Victron to ? For RV

[Kcmusa]

I currently have all victron gear , the multiple plus 120x2 at 300va does not cut at times. I need a bit more. Thinking about 3K per side. I like the assist functionality and ability to limit input when in a 20 amp current.
Don’t want dual inverters as it has its own set of issues when going from 50 amp to 30 amp.
What’s out there as a recommendation?

 

[justinm001]

There are zero issues with having 2 Victron inverters over 1. Maybe with the 2x120 because Idk if you can split phase them

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I currently have all victron gear , the multiple plus 120x2 at 300va does not cut at times. I need a bit more. Thinking about 3K per side. I like the assist functionality and ability to limit input when in a 20 amp current.
Don’t want dual inverters as it has its own set of issues when going from 50 amp to 30 amp.

How do you figure? A second 2x120 in parallel with the first would have no issues. Properly configured, 2X non 2x120 MP working in split phase can be configured to have zero issues with switching shore source.

What’s out there as a recommendation?

Don't downgrade.

 

[paul65k]

There are zero issues with having 2 Victron inverters over 1. Maybe with the 2x120 because Idk if you can split phase them

Yes you can program the 2x120 for split-phase, but if you haven’t bought the inverters yet you can just as well go with the original multiplus

 

[pollenface]

What are the issues with running dual inverters?

 

[justinm001]

What are the issues with running dual inverters?

Price and additional wiring. You do have double the chance of failure and would need to reprogram to use just 1. But can't think of an actual issue

 

[pollenface]

Price and additional wiring. You do have double the chance of failure and would need to reprogram to use just 1. But can't think of an actual issue

Double chance of failure? That's very pessimistic

 

[justinm001]

Double chance of failure? That's very pessimistic

Its actually more than a double chance. requiring 2 devices instead of 1 that communicate together actually have more than a triple chance of failure because you're adding an additional component.

Think of a phone and a charger if your phone isn't charging it could be the phone or it could be the charger, or it could be the connection between the two (the cable). Adding multiple devices increases the chances of failure exponentially.

This is completely opposite of a N+1 scenario where both inverters work separately and thus if 1 goes down the other would still work properly.

I know a split phase setup is like the phone, not sure if Victron parallel inverters is the same or N+1. I know parallel MPPTs or DC-DC converters are N+1. In split phase they require constant communication with each other, if the network cable breaks for some reason both go offline. I'm not sure if this is the case with parallel.

I deal with a lot of disaster recovery and proper planning for business equipment so risk analysis is a large part of it

 

[Checkthisout]

I currently have all victron gear , the multiple plus 120x2 at 300va does not cut at times. I need a bit more. Thinking about 3K per side. I like the assist functionality and ability to limit input when in a 20 amp current.
Don’t want dual inverters as it has its own set of issues when going from 50 amp to 30 amp.
What’s out there as a recommendation?

Just another of the same inverter to feed the other leg. Saves money vs getting all new stuff.

Easy peasy.

I assume you have 50 amp RV. Right now you're feeding it with about 1/4 of what it's rated for.

Most of the 50 AMP RV setups run 2 5000 watt quattros, if money is no issue!

 

[BlindBadger]

For mobile stuff, Victron has really done a lot with boating and RV and is why they're so trusted. They're not flawless by far, but they've definitely withstood a lot of testing in the mobile and boating community and come out on top for a reason.

Needing more than 3kva ongoing is going to have a few repercussions, depending on what you already have.

If you are using a 12v battery, you'll need some BIG cables to handle any surges (2x120 MP-II has a surge capacity of 5500w for like 30 seconds...or 458-ish amps). 24v battery would help alleviate this for amperage concerns (down to just under 230 amps). Cables might be ok, but I like to oversize for safety there.

If 3kva isn't enough, you don't have any 240v loads, and you have the space anyways, you could look at one of the larger quattros (though you might need some other transformer ahead of it to combine the 2 legs on the 50a plug).

Honestly, a second matching inverter to the one you have might be the simplest path forward (and one that is well explored so you aren't paving new roads). It's pretty common for people who are running larger RVs that want to run multiple AC units and other high powered devices.

If you're ok with HF inverters, I've talked to a couple people have run off-grid or hybrid inverters (EG4 stuff and Growatt) but I have no idea of longevity/durability in a mobile application with all the vibrations and movement.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I am the proud owner of two 48/5kVA Quattros in a split phase off-grid installation. I got the Quattros because they were the only 48V/5kVA 120V option at the time.

If I had to do it over again, I would go with 2X MP-II 48/5kVA.

I would choose an external ATS over the substantial price increase between a MP-II and a Quattro unless I desperately needed dual AC input for a very compelling reason. My imagination fails me that this condition exists.

Again, IMHO, the shortest path to happiness is a second identical Victron inverter either wired in single phase parallel or split phase.

 

[pollenface]

This is completely opposite of a N+1 scenario where both inverters work separately and thus if 1 goes down the other would still work properly.

