Sunny Island setup to delay battery charging from grid

[DougK]

Is there a way to have the SI delay charging the battery until a certain time of day, yet still supply loads on the A1 protected buss from the grid on A2?
In other words, I want to have the SI supply the load current to the protected A1 loads from the A2 Grid, but not charge the batteries until after a certain time of day even if the state of charge is low (20%).

 

[DougK]

I guess what I'm really asking is - How does 232-41, GdSocEn (Activate the grid request based on SOC), really work? How should 233-01 through 233-09 be set to accomplish the charge delay in my original question? Or is that not the purpose of GdSocEn function?

 

[DougK]

Surely someone on this forum must have some in-sight on Sunny Island setups. Or did I ask the question incorrectly?

 

[DougK]

Since this forum seems to truly be "Do It Yourself", I discovered the answer to my own question myself. Posted here to help others.

To delay charging the batteries, the SI GdSOCEn needs to be enabled and the GdTm* parameters need to be set appropriately.
So for example, if your want to supply the protected load (A1) from batteries between 5am and 8pm and charge your batteries from the grid (A2) only between 8pm and 5am, here would be the settings:
232-41 GdSocEn: Enabled
233-01 GdSocTm1Str: 95%
233-02 GdSocTm1Stp: 85%
233-03 GdSocTm2 Str: 5%
233-04 GdSocTm2 Stp: 15%
233-05 GdTm1Str: 05:00:00
233-06 GdTm2Str: 20:00:00

During the day (5am-8pm) SI will allow the batteries to discharge down to 5%. After the 5% SOC is reached, the SI will charge the batteries back up to 15% and stop charging until they fall back to 5%. Cycle repeats.
During the nite (8pm-5am) SI will charge the batteries all the way to 95% and stop charging until they fall back to 85%. Cycle repeats.

Note that if you want to use 5% as GdSocTm2, you also need to have batteries that will allow that deep of discharge (e.g. LFP) and also set your battery protection settings to allow that level of discharge. Especially 233-07 BatProt3Soc: should be set to < 5%, otherwise the SI will shut down to protect the batteries.

Of course, the rest of the SI setup needs to be set appropriately for your own configuration. Mine is without PV and grid charge only.
231.05 ExtSrc: Grid
232-08 GdMod: GridCharge
232-09 GdRvPwr: 0

Best of luck!

 

[1201]

Since this forum seems to truly be "Do It Yourself", I discovered the answer to my own question myself. Posted here to help others.

To delay charging the batteries, the SI GdSOCEn needs to be enabled and the GdTm* parameters need to be set appropriately.
So for example, if your want to supply the protected load (A1) from batteries between 5am and 8pm and charge your batteries from the grid (A2) only between 8pm and 5am, here would be the settings:
232-41 GdSocEn: Enabled
233-01 GdSocTm1Str: 95%
233-02 GdSocTm1Stp: 85%
233-03 GdSocTm2 Str: 5%
233-04 GdSocTm2 Stp: 15%
233-05 GdTm1Str: 05:00:00
233-06 GdTm2Str: 20:00:00

During the day (5am-8pm) SI will allow the batteries to discharge down to 5%. After the 5% SOC is reached, the SI will charge the batteries back up to 15% and stop charging until they fall back to 5%. Cycle repeats.
During the nite (8pm-5am) SI will charge the batteries all the way to 95% and stop charging until they fall back to 85%. Cycle repeats.

Note that if you want to use 5% as GdSocTm2, you also need to have batteries that will allow that deep of discharge (e.g. LFP) and also set your battery protection settings to allow that level of discharge. Especially 233-07 BatProt3Soc: should be set to < 5%, otherwise the SI will shut down to protect the batteries.

Of course, the rest of the SI setup needs to be set appropriately for your own configuration. Mine is without PV and grid charge only.
231.05 ExtSrc: Grid
232-08 GdMod: GridCharge
232-09 GdRvPwr: 0

Best of luck!

Thank you for posting this

 

[Samste]

Since this forum seems to truly be "Do It Yourself", I discovered the answer to my own question myself. Posted here to help others.

To delay charging the batteries, the SI GdSOCEn needs to be enabled and the GdTm* parameters need to be set appropriately.
So for example, if your want to supply the protected load (A1) from batteries between 5am and 8pm and charge your batteries from the grid (A2) only between 8pm and 5am, here would be the settings:
232-41 GdSocEn: Enabled
233-01 GdSocTm1Str: 95%
233-02 GdSocTm1Stp: 85%
233-03 GdSocTm2 Str: 5%
233-04 GdSocTm2 Stp: 15%
233-05 GdTm1Str: 05:00:00
233-06 GdTm2Str: 20:00:00

During the day (5am-8pm) SI will allow the batteries to discharge down to 5%. After the 5% SOC is reached, the SI will charge the batteries back up to 15% and stop charging until they fall back to 5%. Cycle repeats.
During the nite (8pm-5am) SI will charge the batteries all the way to 95% and stop charging until they fall back to 85%. Cycle repeats.

