Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?

[wattmatters]

You can do a bit better than that at times too. I picked up a spare 5kva MP2 last month for just under $1500AUD with a discount code on eBay. That puts it only $3-400AUD pricier than the cheap chinese HF AIOs like growatt

The MP II do not have solar charge controllers like the AIOs do, so add those and the extra cabling/connections to the price. If you are in the smaller system side, and have the space for the extra components then you can probably do OK with Victron kit. But once the power demand goes up, the price goes ballistic.

To replace my 8kW AIO I would need the 8kVA MP II plus a separate higher voltage charge controller (in fact I'd probably need the 10 kVA MP II model as the temperature power derating of the Victron inverters is so harsh for Australian conditions). That's ~$4k plus $2k for the higher voltage charge controller and extras for hooking it up. I'm looking at $6k+ and I don't have the space for it.

An 8 kW Voltronic AIO for under $1.9k.
Or a Growatt 12 kW for $2.7k.
Or a Deye 8 kW for under $3.8k. The Deye is CEC approved and IP65 rated.
All these can work with Solar Assistant / Home Assistant for amazing monitoring/controllability/flexibility.

 

[Jacob89]

The MP II do not have solar charge controllers like the AIOs do,

I am aware but it really doesn't matter to me, the LF design and the ability to AC couple to grid tie inverters is much more valuable to me. I have two victron 150/35 mppts in my system, but the bulk of my charge comes from two AC coupled grid tie inverters, one of which cost me $10 at the scrap yard, and the other came in a pair that paid $40 for on FB market place. I could and should be using just the first one, as it could handle both strings just fine, but one of the MC4 inputs is busted and I haven't got around to fixing it yet.

I admit I was tempted by the AIOs when victron was more expensive. But some of the prices you're quoting don't make sense to me. At $3.8k for an 8kw Deye, I'd rather have two(at the price I just paid) 5kva MP II's setup in parallel, and the $800 I saved would go a long way towards setting up some 2nd hand grid ties as well as a DC controller or two. Plus you have the redundancy benefit with two inverters. And from what I can tell from a quick search, the pair of victrons would have less standby draw than the deye.

I don't want to sound like too much a fan boy though. I have sort of a love/hate relationship with Victron. The inverters certainly aren't built any heavier than they need to be, although apparently that's a feature, being that victron started out making stuff for boats. And I'm disgusted with the way they fill their charge controllers with horrible blue resin so that its extremely difficult or impossible to take them apart for repair. I've had three die and successfully repaired one, although I had to do unspeakable things to it with a grinder to get into it. The latest one to die, I don't think I'll bother trying to fix it, it has given about 5 years charging the second battery in my vehicle and its only a little 75/15, and new ones can be had for just over $60 now.

I do have a small 3kw MPPsolar AIO I've been playing with for a lightweight portable set up. Its not a complete disappointment but it certainly hasn't blown me away in any respect.

 

[Jacob89]

I think Europe had buy two get third one free and crazy stuff like that. I would put the spare into operation.

We had that deal too, at the end of last year, and I almost jumped on it, but couldn't justify spending $4500 AUD on three inverters I didn't really need. It was really tempting though, I could have been making my own three phase power cheaper than it would cost me to have a three phase connection from the grid.

 

[wattmatters]

I am aware but it really doesn't matter to me, the LF design and the ability to AC couple to grid tie inverters is much more valuable to me. I have two victron 150/35 mppts in my system, but the bulk of my charge comes from two AC coupled grid tie inverters, one of which cost me $10 at the scrap yard, and the other came in a pair that paid $40 for on FB market place. I could and should be using just the first one, as it could handle both strings just fine, but one of the MC4 inputs is busted and I haven't got around to fixing it yet.

Yeah, that's a different type of configuration, not suitable for most AIOs which don't do AC couple. I think the Deye does though.

Done well getting it all together for little $.

I admit I was tempted by the AIOs when victron was more expensive. But some of the prices you're quoting don't make sense to me. At $3.8k for an 8kw Deye, I'd rather have two(at the price I just paid) 5kva MP II's setup in parallel,

You obviously have a lot more room than me. I really only have enough space for one off-grid unit, so it needs to do it all. No way to fit 2 x MP II

If it weren't for the price I'd be tempted by the 12kW 3-phase Deye as my home is 3-phase and I'm running most of it through a single phase AIO, but the price is insane at $6k. The Deye can support an unbalanced load, up to 6 kW/phase.

 

[robot_zombie]

yes the deye units do look good from the AIO perspective. that system I setup already had a 250/100 MPPT for one of the panel sets, so going victron for the rest did make sense... combined with the remote config which is really good...
as an aside, I found it hard to find good price mega fuses for the lynx with >48V rating, these fuses from element 14 have much nicer pricing than the victron 48V rated ones

https://au.element14.com/multicomp-pro/mp011373/automotive-fuse-100a-70v-dc/dp/4155496?ICID=I-HP-STM7REC-RP-3

 

[Jacob89]

You obviously have a lot more room than me. I really only have enough space for one off-grid unit, so it needs to do it all. No way to fit 2 x MP II

Yeah I get that. I would have to make big changes to fit a 2nd MPII in my current set up. I am planning to relocate the whole show some point in the future to allow for that.
The nice thing about AC coupling though is that your grid tie inverter/s can essentially be anywhere, so they don't have to take up space where your off grid inverter lives. And I like AC better for long runs. You can run much higher voltages with DC, but long runs of HV DC gives me the willies.

