Victron to ? For RV

[justinm001]

Do you have a wiring diagram for your system?

Nope, it's been on my list. Maybe I'll build one tomorrow.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

If I plug a portable generator into the AC in, it leaves my entire system unbounded.

This is common. I've thought about the problem, but I don't have a solution or know what people do. I'm just aware of it and know that there is increased risk when running a generator. I think there are different solutions in different situations. I think it's also why it's most common that ~6000W ONAN generators on 50A RVs have two in-phase 120V outputs rather than outputting split phase... to keep the potential between Hot and ground at < 120V, or they may be bonded. I've never checked.

Could the second AC input on the quattro operate the ground relay and give a bond?

No.

Only one AC input is active at a time.

Or should the bond be present at the portable generator? Is there an appropriate transfer switch that can provide the bond for cheaper than purchasing a quattro vs multiplus (i am not upgrading my inverter anytime soon)

You could conceivably add one.

Current plan is to just build a bond plug for the generator, but i prefer these things to be more foolproof as i am not the only user. This may only be an issue for smaller RVs that do not have built in generators.

It's a problem for me on our off grid property as my generator is an unbonded portable one...

I would expect the built in generators to deal with the bonding issue internally or in the transfer switch.

That would make sense.

Was considering a blues seas rotary switch and bonding the generator input side of the switch at the switch. So shore would pass unbonded to the mulitplus and flipping to generator would be bonded.

I don't follow this.

Could I control the ground relay in the multiplus with an external switch via cerbo or multiplus relay? (still not a foolproof design)

This would require the installation of an assistant, and I find no assistants that can interact with the ground relay.

EDIT: worth a look:

Grounding question on trailer

Is this because the generator has a N-G bond? Hence not true when the generator isn’t bonded? My Honda EU3000iS does not have a bond… I have an RV transfer autoswtich and when in shorepower, the neutral ground bond is broken on a 2nd set of contacts. On generator power the neutral and ground...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Dooug]

-I understand that one input would be active at a time. the thought was input 1 would be shore power, no ground relay. input 2 for the generator with the ground relay active. only every using one input at a time

-The blue seas switch idea would be using this switch https://www.bluesea.com/products/9009/AC_Rotary_Switch_-_OFF_+_2_Positions_120V_AC_30A and bonding the generator side of the switch and selecting the appropriate source at the time.

- I also have an off grid place that uses a portable generator occasionally with the same challenge...but it is its own can of worms. I have lots of things to fix and improve in the wiring/inverter/grounding in that place. Do you have a multiplus or an inverter with ground relay that could function with the generator input? When my outback inverter dies or I go from 24 to 48v it will be replaced with a multiplus. Slowly converting to blue at the offgrid house.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

-I understand that one input would be active at a time. the thought was input 1 would be shore power, no ground relay. input 2 for the generator with the ground relay active. only every using one input at a time

The ground relay is cycled when any ac input is detected.

-The blue seas switch idea would be using this switch https://www.bluesea.com/products/9009/AC_Rotary_Switch_-_OFF_+_2_Positions_120V_AC_30A and bonding the generator side of the switch and selecting the appropriate source at the time.

I think i'm too tired to work through it.

- I also have an off grid place that uses a portable generator occasionally with the same challenge...but it is its own can of worms. I have lots of things to fix and improve in the wiring/inverter/grounding in that place. Do you have a multiplus or an inverter with ground relay that could function with the generator input? When my outback inverter dies or I go from 24 to 48v it will be replaced with a multiplus. Slowly converting to blue at the offgrid house.

I have dual 48/5kVA Quattros in split phase. If I had to do it over again... 2X MP-II 48/5kVA.

I will eventually have a traditional AC panel where I make the N-G bond, and I will disable the N-G bond in the L1 inverter altogether. L2 is set to always disabled even now.

 

[Brucey]

I am the proud owner of two 48/5kVA Quattros in a split phase off-grid installation. I got the Quattros because they were the only 48V/5kVA 120V option at the time.

If I had to do it over again, I would go with 2X MP-II 48/5kVA.

I would choose an external ATS over the substantial price increase between a MP-II and a Quattro unless I desperately needed dual AC input for a very compelling reason. My imagination fails me that this condition exists.

Again, IMHO, the shortest path to happiness is a second identical Victron inverter either wired in single phase parallel or split phase.

I'm having this conundrum also. By all accounts the mp2s are louder in operation versus an equivalent Quattro. Presumably because the mp2s have a flatter profile and less room for larger, slower running fans?

Think I'll save for the 10kVA 120v Quattro and add a second for split phase later.

 

[Brucey]

Other option would be something like two Midnite Rosie's but I'm way too deep in the blue now.

 

[JRH]

I love my EMS. I know it has saved my RV power system from getting fried at least once, maybe twice.