Note that if you want to use 5% as GdSocTm2, you also need to have batteries that will allow that deep of discharge (e.g. LFP) and also set your battery protection settings to allow that level of discharge. Especially 233-07 BatProt3Soc: should be set to < 5%, otherwise the SI will shut down to protect the batteries.

Of course, the rest of the SI setup needs to be set appropriately for your own configuration. Mine is without PV and grid charge only.
231.05 ExtSrc: Grid
232-08 GdMod: GridCharge
232-09 GdRvPwr: 0

Best of luck!

I understand this is an old Post how did you go ?

As i looking at doing something similar possibly

I have a sunny island in Si8.0 setup in battery back up with Grid Connection (which has solar on the grid connect side )
Installed this about few years ago and never had time to finish off setting it up it has saved me money but i know i could save a ton by configuring it up properly

A2 is my Grid connect Input which has my PV Solar input on that side as well so when i have too much solar during the day it just exports back to the grid otherwise it just goes through the SI and if it needs more than 4kw in high demand hours it takes from the batteries as the A2 max current set at 4kw as i have approx 10kw solar on the roof
A1 is my Load side of The Sunny Island that feeds my power to the house.
Im finding that i generate more pv than i use during the day but at night i wasting money as im using grid power and i have over 50kw of gel vrla batteries (25kw of safe discharge for maintaning healthy batteries).
So i wanting to work out the best alternative as this sounds ok what you mentioned above

Im looking at setting it up so when my solar input drops in the evening that the Grid A2 disconnects and then reconnects in the morning when my solar starts back up or if the batterys fall below 50% but only want to start charging the batteries when im generating more solar than im using otherwise im paying high cost to charge the batteries from the grid power not solar for free as my A2 grid input is set to 4kw

Maybe my other option is setting up the Solar PV on A1 load side and installl a PV contactor to disconnect Solar if the grid network goes down so not to feed back into the grid which is easy. But not sure of the programming parameters to set the Pv to feed back through A2 and paramters for a2 to kick in when batterie levels fall below 40% and when to shut off etc. I guess this would be the best setup. As i still want to export solar to the grid during the day and not have my solar inverters shut down when theres excess solar on A1 load side even though the energy provider gives little back, its better than nothing and helps offset the feed in cost a bit.

any advice welcomed or paramters settings i need to look at etc

 

[1201]

I understand this is an old Post how did you go ?

As i looking at doing something similar possibly

I have a sunny island in Si8.0 setup in battery back up with Grid Connection (which has solar on the grid connect side )
Installed this about few years ago and never had time to finish off setting it up it has saved me money but i know i could save a ton by configuring it up properly

A2 is my Grid connect Input which has my PV Solar input on that side as well so when i have too much solar during the day it just exports back to the grid otherwise it just goes through the SI and if it needs more than 4kw in high demand hours it takes from the batteries as the A2 max current set at 4kw as i have approx 10kw solar on the roof
A1 is my Load side of The Sunny Island that feeds my power to the house.
Im finding that i generate more pv than i use during the day but at night i wasting money as im using grid power and i have over 50kw of gel vrla batteries (25kw of safe discharge for maintaning healthy batteries).
So i wanting to work out the best alternative as this sounds ok what you mentioned above

Im looking at setting it up so when my solar input drops in the evening that the Grid A2 disconnects and then reconnects in the morning when my solar starts back up or if the batterys fall below 50% but only want to start charging the batteries when im generating more solar than im using otherwise im paying high cost to charge the batteries from the grid power not solar for free as my A2 grid input is set to 4kw

Maybe my other option is setting up the Solar PV on A1 load side and installl a PV contactor to disconnect Solar if the grid network goes down so not to feed back into the grid which is easy. But not sure of the programming parameters to set the Pv to feed back through A2 and paramters for a2 to kick in when batterie levels fall below 40% and when to shut off etc. I guess this would be the best setup. As i still want to export solar to the grid during the day and not have my solar inverters shut down when theres excess solar on A1 load side even though the energy provider gives little back, its better than nothing and helps offset the feed in cost a bit.

any advice welcomed or paramters settings i need to look at etc

I use my inverter the way you want to use yours. I sell back to the grid during the day and at night I use down my 57kwh battery.

I have to manually switch on and switch off the grid daily. I use a website to do it via wifi.

Pv is on the load side ac1
When the battery is full I change grid manual start to start , and start exporting.
After Sun goes down I change it back to auto and disconnect the grid and I'm on battery.

For grid as gen I have mine set to charge from battery if it goes down to 20%. This has basically never happened since I upped my battery bank size.

