Extra/Auxilary grounding rods..... Don't do it.

[timselectric]

I give up.
My time is better served elsewhere.
I'm happy to help anyone with electrical grounding questions.
But lightning protection is a non starter for the members.

 

[AntronX]

I give up.

Equipment lightning protection is very though problem to solve. Electrical safety grounding is easy but does not protect your gear from lighting.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Excellent discussion here. Thank you.
Sitting back and absorbing / digesting feedback like a sponge.

Thinking ahead to my next build... What's everyone's favorite method for driving a grounding rod in rocky ground?
The last one I put in kicked my ass, a hammer drill worked surprisingly well with a hex adapter and large socket (it's what I had available at the time). I think a rotary hammer with a proper attachment makes the most sense?
What's the recommendation for re-torquing the ground rod clamp, is it even necessary?

 

[timselectric]

Equipment lightning protection is very though problem to solve. Electrical safety grounding is easy but does not protect your gear from lighting.

Lightning protection isn't hard. But it is expensive.
And not worth it unless protecting very expensive equipment.
Solar panels are cheap, by comparison.

 

[timselectric]

I think a rotary hammer with a proper attachment makes the most sense?

Best option.

What's the recommendation for re-torquing the ground rod clamp, is it even necessary?

I've never come across any that have loosened.
(Rotted away is a different story)

 

[gotbeans]

Why does a houses plumbing (old copper days) have to be grounded? So it’s tied to the closest ground source.

because electricity loves copper and we want to give them a private place to go

 

[AntronX]

Lightning protection isn't hard. But it is expensive.

Lightning rods connected to separate ground rods? That will not save your gear.

 

[timselectric]

Lightning rods connected to separate ground rods? That will not save your gear.

I'm not going to get deep into here.
But , multiple air terminals placed above and around the equipment that you want to protect. Connected together with multiple paths to earth.
Definitely not Connected to or through the equipment that you want to protect.

 

[Supervstech]

That’s an improper assumption, concrete is a decent insulator (in the grand scheme of things)

Also foundation cages maybe 10-15’ below grade, 30’-40’ ground rods are very very common.

Concrete is a conductor, same as a swimming pool in the eyes of the nec.
When setting clearances to switchgear to conductive surfaces, concrete walls, and floors are considered conductors.

 

[Quattrohead]

Can we at least agree there are three purposes for grounding, personal safety, dissipating static electricity and the vein hope that you can steer lightning away from your equipment.

I know we can agree that personal safety is important and if you get a direct hit from lightning you will be having a bad day.

 

[gotbeans]

Can we at least agree there are three purposes for grounding, personal safety, dissipating static electricity and the vein hope that you can steer lightning away from your equipment.

I know we can agree that personal safety is important and if you get a direct hit from lightning you will be having a bad day.

Personally, I'd rather my equipment survive than me
If my equipment dies I have to rebuild blah blah blah.
If it gets injured it doesn't heal. If I get injured I heal.
If I am dead I don't have to worry about any of it.

 

[timselectric]

Can we at least agree there are three purposes for grounding, personal safety, dissipating static electricity and the vein hope that you can steer lightning away from your equipment.

I know we can agree that personal safety is important and if you get a direct hit from lightning you will be having a bad day.

Absolutely
As long as we agree that we are talking about two different grounding systems.
One is for electrical safety.
One is for lightning protection.
And either will dissipate static.

 

[740GLE]

Concrete is a conductor, same as a swimming pool in the eyes of the nec.
When setting clearances to switchgear to conductive surfaces, concrete walls, and floors are considered conductors.

How about this I probably should have said, concrete/cement is a better insulator than a conductor, especially when compared to a copper ground rod.

 

[Supervstech]

Can we at least agree there are three purposes for grounding, personal safety, dissipating static electricity and the vein hope that you can steer lightning away from your equipment.

I know we can agree that personal safety is important and if you get a direct hit from lightning you will be having a bad day.

There are lightning protection grounding systems.
The NEC grounding system connected to your home or business panel is not one of them.

There are surge arrestors that can shield some amount of lightning energy, but they do not prevent lightning.

There are lightning rods and lightning disipation spikes that should NEVER be connected to your electrical system...

 

[Supervstech]

How about this I probably should have said, concrete/cement is a better insulator than a conductor, especially when compared to a copper ground rod.

IDK... i treat it as a conductor. Would i run power through it? No... but i trust that a body in contact with concrete and a live conductor is goint to have a bad day.

 

[timselectric]

How about this I probably should have said, concrete/cement is a better insulator than a conductor, especially when compared to a copper ground rod.

A concrete encased electrode is a much better electrical ground connection to earth than a standard ground rod.

 

[pvdude]

A concrete encased electrode

Interesting science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground

 

[Quattrohead]

And my new build the only ground is a UFER. Let's throw that into this discussion LOL

 

[Zwy]

Why does a houses plumbing (old copper days) have to be grounded? So it’s tied to the closest ground source.

Metallic piping is grounded so people don't get electrocuted when touching the piping and metal items attached to the piping in case of a ground fault.

As for the rest of your arguments, if you want to install 10 or 100 ground electrodes (because your mind is made up given the responses) then do it. I think you should install at least 100 spaced every ten feet across your yard. As for concrete being an insulator, you must have never heard of ufer ground.

 

[FilterGuy]

And my new build the only ground is a UFER. Let's throw that into this discussion LOL

That is to code...... as long as your pipes are all plastic and there is nothing else that could be an earth ground.

The way the code reads is that anything in the building that could be a grounding electrode *is* a grounding electrode and must be bound together.

And yes, it turns out the UFER ground is one of the best types of grounding electrodes. They will meet the 25 ohm requirement and will last nearly forever and there is a limited chance of them being damaged or changed by later remodels of the building.