 

[wattmatters]

The nice thing about AC coupling though is that your grid tie inverter/s can essentially be anywhere, so they don't have to take up space where your off grid inverter lives.

Are we permitted to use Victron in a grid tied set up? I thought they were for off-grid only.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Are we permitted to use Victron in a grid tied set up? I thought they were for off-grid only.

Victron is used extensively in the EU in grid tied and ESS systems.

Many options for AU grid connections:

 

[Jacob89]

Are we permitted to use Victron in a grid tied set up? I thought they were for off-grid only.

I'm not sure. I don't care really as I'm offgrid

 

[wattmatters]

I'm not sure. I don't care really as I'm offgrid

Ah, I read "grid-tied inverters" as meaning they were actually grid-tied. Rather you are using them off-grid, AC coupled and controlled by the Victron system.

Victron is used extensively in the EU in grid tied and ESS systems.

It's not a matter of whether they are capable, it's a matter of certification for such application in Australia. If they are not certified, then they cannot be grid-tied.

But as Jacob says, his system is all off-grid so it's a moot point.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Ah, I read "grid-tied inverters" as meaning they were actually grid-tied. Rather you are using them off-grid, AC coupled and controlled by the Victron system.


It's not a matter of whether they are capable, it's a matter of certification for such application in Australia. If they are not certified, then they cannot be grid-tied.

But as Jacob says, his system is all off-grid so it's a moot point.

Given that they list multiple grid tie standards for AU, I would assume that they are certified. They do NOT list anything for the US, and they are not UL1741SA.

FWIW, in an off-grid installation, they are regularly AC coupled with GT inverters for extra oomph. There is an assistant that you can program the frequencies for control of the GT inverter. In retrospect I suspect that's what Jacob referenced.

 

[wattmatters]

I would assume that they are certified.

I would not make that assumption. They need to be on the CEC list as approved for grid-tied use in Australia.

Approved Inverters | Clean Energy Council

Browse the Clean Energy Council's list of compliant inverters and power conversion equipment (PCE) suitable for installation under the Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme (SRES). Inverters with Software Communication Clients The Inverters with Software Communication Clients list includes…

www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au

The MP II is not.

It's only approved as a standalone inverter with generator input / battery. The most recent approval was granted in November 2023. These are the only Victron inverters listed by the CEC.

 

[wattmatters]

FWIW, in an off-grid installation, they are regularly AC coupled with GT inverters for extra oomph.

Yes, I'm aware of that, thanks. I've seen them used in such configurations, often with a Fronius inverter.

 

[Brucey]

Got the smartshunt installed. Having soc percentage is nice I've been going by voltage which has a lot of variation.

 

[Brucey]

Added four 100W newpowers from Amazon and two renogy 115 bifacials to the second tracker, good for around 550W additional. Couple of the Newpower mc4s really didn't want to click into position not sure if that will fire up later.

 

[Zwy]

I would have expected this to be more blue in color and shiny.



It's for my work trailer, just a small 12V system to run a few things.

On a side note, Dexter (Current Connected) is the man. I bought a few things from him lately and he ships out right away and it arrives quickly. Pretty amazing service, I am impressed. And it takes alot to impress me after being in business myself for 37 years.

 

[featherlite]

Newpower mc4s really didn't want to click into position not sure if that will fire up later.

I presume you meant "Newpowa". If so, I found this to be the case for me also.
The Newpowa MC4 connectors fit loose when I connected the Newpowa MC4 connectors to all my other non Newpowa brand panels and also when connected to other non Newpowa MC4 connectors I crimped up myself.

 

[Brucey]

I presume you meant "Newpowa". If so, I found this to be the case for me also.
The Newpowa MC4 connectors fit loose when I connected the Newpowa MC4 connectors to all my other non Newpowa brand panels and also when connected to other non Newpowa MC4 connectors I crimped up myself.

Good to know thanks. Next batch will be some ecoworthys.

 

[JoeHam]

Good to know thanks. Next batch will be some ecoworthys.

If you like their output it is a simple matter to chop off the newpowa MC4 and install your own.

 

[Ron-ski]

To replace my 8kW AIO I would need the 8kVA MP II plus a separate higher voltage charge controller (in fact I'd probably need the 10 kVA MP II model as the temperature power derating of the Victron inverters is so harsh for Australian conditions).

Actually you likely need bigger (unless you've de-rated your AIO), the 8000 kVA is 6.4 kW and 10 kVA is only 8 kW, lots of people often make that mistake, kVA is not the same as kW.