EG4 18k in line with Grid, no batteries, zero export, outdoor mount?

[AZG]

So, I'm a total newbie (have been watching Will and co's videos), but live in Arizona and am intrigued by the EG4 18k. I've wanted to go solar forever, but financially it didn't make sense and my service provider has been very reliable. Exporting to the grid is a non-starter for me in my area, but I have 2 electric vehicles that could abosrb fall through spring generation and a large property (and I believe the 18k allows for zero export with CT limiters like the Sol Ark 15k). I would love to have an electrician help me to install the EG4 18k on a north facing wall outside if possible (so no direct sun, might even put some flashing above to divert rain). I have a 400 amp electrical service panel that I would like to have the 18k pass through to. I would like to get some pallets of used panels from San Tan Solar. I have a large shed with a south facing roof that I could install a string on, install another 2 strings on my flat roof (with parapit wall) and a 4th string West facing ground mount to help with late in the day production (I believe the 18k can take up to 600 volts per leg up to a total of 18 Kw? my shed is at least a few hudred feet from my panel- so high voltage smaller diameter wire seems best). The smart meter on my property allows me to view hourly usage and in the summer middle of the afternoon it seems to be 12k/hour roughly. This seems to pair nicely with the inverter's output capability.

Has anyone done something similar? Is it good to have strings of panels in varying orientations (same on each string and ideally same output panels)? Eventually I could add a battery to allow for usage when grid goes down, but due to the area my main panel is in, I cannot easily create an air conditioned space there and my garage is 200' away- so having back up batteries aren't in the cards for now. The 18k and Sol Ark seem to have similar outdoor operating temps- up to 60C, but AZ is obviously HOT even if the unit is in the shade- has anyone done this? I feel like the set up I described could pay for itself realatively quickly. I greatly appreciate anyone's input- so many of you seem to know an incredible amount when it comes to system design.

 

[timselectric]

For anyone else reading. Just to save on confusion. They are referring to the EG4 18kpv. EG4 doesn't offer an 18k hybrid AIO.

 

[42OhmsPA]

So, I'm a total newbie (have been watching Will and co's videos), but live in Arizona and am intrigued by the EG4 18k. I've wanted to go solar forever, but financially it didn't make sense and my service provider has been very reliable. Exporting to the grid is a non-starter for me in my area, but I have 2 electric vehicles that could abosrb fall through spring generation and a large property (and I believe the 18k allows for zero export with CT limiters like the Sol Ark 15k). I would love to have an electrician help me to install the EG4 18k on a north facing wall outside if possible (so no direct sun, might even put some flashing above to divert rain). I have a 400 amp electrical service panel that I would like to have the 18k pass through to. I would like to get some pallets of used panels from San Tan Solar. I have a large shed with a south facing roof that I could install a string on, install another 2 strings on my flat roof (with parapit wall) and a 4th string West facing ground mount to help with late in the day production (I believe the 18k can take up to 600 volts per leg up to a total of 18 Kw? my shed is at least a few hudred feet from my panel- so high voltage smaller diameter wire seems best). The smart meter on my property allows me to view hourly usage and in the summer middle of the afternoon it seems to be 12k/hour roughly. This seems to pair nicely with the inverter's output capability.

Has anyone done something similar?

Yes, try to search, lots of info.

Is it good to have strings of panels in varying orientations (same on each string and ideally same output panels)?

That's fine same type in series and qty if paralleling.
You can utilize separate mppts for different directions and have different panel count on each mppt, make sure you hit the minimum voltage with your strings.

Eventually I could add a battery to allow for usage when grid goes down, but due to the area my main panel is in, I cannot easily create an air conditioned space there and my garage is 200' away- so having back up batteries aren't in the cards for now. The 18k and Sol Ark seem to have similar outdoor operating temps- up to 60C, but AZ is obviously HOT even if the unit is in the shade- has anyone done this? I feel like the set up I described could pay for itself realatively quickly. I greatly appreciate anyone's input- so many of you seem to know an incredible amount when it comes to system design.