I have used a 50 amp Watch Dog for 9 years on my RV… I love it too …and the Bluetooth monitoring display…it has saved my camper numerous times from surges and even when lightning hit close twice and took out lots of stuff near me that was t protected….including two horses…
I would not be without it…

 

[justinm001]

I have used a 50 amp Watch Dog for 9 years on my RV… I love it too …and the Bluetooth monitoring display…it has saved my camper numerous times from surges and even when lightning hit close twice and took out lots of stuff near me that was t protected….including two horses…
I would not be without it…

Is there a long delay between when you plug in to shore and the watchdogs passthru? I have a southwire surgeguard 35550 inline one and it takes a good 3-5 minutes to pass thru power. It also passes thru when there's 120V on both legs, good since I have Victron inverters in split phase and it'll block the 2nd but if not it could be bad.

I can easily max out 50a on both legs so if they're on the same phase I'd be pumping 100a through the neutral and the breakers wouldn't catch it. My internal wiring is all 4ga so can handle it up to my shore cable breaker. I tried a couple cheap surge protector dogbone type and they let me know.

 

[corn18]

My Watchdog takes 3-4 seconds to do its thing before it passes power on the the RV.

 

[JRH]

Is there a long delay between when you plug in to shore and the watchdogs passthru? I have a southwire surgeguard 35550 inline one and it takes a good 3-5 minutes to pass thru power. It also passes thru when there's 120V on both legs, good since I have Victron inverters in split phase and it'll block the 2nd but if not it could be bad.

I can easily max out 50a on both legs so if they're on the same phase I'd be pumping 100a through the neutral and the breakers wouldn't catch it. My internal wiring is all 4ga so can handle it up to my shore cable breaker. I tried a couple cheap surge protector dogbone type and they let me know.

Note** there are several models ,with differet features ..
The Hughes website can supply other info …


If I plug it in and then turn on the 50 shore power breaker ,it will self diagnose the system and connection and then click on with the bulldogs face showing a white outline …it takes about 5 seconds …you hear a click ..then power is on ..

the blue tooth is pretty strong..

I don’t use it on my Victron solar set up as it has different protection..I only use it for shore power to the RV …which has its own 50/amp breaker inside in the factory panel..

If somthing is wrong with something somewhere in the cuircuit , it will NOT turn on properly, it shows a red outline on the bulldog face and blinks an error code ,which you look at the listed codes on its side to find what’s wrong..

if you have an issue happen when it’s normally running it will send you a notification telling you what and why ..if it self corrects it keeps running , if not it shuts down and starts blinking red or whatever …and you have to go fix the prob and it resets… it will shut off at (I think ) at 104 v and at 132 v for low and high voltage protection.

It also will tell you if the protection is used up and needs to be serviced to resupply it’s protection..

My unit has plug- protection modules you can replace in the field ..4800 joules …they cost about 30 dollars at last purchase…I have never had to replace one …seems pretty simple to do..
My spares are still in the box they came in.

The whole unit cost about 300 ish..+/- …I forget…

They make an external pedestal mount unit ( mine)…
and a hardwired internal mount,...

J.

 

[justinm001]

Note** there are several models ,with differet features ..
The Hughes website can supply other info …


If I plug it in and then turn on the 50 shore power breaker ,it will self diagnose the system and connection and then click on with the bulldogs face showing a white outline …it takes about 5 seconds …you hear a click ..then power is on ..

the blue tooth is pretty strong..

I don’t use it on my Victron solar set up as it has different protection..I only use it for shore power to the RV …which has its own 50/amp breaker inside in the factory panel..

If somthing is wrong with something somewhere in the cuircuit , it will NOT turn on properly, it shows a red outline on the bulldog face and blinks an error code ,which you look at the listed codes on its side to find what’s wrong..

if you have an issue happen when it’s normally running it will send you a notification telling you what and why ..if it self corrects it keeps running , if not it shuts down and starts blinking red or whatever …and you have to go fix the prob and it resets… it will shut off at (I think ) at 104 v and at 132 v for low and high voltage protection.

It also will tell you if the protection is used up and needs to be serviced to resupply it’s protection..

My unit has plug- protection modules you can replace in the field ..4800 joules …they cost about 30 dollars at last purchase…I have never had to replace one …seems pretty simple to do..
My spares are still in the box they came in.

The whole unit cost about 300 ish..+/- …I forget…

They make an external pedestal mount unit ( mine)…
and a hardwired internal mount,...

J.

Thanks ill put it on my list to buy the internal mount one

 

[JRH]

Thanks ill put it on my list to buy the internal mount one

For a traveling person I think that’s smart as it’s hidden away… the punks and nare--do-wells of today have figured out they are worth stealing if you are in camp ground or out boondocking….mine stays out on the farm far away from people but I still keep a stern cable through the lock device they have built in to the unit.

Good luck with it..
J.