I know a split phase setup is like the phone, not sure if Victron parallel inverters is the same or N+1. I know parallel MPPTs or DC-DC converters are N+1. In split phase they require constant communication with each other, if the network cable breaks for some reason both go offline. I'm not sure if this is the case with parallel.

I deal with a lot of disaster recovery and proper planning for business equipment so risk analysis is a large part of it

Ah makes sense when you put it like that

 

[HarryN]

I have a Victron 5000 / 48 quatro for sale in the adv area if that is interesting.

 

[Dooug]

I would choose an external ATS over the substantial price increase between a MP-II and a Quattro unless I desperately needed dual AC input for a very compelling reason. My imagination fails me that this condition exists.

Hear me out, new to the AC side of stuff but have been pouring over grounding/bonding threads...without a conclusive answer.

I just installed a mulitplus in a truck camper and the RV AC panel is unbonded (as it should be). The multiplus is set to use the ground relay when inverting, but not when AC in is detected (because the shore source is bond point). Peace of cake, thought i was done there until i continued following the bonding threads.

If I plug a portable generator into the AC in, it leaves my entire system unbounded. Could the second AC input on the quattro operate the ground relay and give a bond? Or should the bond be present at the portable generator? Is there an appropriate transfer switch that can provide the bond for cheaper than purchasing a quattro vs multiplus (i am not upgrading my inverter anytime soon)

Current plan is to just build a bond plug for the generator, but i prefer these things to be more foolproof as i am not the only user. This may only be an issue for smaller RVs that do not have built in generators. I would expect the built in generators to deal with the bonding issue internally or in the transfer switch.

Was considering a blues seas rotary switch and bonding the generator input side of the switch at the switch. So shore would pass unbonded to the mulitplus and flipping to generator would be bonded.

Could I control the ground relay in the multiplus with an external switch via cerbo or multiplus relay? (still not a foolproof design)


Woo, hope that made sense...

 

[justinm001]

Hear me out, new to the AC side of stuff but have been pouring over grounding/bonding threads...without a conclusive answer.

I just installed a mulitplus in a truck camper and the RV AC panel is unbonded (as it should be). The multiplus is set to use the ground relay when inverting, but not when AC in is detected (because the shore source is bond point). Peace of cake, thought i was done there until i continued following the bonding threads.

If I plug a portable generator into the AC in, it leaves my entire system unbounded. Could the second AC input on the quattro operate the ground relay and give a bond? Or should the bond be present at the portable generator? Is there an appropriate transfer switch that can provide the bond for cheaper than purchasing a quattro vs multiplus (i am not upgrading my inverter anytime soon)

Current plan is to just build a bond plug for the generator, but i prefer these things to be more foolproof as i am not the only user. This may only be an issue for smaller RVs that do not have built in generators. I would expect the built in generators to deal with the bonding issue internally or in the transfer switch.

Was considering a blues seas rotary switch and bonding the generator input side of the switch at the switch. So shore would pass unbonded to the mulitplus and flipping to generator would be bonded.

Could I control the ground relay in the multiplus with an external switch via cerbo or multiplus relay? (still not a foolproof design)


Woo, hope that made sense...

Not sure about the grounding but I think the Quattro is well worth the cost over ATS if you have an internal generator. I ripped out my ATS.

It allows me to setup separate input limits and monitor the consumption of generator vs shore. Also it monitors if generators been turned on recently or not.

 

[corn18]

99.9% of the population that use an external genset with an RV do not have a bonded neutral. Not sure that makes it right. I have an internal EMS on my shore power input that will not allow a floating ground. You could consider that to safeguard the system. I have a Watchdog built in EMS. Progressive Power makes a good one as well.

When I plug in my genset, I have to also put a bonding plug into the 120V genset plug to get the EMS to pass the power on to the RV.

 

[Dooug]

99.9% of the population that use an external genset with an RV do not have a bonded neutral. Not sure that makes it right. I have an internal EMS on my shore power input that will not allow a floating ground. You could consider that to safeguard the system. I have a Watchdog built in EMS. Progressive Power makes a good one as well.

When I plug in my genset, I have to also put a bonding plug into the 120V genset plug to get the EMS to pass the power on to the RV.

I never thought anything off it and have used portable generators for RVs for years...no issues. It wasnt until i set up the mulitplus that i started to think about it.

 

[corn18]

I never thought anything off it and have used portable generators for RVs for years...no issues. It wasnt until i set up the mulitplus that i started to think about it.

I love my EMS. I know it has saved my RV power system from getting fried at least once, maybe twice.

 

[Partimewages]

Not sure about the grounding but I think the Quattro is well worth the cost over ATS if you have an internal generator. I ripped out my ATS.

It allows me to setup separate input limits and monitor the consumption of generator vs shore. Also it monitors if generators been turned on recently or not.

Do you have a wiring diagram for your system?

 

[corn18]

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