EG4 18kPV Q+A general thread

making sure we have all the questions covered, pls focus on straight out Q/A and check if they already are answered before posting

diysolarforum.com

Check out the EG4 thread linked above, also check out the Lux 12k thread if you're considering the EG4...

Worry about max voc input, I think it's 600v but double check.
Parallel strings to the 1st string.
At a 12kw / hour load you would be pushing it 100%, do you plan to have any surge loads during this time? The AC assist should work nicely for you.

 

[Quattrohead]

Hold on to your checkbook for a little while, I think there may be some good news soon.

 

[AZG]

Hold on to your checkbook for a little while, I think there may be some good news soon.

I'm still in the planning phaze- probably will be ready to pull trigger in few months- although I'm super curious as to what you are referring to

 

[AZG]

Yes, try to search, lots of info.

That's fine same type in series and qty if paralleling.
You can utilize separate mppts for different directions and have different panel count on each mppt, make sure you hit the minimum voltage with your strings.

EG4 18kPV Q+A general thread

making sure we have all the questions covered, pls focus on straight out Q/A and check if they already are answered before posting

diysolarforum.com

Check out the EG4 thread linked above, also check out the Lux 12k thread if you're considering the EG4...

Worry about max voc input, I think it's 600v but double check.
Parallel strings to the 1st string.
At a 12kw / hour load you would be pushing it 100%, do you plan to have any surge loads during this time? The AC assist should work nicely for you.

Thank you for the input and the link to the other thread- I will review! I did look at some comparisons between the EG4 and the Sol Ark and seems that the EG4 is the better bang for the buck- I will also check into the 12k LUX- I believe that would be the re-badged EG4 unit, right? I will have a few large ac units that will surge occasionally, but with the grid connection- it should cover those events, correct? I believe you're correct about max 600 volts per pv input

 

[AZG]

So, I'm a total newbie (have been watching Will and co's videos), but live in Arizona and am intrigued by the EG4 18k. I've wanted to go solar forever, but financially it didn't make sense and my service provider has been very reliable. Exporting to the grid is a non-starter for me in my area, but I have 2 electric vehicles that could abosrb fall through spring generation and a large property (and I believe the 18k allows for zero export with CT limiters like the Sol Ark 15k). I would love to have an electrician help me to install the EG4 18k on a north facing wall outside if possible (so no direct sun, might even put some flashing above to divert rain). I have a 400 amp electrical service panel that I would like to have the 18k pass through to. I would like to get some pallets of used panels from San Tan Solar. I have a large shed with a south facing roof that I could install a string on, install another 2 strings on my flat roof (with parapit wall) and a 4th string West facing ground mount to help with late in the day production (I believe the 18k can take up to 600 volts per leg up to a total of 18 Kw? my shed is at least a few hudred feet from my panel- so high voltage smaller diameter wire seems best). The smart meter on my property allows me to view hourly usage and in the summer middle of the afternoon it seems to be 12k/hour roughly. This seems to pair nicely with the inverter's output capability.

Has anyone done something similar? Is it good to have strings of panels in varying orientations (same on each string and ideally same output panels)? Eventually I could add a battery to allow for usage when grid goes down, but due to the area my main panel is in, I cannot easily create an air conditioned space there and my garage is 200' away- so having back up batteries aren't in the cards for now. The 18k and Sol Ark seem to have similar outdoor operating temps- up to 60C, but AZ is obviously HOT even if the unit is in the shade- has anyone done this? I feel like the set up I described could pay for itself realatively quickly. I greatly appreciate anyone's input- so many of you seem to know an incredible amount when it comes to system design.