I also have it set to connect the grid if the load is above 9.5kw. this has happened once

 

[Samste]

I use my inverter the way you want to use yours. I sell back to the grid during the day and at night I use down my 57kwh battery.

I have to manually switch on and switch off the grid daily. I use a website to do it via wifi.

Pv is on the load side ac1
When the battery is full I change grid manual start to start , and start exporting.
After Sun goes down I change it back to auto and disconnect the grid and I'm on battery.

For grid as gen I have mine set to charge from battery if it goes down to 20%. This has basically never happened since I upped my battery bank size.

I also have it set to connect the grid if the load is above 9.5kw. this has happened once

you said you have your pv on the a1 load side correct ? my Pv is currently on the grid input A2 side so twhat are the parameters to export as you mention manual start to start ?
fyi i did try the manual off the a2 at evening the other day and turn a2 back on whenit was morning but straight away it took pwer form the grid to charge the batteries as there was not enough solar so it wasnt a real saving doing it unless the solar was more than the input of A2

 

[1201]

you said you have your pv on the a1 load side correct ? my Pv is currently on the grid input A2 side so twhat are the parameters to export as you mention manual start to start ?
fyi i did try the manual off the a2 at evening the other day and turn a2 back on whenit was morning but straight away it took pwer form the grid to charge the batteries as there was not enough solar so it wasnt a real saving doing it unless the solar was more than the input of A2

Gdmanstrt is either auto, off, or start.

When it's on start it will pull from grid and sell to grid
When it's on auto it will only pull it better gets low or demand gets too high.

On off it will never pull from grid

To export from ac1 I set gdmod to gridfeed

 

[Hedges]

Im finding that i generate more pv than i use during the day but at night i wasting money as im using grid power and i have over 50kw of gel vrla batteries (25kw of safe discharge for maintaning healthy batteries).

What is the cycle life of the batteries? The float life?

The AGM batteries I use are spec'd for 700 cycles to 70% DoD, which would be 2 years of daily cycling. They would cost $0.50/kWh of cycle life.
Float life is spec'd for 10 years.
I don't use them to time shift power drawn from grid because only $0.20 spread between on vs. off peak rates.
I save them for use when grid is down.

 

[Samste]

What is the cycle life of the batteries? The float life?

The AGM batteries I use are spec'd for 700 cycles to 70% DoD, which would be 2 years of daily cycling. They would cost $0.50/kWh of cycle life.
Float life is spec'd for 10 years.
I don't use them to time shift power drawn from grid because only $0.20 spread between on vs. off peak rates.
I save them for use when grid is down.

"I save them for use when grid is down." that was the reason for the initial setup i have, but im not utilising the batteries at all so was thinking of at least running them for some period at night. specs below -
Im running 4 rows of 24 x 2 volt 330ah/5h sealed gel battery with float voltage 2.25-2.29vpc preferd float of 2.275vpc
Battery life suggested is 80% of normal and is suggested a daily discharge not exceeding 20% of its c120 Rate and it should exceed 10 years plus also it suggest that when it gets to its 80% capacity that it will have a further 1 to 2 years

little confused when they say not exceeding 20% of its c120 rate ? ah capacity at c5 to 1.80 vpc is 330
as thiat seems quite low 20% i be looking at a consevative 50% then switching back to grid

 

[Samste]

Im hoping some feedback if that is ok please if some has knowlodge re below, really appreaciate it..

So im finally going to re config my Sma Sunny Ialand 8.0h parmeters using sunny remote control and just hoping any tips of things i need to be aware of when reconfig
my setup is in earlier posts above.

I have 3 pv on my grid side of sunny island ac2 and using currently as grid back up mode and wanting to change it to grid feed -

So the 1st thing i was going to do was install 1 pv inverter that does 5000w to ac1 load side of my Inverter this array gets the sun early in the morning.
The pv supply will be going through a grid side (ac2) contactor then to ac1 , load side ( so if grid network goes down the contactor opens and the solar array shuts down stopping it feeding back to grid network via A1)

Parameters i need to change for this pv to feed back to grid on ac1 side i assuming i need to change

232.09 GMod need to change from GridCharge to GridFeed
232.10 GdRvPwr need to change to 5000w ( as this is maximun export from ac1 through ac2 if im correct)
232.11 GdRvTm i probably could change to 60 secs though that pv array i dont think has ever pushed more than 4500w
giving that 60 sec time frame or not ? possibly need to check if my pv inverter has a set current export that i
can make sure it does not exceed 5000w limit of sunny island

should i have 232.60 set to asymmetric as im running only single sunny island on 1 phase and the inverter is 1 phase default is symmetric

i have never set threshholds on on 233.01 settings for GDSocEN as id like to possibly set up 9pm to 9am sunny island to run off batteries
and see how that goes for starters so the parameters i need to set here i learning any help would be great
theres probably a whole heap of other parameters io need to look at i'm guessing, if anyone can steer me in the right direction, thxs

 

[Hedges]

I don't think there is a reason to set GdRvPwr limit on reverse power to 5000W. I would set it to more like 80% of what the breaker allows.
Your SB might deliver its full wattage, and with measurement error that might trip the limit.

