Is it possible to harvest and store enough solar in summer to carry you through winter?

[Zwy]

What brand of wood boiler are you installing? Just from your description, it sounds like it might be a Garn.

I actually found a 7 year old Eko where the 80 year old fella had his wife tell him he couldn't heat with wood anymore. $1300 and he is throwing in for free all the extra pumps and other parts like the Laddomat. I do have to travel to get it, you don't find much around here. I'm building a detached garage to house it in with a guest room and room for all my woodworking tools. I've had those spread out in 3 buildings for too long.

He had about a 500 gallon thermal storage tank but I already have a pair of 535 gallon tanks.

 

[MattiFin]

Huge water tank is actually borderline possible solution for seasonal thermal energy storage.

For example 8x8x3m = 192m3 water tank built under the house foundation would store about 10MWh if used from 85 to 40 degrees and insulated with 500mm layer of PIR foam it would lose about 0.12% of stored energy per day on average.

Insulating the tank would take about 20 000 euros/usd but compared to 10 MWh electric battery this is pretty much pocket money.

 

[AntronX]

Build your new house on top of DOT-111 (114m³) rail tank car in the basement.

 

[seneysolar]

Mitsubishi back plan for huge 'compressed air' green energy storage in German salt caverns

Japanese-owned Eneco and CAES specialist have agreed to develop project near German border with the Netherlands

www.rechargenews.com

 

[highwaypirate]

Like how we grow crops in summer to take us through winter can the same be done for solar or do batteries not hold charge for long enough for it to be feasible?

I know you could do what my mum does with the solar on her roof and sell solar back to the grid and buy that back again but that does not apply here as I am talking about self sufficiency.

Believe it or not... someone has attempted this before. I don't know his exact setup specs, but he's built up multiple systems that each lead into the own power boxes. While it was godly expensive and some-what works, he was able to squeeze just over 7 weeks without needing to turn his panels back on. I don't know what his power usage was, but I'd guess it wasn't heavy as most others are.

We spotted him while servicing a tower in north-west Ontario; we thought his property was some sort of a harvest station ran by the government lol. It just goes to show what some people can do when such an incredible idea comes to mind.

 

[OffGridForGood]

We spotted him while servicing a tower in north-west Ontario;

Damn, I've been spotted!

he was able to squeeze just over 7 weeks

Actually, solar is generally good by 15-21 of January until mid October. If he could build up that system to get 10-12 weeks, he would be set.
I don't know what daily energy they are running, but in my own system even with 99kWh ESS I am 2.5 days with 'normal operation' or 4 if we are in conservation-mode (no dryer! limit Hot water!) - it all depends on how you live, and how many teen-agers are in the house!

 

[sun_of_a...]

Pumped Hydro Storage. You could dig any size ponds/lakes you want. Scale it up enough and the OP's seasonal storage becomes feasible.

I would love to just have enough pumped hydro storage for just a few cloudy days, but, alas, it's dead flat where I live, and mounding that much dirt for an elevated pond seems cost prohibitive. But if I had natural elevation, I'd sure love to do it.

 

[Johneb]

Pumped Hydro Storage. You could dig any size ponds/lakes you want. Scale it up enough and the OP's seasonal storage becomes feasible.

I would love to just have enough pumped hydro storage for just a few cloudy days, but, alas, it's dead flat where I live, and mounding that much dirt for an elevated pond seems cost prohibitive. But if I had natural elevation, I'd sure love to do it.

Water tower.

 

[DIYrich]

Pumped Hydro Storage. You could dig any size ponds/lakes you want. Scale it up enough and the OP's seasonal storage becomes feasible.

I would love to just have enough pumped hydro storage for just a few cloudy days, but, alas, it's dead flat where I live, and mounding that much dirt for an elevated pond seems cost prohibitive. But if I had natural elevation, I'd sure love to do it.

Until the lake freezes.

 

[summit]

Water tower.

actually thought about this, as we're on a slight hill, having a tank top & bottom. But upon looking into the effective effeciency (pump loss/regen...), back of envelope estimate is ~60% at best.