Also, I did have another question. I used to only have a 200amp panel for my home, but then constructed a guest house and the utility insatlled a 400amp line and panel on the guest house and my old 200amp panel is serviced by the 400 panel like a sub panel. Since I don't really want to involve the utility (they would put me on a solar price plan which is terrible and eliminate my short peak pricing window), would it be better to install the EG4 18k on the 200 amp panel that used to be my main panel (which can easily be shut off with the breaker in the 400 panel) and then use the CT limiters on the main feed for the 400amp panel? Essentially back feeding my 400 panel with energy when needed in the guest house? Or how can you get the EG4 in the mix without disconnecting grid power feed?

 

[timselectric]

Also, I did have another question. I used to only have a 200amp panel for my home, but then constructed a guest house and the utility insatlled a 400amp line and panel on the guest house and my old 200amp panel is serviced by the 400 panel like a sub panel. Since I don't really want to involve the utility (they would put me on a solar price plan which is terrible and eliminate my short peak pricing window), would it be better to install the EG4 18k on the 200 amp panel that used to be my main panel (which can easily be shut off with the breaker in the 400 panel) and then use the CT limiters on the main feed for the 400amp panel? Essentially back feeding my 400 panel with energy when needed in the guest house? Or how can you get the EG4 in the mix without disconnecting grid power feed?

That should be fine. You'll be well under the 20% rule. Which would be 80a through the 400a panel bus.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thank you for the input and the link to the other thread- I will review! I did look at some comparisons between the EG4 and the Sol Ark and seems that the EG4 is the better bang for the buck-

I will also check into the 12k LUX- I believe that would be the re-badged EG4 unit, right?

Other way around. Eg4 is rebadged Lux.

I will have a few large ac units that will surge occasionally, but with the grid connection- it should cover those events, correct? I believe you're correct about max 600 volts per pv input

I would assume so based on the specs.

 

[AZG]

That should be fine. You'll be well under the 20% rule. Which would be 80a through the 400a panel bus.

I read through what I could understand from reading all 44 pages of the EG4 18k thread- whew! I do have another question- I have an energy hog in my guest house in the form of a tankless electric water heater (also a steamer for a shower and 2.5 ton AC)- I also ran 220' of THHN 1 to a separate sub panel in my garage for my electric car chargers all from the 400 amp panel. They pull a LOT of amperage when used (the tankless water heater is used spurratically lots each day). Is this ok being that the grid will support those loads? But since the breakers for the tankless water heater, car charger sub panel, AC and steamer are in the guest house 400 amp panel will it cause any issues with the EG4 18k if it's installed at my 200 amp main home panel which will be backfeeding the 400 guest house panel when the sun is shining? The EG4 18k is limited to 12k watts, so if it's running at maximum and all the loads are coming from the guest house 400 amp panel (mostly 220 V) that would be ~55amps, so within the 80a allotment you mentioned. But also would those large power draws cause more residual when they turn off that could flow past the CTs into the smart meter? From what I've read it seems that the firmware was updated to better manage zero export.

 

[Quattrohead]

tankless electric water heater (also a steamer for a shower

I would not run these on any unit that is powering the house in general. When they kick on, you are going to see lights dimming and hear your fridge groan.
I know some do charge EV's with inverters and this is OK because their charger ramps up the current so the inverter has time to adjust, but a hard resistive load will hurt the output from the inverter for a few hundred milliseconds.

 

[Zapper77]

I read through what I could understand from reading all 44 pages of the EG4 18k thread- whew! I do have another question- I have an energy hog in my guest house in the form of a tankless electric water heater (also a steamer for a shower and 2.5 ton AC)- I also ran 220' of THHN 1 to a separate sub panel in my garage for my electric car chargers all from the 400 amp panel. They pull a LOT of amperage when used (the tankless water heater is used spurratically lots each day). Is this ok being that the grid will support those loads? But since the breakers for the tankless water heater, car charger sub panel, AC and steamer are in the guest house 400 amp panel will it cause any issues with the EG4 18k if it's installed at my 200 amp main home panel which will be backfeeding the 400 guest house panel when the sun is shining? The EG4 18k is limited to 12k watts, so if it's running at maximum and all the loads are coming from the guest house 400 amp panel (mostly 220 V) that would be ~55amps, so within the 80a allotment you mentioned. But also would those large power draws cause more residual when they turn off that could flow past the CTs into the smart meter? From what I've read it seems that the firmware was updated to better manage zero export.

