Should Daly SOC read the same as the Smartshunt?

[onrbikes]

Have recently installed a balanced set of Lifepo4 batteries with a Daly bms.
It's hooked up to my Eadysolar via a smartshunt.
I control it all via 2 seperate apps and works good I think.
Should both the Victron app and the Daly app have the same SOC reading.
At the moment the Daly reads about %5 less.
When the smartshunt is at %100 it still allows a trickle in.
The lifepo4 are set at a max volt of 28.2v. They sit there for about 10 minutes and temperature never changes.
Thanks

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Have recently installed a balanced set of Lifepo4 batteries with a Daly bms.
It's hooked up to my Eadysolar via a smartshunt.
I control it all via 2 seperate apps and works good I think.
Should both the Victron app and the Daly app have the same SOC reading.
At the moment the Daly reads about %5 less.
When the smartshunt is at %100 it still allows a trickle in.
The lifepo4 are set at a max volt of 28.2v. They sit there for about 10 minutes and temperature never changes.
Thanks

All measuring devices will have inconsistencies between them.

Smartshunt has an efficiency setting, which will alter how it counts current.

The "charged" criteria of the smartshunt by definition will always show some incoming current once it syncs to 100%.

I don't know how to alter the DALY's "charged" criteria. On a JBD, you can tweak this on a cell voltage basis, and it also triggers 100% if OVP is triggered.

28.2V may require a little longer than 10 minutes to actually get fully charged.

 

[onrbikes]

All measuring devices will have inconsistencies between them.

Smartshunt has an efficiency setting, which will alter how it counts current.

The "charged" criteria of the smartshunt by definition will always show some incoming current once it syncs to 100%.

I don't know how to alter the DALY's "charged" criteria. On a JBD, you can tweak this on a cell voltage basis, and it also triggers 100% if OVP is triggered.

28.2V may require a little longer than 10 minutes to actually get fully charged.

If I have the absorption (28.2v ) any longer the bms doesn't take it in.
The Daly also can be tweaked
But will try it longer to see what happens.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

If I have the absorption (28.2v ) any longer the bms doesn't take it in.
The Daly also can be tweaked
But will try it longer to see what happens.

Is that due to OVP?

 

[onrbikes]

Is that due to OVP?

I don't know.
The sum volt high protect is set at 28.7 but it never reaches that.
From my limited understanding is that batteries SOC should be %20 -%80.
Getting them to %100 can be take a very long time and nit vet beneficial

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I don't know.
The sum volt high protect is set at 28.7 but it never reaches that.

Why?

From my limited understanding is that batteries SOC should be %20 -%80.

Not correct at all. LFP is not NCA/NMC/LMO/LiPo chemistry. It does not experience the same degradation associated with 100% charges, particularly if done at lower voltage and current over longer times.

Getting them to %100 can be take a very long time and nit vet beneficial

I don't know what that means.

Charging to 100% is very beneficial. LFP periodically needs full or near full charges to ensure the cells stay balanced. If the cells get out of balance, capacity can be lost - sometimes substantial.

Additionally, BMS become increasingly inaccurate if they aren't synced to 100% regularly.

 

[onrbikes]

That's a typo.
Getting them to %100 can take a long time and not be very beneficial.

I'm reading as much as possible on lifepo4 as am very new to these batteries. 20 years of lead acid has be thinking different.

How often should the lifepi4 battery be synced to %100?
I suppose they don't reach the sum volt high protect of 28.7v because that's the max.
What am I missing?

 

[Checkthisout]

You can manually set the Daly to read any level of charge you want.

Daly does not accurately measure current at low amperage unless you change the shunt ohm reading but then the thing is susceptible to picking up a bunch of noise and amps that don't exist, depending on how noisy your charging source is.

Also be careful with the Daly as it uses state of charge to turn off the charging Mosfet.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

That's a typo.
Getting them to %100 can take a long time and not be very beneficial.

Charging to 100% is very beneficial. LFP periodically needs full or near full charges to ensure the cells stay balanced. If the cells get out of balance, capacity can be lost - sometimes substantial.

Additionally, BMS become increasingly inaccurate if they aren't synced to 100% regularly.

I'm reading as much as possible on lifepo4 as am very new to these batteries. 20 years of lead acid has be thinking different.

There are differences, but it's important to get info from good sources. Even people in related industries can get it wrong - like RV AC-DC converter manufacturers.

How often should the lifepi4 battery be synced to %100?

As often as possible.

I suppose they don't reach the sum volt high protect of 28.7v because that's the max.
What am I missing?

I got confused. The answer should be because you have your max charge voltage to 28.2V.

Do you reach 28.2V regularly?

Also be careful with the Daly as it uses state of charge to turn off the charging Mosfet.

I did not know this. This is just stupid. Another reason to hate DALY.

