I get two power bills at my house so now I'm looking into solar.

[Shimmy]

You really need to start with your home square footage. I would suggest logging temperature sensors for the spaces you use, but at least increase the setpoints for rooms you don't use, especially the ones that are unused during the day.

The second piece of information is monthly kWh and peak kW info. Give all 12 months.

 

[1201]

The good news for op is that any pv power produced will immediately be consumed. No worrying about what to do with excess, or exporting to the grid

 

[Supervstech]

Hi folks,

I live in a larger home and receive TWO power bills. I always just accepted that it is what it is but last summer was insane. My average monthly power bill last summer was $2,500 and now I am looking to add some solar. I don't think I can make a complete shift to solar but just be able to bring my costs down.

I've watched plenty of Will Prouse's videos and want to make some moves so I'll be lurking here to get more ideas and recommendations from other users on this forum.

V/R
Ron

I remodeled a 5plex in charlotte that had two mainpanels off a 450A service.
The house had 5 ac units with gas furnaces...
I replaced 4 systems with a single 5 ton inverter driven heat pump, no aux strips, and a single 3 ton inverter drive heat pump on the main floor unit, with a high efficiency gas variable dual fuel setup...

After the reworking, the power company kept sending TWO bills for the property.
Everything was doubled... i guess because i reduced their energy consumption about 75% in summer, and all but emiminated their gas bill. (They have a 90+efficiency water heater supplying the entire place) duke must have just assumed it was a mistake and doubled their bill.

Finally, after two years of fighting it, and showing PRECICELYduplicate bills the customer got them to fix the bill...

Make sure you are recording EVERY meter reading every month, and make sure you arent paying for twice the energy you use.

 

[plympton]

Reducing load became a game to me. My whole house idles about 200w now. My critical loads are about 500w above that, but it’s all solar/battery powered. It’s amazing what picking away at things does - upgrading to efficient items when it’s time, insulating here and there, dialing back the thermostat a bit.

Good luck, and welcome to the game. My first month I saved $50 on my power bill - but that was close to a 40% reduction. And it wasn’t even a great solar month!

 

[dougbert]

Reducing load became a game to me. My whole house idles about 200w now. My critical loads are about 500w above that, but it’s all solar/battery powered. It’s amazing what picking away at things does - upgrading to efficient items when it’s time, insulating here and there, dialing back the thermostat a bit.

Good luck, and welcome to the game. My first month I saved $50 on my power bill - but that was close to a 40% reduction. And it wasn’t even a great solar month!

way to go, especially in my birth city

So far this year, did not buy any grid power since march 3rd. hopefully that can continue until late october. Just added to battery, 10kwh - hope that helps
I need more panels, and also more battery

it is a LOAD HUNT for sure

 

[AntronX]

OP can easily fit 30 - 35 kW worth of panels on his roof. No energy conservation necessary.

 

[Hedges]

I snooped around a bit and found 5 houses with PV so far. There are more in Seven Hills.
View attachment 210941View attachment 210942View attachment 210943View attachment 210944View attachment 210945

Looks like my neighborhood (present company excepted)

Fancy architectural rooflines, zero consideration of good areas for PV panels.
Except for your top left picture, which looks under-utilized.

The AC coupling advice seems like the route to follow at this point.

Is net metering available?
You can net meter/AC couple a large amount, maybe enough to cover 100% of load and let grid supply starting surge.
If you pay for turnkey installation at $3/W, that amortizes out to $0.025/kWh over 20 years (neglecting time value of money). Compare that to your utility rates.

You should have at least some part of the house and some A/C set as grid-backup with batteries, so you can be comfortable during power failures. Include all fridge/freezer on that circuit.

Each system has some limit on PV.

My SMA can do 24kW from batteries and AC couple 24kW of PV for grid-backup operation. While switched off grid, it can support 48kW PV (manual transfer switch, not feeding through its relays.)

SolArk supports maybe 18kW of DC coupled PV and up to same amount of AC coupled, so 36kW of PV on a single inverter. Should be able to double that with two.

Beyond that, you could have additional AC coupled PV straight to grid, not going through a grid-backup inverter.

 

[HarryN]

Sooner or later, your region will have power rates that look more or less like:
- fixed price per month to be attached to the grid even with zero usage
- Premium price for kW-hrs consumed during peak usage times of day - often ~ 2 - 8 pm.

Many solar installs produce the most power from ~ 11 - 3 pm and more or less none later in the day when it is needed the most.

One approach is to install massive battery packs to time - shift the power from "time when it is produced" to "time when it is needed".

I am a big fan of trying to aim the solar panels toward "time when it is needed" and using a much smaller battery pack.

 

[HarryN]

As far as your air conditioners, they become massively inefficient when the sun is shining on them because modern refrigerants cannot condense when it is not, compared to less ozone friendly refrigerants used in the past.

Refrigerants that can do this include R290 although it is not widely used in the US - it is widely used in the middle east countries as they experience high temperatures routinely.

It might make sense to consider water cooled condensers with that much heat load.

Are you under severe water use restrictions or is that not a super big deal?

 

[SevenHillsResident]

I really appreciate the advice. We are trying to get as much knowledge about our options because we've been hit up by so many solar companies and I hear of so many horror stories. My other concern is that we won't need to finance it so I have a feeling that they will inflate prices to make up the difference in financing fees they won't make.

I'll be sharing this with my electrician because even though he knows a bit about solar, you guys are the real SME's and you don't have financial reason to lead us down one path or the other.

I'll try to reply to questions from the previous posts.

V/R
Ron

 

[SoggyShoes]

....
It does sound like you are in a pickle with HOA and where you could install panels without upsetting someone.
....

Nevada law (278.0208) does not allow HOAs to restrict solar systems.

