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stupid circuit breaker question

jabbles

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I want to put a circuit breaker on my inverter output to trip the power at 1000W load and also so that I can use it as an on/off switch

1000W @ 220V -> 5A

So I go find a 5A AC circuit breaker, doesn't need massive kA rating since its not for short-circuit protection

But then I read about the "curve type" of circuit breakers

B Curve means the MCB trips between 3-5 times full load current. It is mainly used in residential applications where loads are resistive e.g. lighting fixtures, domestic appliances with low surge Levels.

C Curve means the MCB trips between 5-10 times full load current. It is used in commercial/industrial applications where there is greater chances of higher short circuit currents e.g. mainly inductive loads , fluorescent lighting.

D Curve means the MCB trips between 10-14 times full load current. It is used where inrush currents can be very high e.g. motors, X-ray machines.

Does this mean a 5A circuit breaker doesn't actually trip when the current hits 5A?
 
Does this mean a 5A circuit breaker doesn't actually trip when the current hits 5A?
It will trip if it stays at 5a for a period of time. The way many breakers and overloads work is based on heat making a catch-latch inside soften up or bend releasing the breaker to open up once they're hot. It's not usually instant, but not more than a couple seconds depending on how high over the rating you go and how warm that release goes.
 
Does this mean a 5A circuit breaker doesn't actually trip when the current hits 5A?
Correct, most (all?) breakers have an asymmetrical trip curve. That means that the higher the amps they see the quicker they will trip. It's about managing overcurrent vs short circuit.

In the below "B curve" that I just found it shows that it will take 20 seconds at 2x's it's rating to trip and 200 seconds to at 1.5x's. (someone please correct me if I'm getting that wrong)

You can use it as on/off switch as long as it's rated for that (not all breakers are rated to be used as switches) but I don't think you're going to be able to use a standard breaker to turn off at a certain wattage. Hopefully others will chime in there.


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Those inverse time delay curves are replicated with electronics i modern breaker trip units

That’s how you coordinate trip tomes so the closest over current device to the problem load will trip without disturbing the rest of the power system

This is a really old relay but if watch and listen the speaker will explain the way it does an inverse time delay, and how it’s adjusted and tuned to the coordinate with other breakers
Very small breaker like the types used on residential wiring can’t be adjusted
But the characteristics of
Breakers and fuses cam be selected based on the manufacturer’s data sheets to help you chose the correct ones for your applications

 
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So if I don't want a 220V circuit to pull more than 1000W for, lets say <5s, you cant achieve that with a circuit breaker?
It's not a safety concern (inverter can actually push 1200W) so a fuse would just be an annoyance.
 
Maybe you could use an AC adjustable current switch. The one I have is rated for 0-30 amps passing through the donut hole. The switch itself only is good for 0.5 amps at 240 volts so a contactor is necessary. There may be NO or NC contact models. Cost about $15 years ago. Maybe from Amazon or Ebay.
 
You also need to figure if any of your load will have surge current and how long the surge period so it will not trip the circuit breaker, that is why there is delay time on the circuit breaker, if the breaker is too sensitive, I.E. your compressor may have surge 3 time the running current and the surge last 250msec, then you need to choose the correct rating for that load, that is why there are so many trip curve for circuit breaker. 5A breaker means it can allow 5A of current without tripping at 25c.
 
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So if I don't want a 220V circuit to pull more than 1000W for, lets say <5s, you cant achieve that with a circuit breaker?
It's not a safety concern (inverter can actually push 1200W) so a fuse would just be an annoyance.
The inverter will self protect. Breaker or shut-down is the same effect. Reduce the load and cycle the power switch.
Breaker is to protect the wire. As long as the wire is good for the full 1200 watts the breaker is redundant. Just a switch.
 
So if I don't want a 220V circuit to pull more than 1000W for, lets say <5s, you cant achieve that with a circuit breaker?
It's not a safety concern (inverter can actually push 1200W) so a fuse would just be an annoyance.
May I ask why you want to do this? I think we might be able to help you if we knew more about what you're trying to do.

As far as I know, you can't do it with a simple breaker alone.

Relays, contactors and remotely controlled breakers are used as part of a complete load shedding systems.
 
your compressor may have surge 3 time
That’s around the low end
It could be any place between 3 and 6 times
That universal for most motors ( general purpose B type )
there are exceptions D type fire pump motors never have a big inrush you don’t want strip in a burning building and you want it to start as long as the wiring is not on fire

Self powered current sensing relay
These work I use them a lot for many things like confirming a pump is running and at full load

These are pretty common on things like larger forced air electric heaters 5k or so
This will do what you want with the ct if your looking at making some sort of simple one step load shed system

 
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How you end up developing a load shed system is up to you

This is a LOGO
There are some as cheap a 60 bucks if you shop around

I used these 20 years ago to do simple jobs that in the old days would have required a lot of relays and wires and devices that in todays money would cost maybe a thousand bucks in parts even before you factor the time to wire and test

So a logo is programmed in ladder or Boolean logic
You could use a pc and software linked by cables or key in the commands by hand from the face plate

Now you can probably use your phone blue tooth and who knows what else

It’s probably the most cost effective way to do this but you will need to learn the software
Original logo booklets shipped had no words just picto-graphs like a Lego block kit

There are other brands and Chinese knock offs if you want to research this
The advantage to build your own controls is once you know how it works
You can fix mod things on the spot


Some old stuff
I remember wiring these 800 series when they were state and of the art
They had very hard to use software and primitive processors

Then came the quantum with a pentium class processor.

Now you have unity
Distributed processing and data collection blaw blaw
Pieces of plastic Chinese shit

Out there somewhere right now an old 800 series is chugging along covered in filth in a place you would not to be just doing it thing running something
Gold plated contacts solidly built rack and parts

Show me a unity level automation package in 40 ( if I’m not dead that’s a stretch ) years still chugging a long….

Things change fast
 
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That’s another style of excellent relay because it can monitor a potential brown out not just the current itself
But that comes at a higher cost
 
This is a pretty good unit but it’s missing a removable memory chip
Those are not hard to get

Can be programs from key pad or pc with a cable

These were good units can’t remember to many that gave me trouble
But can’t be programmed for daylight savings time

I’d pick this over the Chinese thing if you want to experiment with simple logic and timers to set priority for loads

 
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