Wait, Your guest house has a 400 amp subpanel but your main is only 200?

Short answer...I wouldn't even bother with the steamer or tankless. (Would need more energy usage details)

Need a wiring diagram of your electric system before I can help, or a plan how you want to wire the 18kpv in to your system. (How much solar, batteries, NEC compliant/inspected?)

When a heavy load drops you will see a backfeed for a split second if you are using grid assist.

 

[timselectric]

I read through what I could understand from reading all 44 pages of the EG4 18k thread- whew! I do have another question- I have an energy hog in my guest house in the form of a tankless electric water heater (also a steamer for a shower and 2.5 ton AC)- I also ran 220' of THHN 1 to a separate sub panel in my garage for my electric car chargers all from the 400 amp panel. They pull a LOT of amperage when used (the tankless water heater is used spurratically lots each day). Is this ok being that the grid will support those loads? But since the breakers for the tankless water heater, car charger sub panel, AC and steamer are in the guest house 400 amp panel will it cause any issues with the EG4 18k if it's installed at my 200 amp main home panel which will be backfeeding the 400 guest house panel when the sun is shining? The EG4 18k is limited to 12k watts, so if it's running at maximum and all the loads are coming from the guest house 400 amp panel (mostly 220 V) that would be ~55amps, so within the 80a allotment you mentioned. But also would those large power draws cause more residual when they turn off that could flow past the CTs into the smart meter? From what I've read it seems that the firmware was updated to better manage zero export.

I don't see any issues with that. It sounds like you have more than enough loads to keep you well on the import side, at all times.

 

[timselectric]

@Quattrohead @Zapper77
All of these large loads will be on the grid side of the AIO. Shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Zapper77]

I don't see any issues with that. It sounds like you have more than enough loads to keep you well on the import side, at all times.

That's one way to do it.

BTW my smart meter never reported any grid feed. Power company said the meter reports usage every 15 minutes.

 

[Quattrohead]

There is a combination of firmware and settings that seem like a pretty good way around this, a few of us are testing it right now.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

That's one way to do it.

BTW my smart meter never reported any grid feed. Power company said the meter reports usage every 15 minutes.

I think the export question may be too academic for the power companies at the levels being detected. we are reviewing but again, I get larger export wattage leakage from all other hybrid brands

 

[AZG]

Wait, Your guest house has a 400 amp subpanel but your main is only 200?

Short answer...I wouldn't even bother with the steamer or tankless. (Would need more energy usage details)

Need a wiring diagram of your electric system before I can help, or a plan how you want to wire the 18kpv in to your system. (How much solar, batteries, NEC compliant/inspected?)

When a heavy load drops you will see a backfeed for a split second if you are using grid assist.

I don't have the system set up yet, but I am connected to the grid at the 400amp panel pictured below. You can see the main house 200 amp breaker and the 125 amp sub panel breaker below the A/C on the left side of the panel. I'm not planning on using batteries to start with since I can hopefully utilize charging my vehicles with the excess generation certain times of year.

 

[AZG]

I don't see any issues with that. It sounds like you have more than enough loads to keep you well on the import side, at all times.

During this time of year for sure, but if I'm gone and my wife leaves, then there won't be a car there to soak it up in the late fall through early spring we don't really use the 4 full sized ac units cooling our 2 structures.

 

[AZG]

@Quattrohead @Zapper77
All of these large loads will be on the grid side of the AIO. Shouldn't be a problem.

That's good to hear- so if they kick on (especially the water heater) it'll just start the pull from the grid before the 18k attempts to offset? And then when they (ie tankless water heater) power down, whatever is left will hopfully dissapate in the 400 amp panel to other power needs- lights/fan/fridge/vampire draw stuff?