NRS: CHAPTER 278 - PLANNING AND ZONING

Also Nevada Assembly Bill 405 (passed in 2017) requires Utilities to allow customers to be able to install solar generation and energy storage. It also sets up net metering for customers.
https://puc.nv.gov/Renewable_Energy/Renewable_Energy_Bill_of_Rights/

Net Metering

puc.nv.gov

 

[Texican]

do you have a pool or spa running ?
I guess its a plus that you have so many hvac units vs fewer larger ones.

there has to be a way you can lower costs of hvac by shutting down/raising temps of some areas at some times.

cant just set 11 hvac units at 70 without a huge bill in the summer. are there wings or levels that are not frequently used ?

absolutely install the emporia vues, having information on what load uses what and when, is step number one

 

[740GLE]

Nevada law (278.0208) does not allow HOAs to restrict solar systems.

NRS: CHAPTER 278 - PLANNING AND ZONING

Also Nevada Assembly Bill 405 (passed in 2017) requires Utilities to allow customers to be able to install solar generation and energy storage. It also sets up net metering for customers.
https://puc.nv.gov/Renewable_Energy/Renewable_Energy_Bill_of_Rights/

Net Metering

puc.nv.gov

Ahh good deal.

Interesting if local HOA warriors still put up a stink in defining/approving specific aspects of an install.

 

[SoggyShoes]

Ahh good deal.

Interesting if local HOA warriors still put up a stink in defining/approving specific aspects of an install.

I think this law pretty much neutered the HOAs on the issue. I have a buddy that lives in Vegas and he installed solar pretty much as soon as the law was passed. His HOA huffed and puffed but couldn't do anything about it. Now, I think almost all his neighbors have solar.

In reading the law it looks like HOAs, municipal building and zoning departments, or even deeds cannot do anything that would reduce the production or efficiency of a solar system by more than 10% without an alternative that does not change the comparable cost, efficiency or performance. Also, no prohibiting a system "that uses components painted with black solar glazing".
With the price of wire and mounting systems it seems like it would be easy to show any change would cost significantly more.

Plus Nevada's posted "Renewable Energy Bill of Rights" includes some broad language that really puts any HOA, planning or zoning department, or electric company in quick liability if they impede the connection of the system.

3. .....be allowed to connect his or her system that generates renewable energy or stores energy,...​

(a) In a timely manner;....​

6. Have his or her generation of renewable energy given priority in planning and acquisition of energy resources by an electric utility.​

I didn't realize that many states have laws that prohibit restricting solar access and even in neighbors blocking the sun to existing solar on your property! https://palmetto.com/learning-center/blog/solar-access-laws-by-state

 

[dougbert]

I really appreciate the advice. We are trying to get as much knowledge about our options because we've been hit up by so many solar companies and I hear of so many horror stories. My other concern is that we won't need to finance it so I have a feeling that they will inflate prices to make up the difference in financing fees they won't make.

I'll be sharing this with my electrician because even though he knows a bit about solar, you guys are the real SME's and you don't have financial reason to lead us down one path or the other.

I'll try to reply to questions from the previous posts.

V/R
Ron

you will find many solar companies have their own selections of product they will install and nothing else. My son had a system installed and they did SolarEdge stuff great stuff, but only other SolarEdge stuff will work with it. To top it off, the team that installed it shutup shop and are gone. SolarEdge inverters have a "super" user that only trained SolarEdge guys can get. Hence my son cannot maintain the system himself. He has to find another SolarEdge installer to do the work. To the DIYers here, that causes teeth grinding

I have mentioned the 18kPV several times. If you help your electrician to learn about that product, it would add value to him and your self.

same applies to the Sol-Ark

FWIW

 

[Nobodybusiness]

My average monthly power bill last summer was $2,500

Wow. You could build quite the system for that kind of money.

 

[Hedges]

I have mentioned the 18kPV several times. If you help your electrician to learn about that product, it would add value to him and your self.

Or SolArk, which is popular.

HighTechLab (Dexter of Current Connected) is vendor and forum member people find helpful and honest. He sells several major brands.

But the key will be finding an installer who can put in what you want.

I would previously have suggested having multiple SMA Sunny Boy systems installed on a few sub-panels, then adding one or more Sunny Island battery inverter systems feeding some not necessarily all of those. With new models replacing old, not yet sure how well that works.

High-frequency hybrids are taking over.

Midnight Rosie is new. It is supposed to be stackable and supports AC coupling. Watch that space.

 

[Bleedingblue]

I'm no where near your level of electricity use. For my home I have 19kw in panels, 150kw in LiFePO4, and 4-6500ex inverters. My bills were around $600 a month originally at 12 cents a Kw. Now in the spring it's 40 bucks only because I still have some freezers hooked up to grid current.
This is all about lowering your huge bill so something is better than nothing.

For you I'd say get the highest most efficient panels you can find and hopefully hit the 20kw mark. You need probably 40kw or more. Bare minimum of 300kw of LiFePO4. If you can buy a lot more then do so but you have to charge em up.
You have to find your peak on electricity use on inverter size.

 

[SevenHillsResident]

A local solar company that two friends recommended is coming out this Friday to give an estimate. The one reason that I feel comfortable having him come over is because it's all done in house and not a small shop that contracts everything out. I've lurked on various forums about the horror stories of solar companies hiring out shady or lazy companies that sub's and it ends up a huge mess.

I want to hear what he has recommends after our meeting. Also, I really do appreciate the advice from all those who have responded because it will give me a better idea of where we both stand.

V/R
Ron

 

[SevenHillsResident]

OK.. here are the two power bill totals from March 3 through April 3. We haven't had to use the A/C much so the bills are relatively low this month at a total for $818.63.