 

[OM617YOTA]

How much water do you need at what height to store a meaningful amount of energy? Seems like it would take a multi acre pond at the very least to have any hope of getting close to supplying needs across the winter months.

 

[sun_of_a...]

Until the lake freeze

How much water do you need at what height to store a meaningful amount of energy? Seems like it would take a multi acre pond at the very least to have any hope of getting close to supplying needs across the winter months.

Water tower.

Yea, you'd have to scale it way up, and in cold climate drain water from upper reservoir from deep enough not to freeze, and possibly use power to heat the exposed lines, etc. It rarely freezes that bad for very long where I am, but it's dead flat. I've thought about a water tower but limited capacity is a bummer. Compressed air, by the way, turns out to be an interesting way to lift water without water pumps. Bubbles naturally rising lift water in, eg, a 6 inch diameter pipe as they rise, but only up maybe 50-60 feet vertically, as I recall.

EDIT it could be as little as half that vertical maximum/head. 25-30 feet, not sure.

 

[Johneb]

Water tank on your roof.

 

[sun_of_a...]

Water tank on your roof.

Pitched roof here. But in attic? And as a thermal battery and home heating? (But what about water leaks! Good for fire suppression, I suppose. Ha ha

Water tank on your roof.

Do clogged gutters count?

 

[Hedges]

60% efficient is fine, if it lets you store PV generated power from the summer until winter.
PV costs you about $0.025/kWh. Generator would cost you $1.00/kWh
50% efficiency would mean winter electricity costs you $0.05/kWh

 

[kommando]

Been tried in Ireland

https://scanhome.ie/research/solarseasonal.php

Used solar thermal to heat up 23m3 of water in an insulated tank.

Once you read the study you find, as the house was unoccupied for months in the study period and no heat was being consumed, its not viable.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Water tank on your roof.

I've thought of downspout power. We get 20+ inches of rain some months here.

Yea, you'd have to scale it way up, and in cold climate drain water from upper reservoir from deep enough not to freeze, and possibly use power to heat the exposed lines, etc. It rarely freezes that bad for very long where I am, but it's dead flat. I've thought about a water tower but limited capacity is a bummer. Compressed air, by the way, turns out to be an interesting way to lift water without water pumps. Bubbles naturally rising lift water in, eg, a 6 inch diameter pipe as they rise, but only up maybe 50-60 feet vertically, as I recall.

EDIT it could be as little as half that vertical maximum/head. 25-30 feet, not sure.

Might have to raise water in steps using a bubble pump. Get mighty Rube Goldberg in a hurry.

 

[sun_of_a...]

Get mighty Rube Goldberg in a hurry.

Yes, I won't even mention my hair-brained imaginings for storing compressed air. All I can say is, never gonna happen, but dreamers dream.

 

[Johneb]

actually thought about this, as we're on a slight hill, having a tank top & bottom. But upon looking into the effective effeciency (pump loss/regen...), back of envelope estimate is ~60% at best.

Water tower at top of incline. Dig hole at bottom of incline for botyom tank. Windmill to pump water back to top tank.

 

[sunworshipper]

Like how we grow crops in summer to take us through winter can the same be done for solar or do batteries not hold charge for long enough for it to be feasible?

I know you could do what my mum does with the solar on her roof and sell solar back to the grid and buy that back again but that does not apply here as I am talking about self sufficiency.

I tried this almost 15 years ago on a limited scale. I bought four 100 AH lead acid flooded type batteries (12V). Charged them fully. Then drained the acid/electrolyte in to a polyethylene container, rinsed the cells with distilled water and put them away. After several months, refilled the cells with the acid. As I recall, I was able to a significant amount of energy and was quite surprised. Don't have my notes from those tests. I think I repeated it a couple of more times, storing the acid for several days and refilling the cells. Don't recall why I stopped those tests, most likely got distracted with something else. I believe this method has some value for long term energy storage, but I see one drawback. The Pb & PbO plates of the cells participate in the reaction and are ultimately covered with PbSO4. Once this happens, the reaction must be reversed. Unlike lead acid cells, the electrodes of a redox flow battery don't participate in the reaction. As long as you have a steady supply of "charged" electrolyte, you can generate electrical power.