Oh, 5000W might be the maximum for that parameter. I don't find it in the 8.0H document I looked in, but for my SI 6048US, 5000W is the maximum. However, SI in the US can backfeed 6700W at 120V.

I think GdRvPwr only applies when backfeed is not enabled. Changing it may not matter when GridFeed is enabled.

I think SI 8.0H is allowed up to 11,500W of SB, so after getting this working you could put 2 SB on AC1, if more power desired in grid-backup operation.

 

[Samste]

I don't think there is a reason to set GdRvPwr limit on reverse power to 5000W. I would set it to more like 80% of what the breaker allows.
Your SB might deliver its full wattage, and with measurement error that might trip the limit.

Oh, 5000W might be the maximum for that parameter. I don't find it in the 8.0H document I looked in, but for my SI 6048US, 5000W is the maximum. However, SI in the US can backfeed 6700W at 120V.

I think GdRvPwr only applies when backfeed is not enabled. Changing it may not matter when GridFeed is enabled.

I think SI 8.0H is allowed up to 11,500W of SB, so after getting this working you could put 2 SB on AC1, if more power desired in grid-backup operation.

Thaxs for the reply,
I was actually thinking myself what you mentioned "I think GdRvPwr only applies when backfeed is not enabled. Changing it may not matter when GridFeed is enabled."


Attached operaters manual for the sunny island 8.0h

 

[Hedges]

"1 Sunny Island or
single-cluster
system"

Interesting, seems to be up to 5000W per cluster, regardless of how many SI in the cluster.

 

[Samste]

"1 Sunny Island or
single-cluster
system"

Interesting, seems to be up to 5000W per cluster, regardless of how many SI in the cluster.

Was trying to find actual written technical specs on pv backfeed max through ac2 to grid the attached file states max pv on ac1 is 12000w but the problem here is my pv wont shut down when and will backfeed to grid so i need to confirm max wattage i can push out, thtas why i was only going to do 1 pv inverter on ac1 to start off with

 

[1201]

Was trying to find actual written technical specs on pv backfeed max through ac2 to grid the attached file states max pv on ac1 is 12000w but the problem here is my pv wont shut down when and will backfeed to grid so i need to confirm max wattage i can push out, thtas why i was only going to do 1 pv inverter on ac1 to start off with

I'm trying to understand what problem you are trying to solve.

You want to export to the grid, correct? And you want to know how to do that and the max you can export? Do I have this right?

 

[Hedges]

12kW is about right for 220V and the internal relay.
That makes a nice fit for Si and SB, 6kW SI can manage 12kW SB and handle its export.

The US model is 120V, same relay, so we're limited to 6.7kW (per SI) due to 56A max through relay. But offgrid, it can manage 12kW SB per SI.

The European model optionally uses external 200A relay. US doesn't have that feature, which is probably just a firmware difference (command external relay, don't close internal one.)

thtas why i was only going to do 1 pv inverter on ac1 to start off with

Always good to test things cautiously. 12kW should be fine, can do that once you get it working with single SB.

My previous plan (when I was only going to use one SI + autotransformer) was 5kW SB always on AC1, other 5kW SB switched over when offgrid.
I've since realized manual says switching must have 5 second "off" time, so the rotary switch I was going to use might have blown something up. Manual interlocked breakers is good to slow down switching.

Know about load shed? (to avoid discharging battery to point of shut down.)

 

[Samste]

Know about load shed? (to avoid discharging battery to point of shut down.)

I dont have that much load on the sunny island as i have several loads off the sunnny island its Mainly power and lights
and a two small a/c units combined only draw 2400w

my heavy loads are grid side not on A1
1- Grid side Hot water running through green catch so it uses solar and off peak to heat tank (99% solar)
2- Grid side Oven and Cooktop
3- Grid side 3 phase ducted a/c

I could throw a load shed contactor and run the small a/c units through if need be,
But i was hoping to just set parameters for the in GdSOCEn 233.01 and enable it ? As this is how i found this thread in the first Place
Battery State of Charge parameters to kick in A2 when low

thxs

 

[Hedges]

2400W A/C could of course drain battery, then you have to deal with black start.
A central A/C would have thermostat wire you could switch with SPDT relays inside SI.
Small AC, need to switch full power, so consider controlling a power relay for that.

I bought the contactor SMA rebrands and for now shed the entire house. Only SB remains powered.

Connecting Load-Shedding Contactors

manuals.sma.de