 

[onrbikes]

It eaily reaches 28.2v daily. By 10am.

When you say %100 synced as often as possible, how often?. Daily.
Weekly?

In my area of rural West Australia are at least 4 others with Daly BMS.
They all swear by them. This way I have a network of people to talk to if something goes wrong. Once the battery set was balanced, I used the same settings as them.

The dealers are just that...Dealers.
No idea or experience in stand alone living. They have zero advice when something goes wrong, and the only fix they can give is to purchase something else.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

It eaily reaches 28.2v daily. By 10am.

And the earlier question, is the BMS cutting off current once 28.2V is reached, or can you observe current flowing in?

When you say %100 synced as often as possible, how often?. Daily.
Weekly?

If you can, there's no reason not to. If you can't you should at least once every 1-2 weeks.

It's about maintaining SoC accuracy and allowing sufficient time above 3.40V for balancing.

In my area of rural West Australia are at least 4 others with Daly BMS.
They all swear by them. This way I have a network of people to talk to if something goes wrong. Once the battery set was balanced, I used the same settings as them.

Being a prolific postwhore on this site, I would put money down on DALY being the least reliable. Multiple folks with multiple BMS in a system reporting multiple failures.

@Checkthisout is a datapoint in my impression of DALY.

 

[onrbikes]

So far they reach 3.4v every day.
The Daly sits there a while and the induvidual cells jump around a bit. All within .03v
The victron maintains charge and the Daly reduces current down to 2-5amps..
What I don't like is the lack of history on the Daly.
I see everything on the Victron

 

[sunshine_eggo]

So far they reach 3.4v every day.

They technically need to exceed this, and if you're getting to 28.2V, you should be seeing 3.525.

The Daly sits there a while and the induvidual cells jump around a bit. All within .03v
The victron maintains charge and the Daly reduces current down to 2-5amps..

How does the DALY do this? They have no means of current regulation. They are simply an on/off switch engaged when something goes out of limits.

They work like this:

Voltage too high? Charge off.
Voltage too low? Discharge off.
Current too high? Charge and/or discharge off.
Temperature too high? Charge and/or discharge off.
Temperature too low? Charge and/or discharge off.

At no point do they say, "okay, we're almost full, we're only going to let in 2-5 Amps."

The current drops because that's all the cells will accept at that voltage.

What I don't like is the lack of history on the Daly.
I see everything on the Victron

THE LUSCIOUS TROOF!

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

THE LUSCIOUS TROOF!

Bro you are a hoot!

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I am using DALY at the moment, but they definitely have their quirks.

My magnum BMK, nor my bogart trimetric ever agreed with the DAlY units. But then they did not agree with each other either. (this is indicative of a setting issue) both the magnum and the Bogart are well engineered gear, but not having them set correctly can confuses a person.

The DALY does not do well with low currents, it was designed for small EV's like golf carts, scooters etc. its software architecture reflects this. hammer it and it works well low current draws, and low current charging it completely ignores. you can go into its settings with a PC and make some changes that will help, but it brings up other issues as a result.

I just ordered a new BMS called a 100 balance, and its made by DALY but it is quite different physically. the huge robust heat sink is gone for a smaller lighter one (cheaper as well). (that's leftover design cues for a unit that has high amp draws and needs a large heat sink as a result).

Andy @ offgrid garage tried one and it gave him fits in regards to the balancing software. i forwarded his video to the company and asked them basically WTF Over? and they claimed to have made a software upgrade to address those concerns as they had already seen the video. We shall see i guess. if they corrected the issues then even though it only has one amp active balancing that is more than enough for good cells.

 

[onrbikes]

They technically need to exceed this, and if you're getting to 28.2V, you should be seeing 3.525.



How does the DALY do this? They have no means of current regulation. They are simply an on/off switch engaged when something goes out of limits.

They work like this:

Voltage too high? Charge off.
Voltage too low? Discharge off.
Current too high? Charge and/or discharge off.
Temperature too high? Charge and/or discharge off.
Temperature too low? Charge and/or discharge off.

At no point do they say, "okay, we're almost full, we're only going to let in 2-5 Amps."

The current drops because that's all the cells will accept at that voltage.



THE LUSCIOUS TROOF!

I've just reset the Daly to 3.58v.
Interesting
Seemed to take and extra 10 minutes to get there.
Batteries seemed to balance a bit better too

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I've just reset the Daly to 3.58v.
Interesting
Seemed to take and extra 10 minutes to get there.
Batteries seemed to balance a bit better too

Is that the protection voltage?

If so, I see no value in moving the protection voltages any closer than the cell specifications, i.e., 2.5V low and 3.65V high. Set your BMS to those limits and program your hardware to operate INSIDE those limits. Placing greater restriction on the cut off voltages means you may be using the BMS for routine charge/discharge termination, which can be a recipe for BMS failure.