batteries) seem cost effective. Future building codes are expected to require batteries (other than lead-acid) to be UL listed, but allow repurposed EV if located at least 5' from the house.

Wow, never thought about used panels. I'll have to look into that. Do they come with any kind of warranty?

SanTan gives a 1-year warranty on used panels. Some have UL stickers removed, some intact. He also has some surplus with manufacturer's warranty. Prices range from $0.12 to $0.50/W. Some people have bought new 500W panels straight from China. Don't know how that is going with the latest trade wars.

Some panels have had high failure/degradation rates, and some have worked fine for decades. So quality matters. Usted/tested at least means they've stood the test of time.

My system was strictly grid-tie to start. I finally added Sunny Island (there are liquidation deals due to DC solar bankruptcy.) My battery is relatively small, enough to run the house one night if grid goes down. During the day it provides starting surge for motors like A/C, and commands GT PV to adjust output to match load. Battery backup isn't cost effective, but it is convenient. Of course it can be done very small just for communications equipment, or sized to run for days without sun, or just to run major loads when the sun shines like mine.
 
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