An absolute noob who knows nothing and needs some advice on solar generators

So, confirming the power requirements:

I tested this morning with a power usage meter-

The motor is an 11.9amp motor
On startup, the motor drew a peak of 1264 watts (pleasantly surprised)
The average consumption while running as 1064 watts
The run time to inflate the lift was just under 5 mins (about 4:38)

To restate--the goal is to run the list 2-4 times per week, probably concentrated on the weekends. If possible, I would like to have the option of running a string of patio lights for 1-2 hours once a week (I could do this with a self-contained solar string to simply).

Thank you

Bubba1969 said:

So, confirming the power requirements:

I tested this morning with a power usage meter-

The motor is an 11.9amp motor
On startup, the motor drew a peak of 1264 watts (pleasantly surprised)
The average consumption while running as 1064 watts
The run time to inflate the lift was just under 5 mins (about 4:38)

To restate--the goal is to run the list 2-4 times per week, probably concentrated on the weekends. If possible, I would like to have the option of running a string of patio lights for 1-2 hours once a week (I could do this with a self-contained solar string to simply).

Thank you

Click to expand...

Now get a killawatt meter and find out total Wh consumed for a luft operation.
If you need 5 lifts a day, multiply by 5, and that is how large a solar generator you will need.

Well, that makes things easier. Anything that has a 2Kw inverter will have plenty of battery capacity and oomph to run that thing and a set of lights with no issue.

Supervstech said:

Now get a killawatt meter and find out total Wh consumed for a luft operation.
If you need 5 lifts a day, multiply by 5, and that is how large a solar generator you will need.

Click to expand...

Ok,you’re losing me. If it draws 1064w and runs for 5 mins isn’t there a formula?

1064w per hour
5 min run time. (5/60) = approximately .08 of an hour
1064x.08 = 85w consumed during run cycle
5 cycles per day
85x5=425w per day

Round up to to cover incidentals?

I’m sure I have this wrong

Bubba1969 said:

I’m sure I have this wrong

Click to expand...

No, you're right. You need that surge capacity more than battery capacity, but anything that is going to have enough surge capacity will have plenty of battery capacity from the factory if only to be able to provide enough amperage to feed the inverter.

Have you looked at the Pectron 2Kw unit? I think that might be right up your alley.

Bubba1969 said:

Ok,you’re losing me. If it draws 1064w and runs for 5 mins isn’t there a formula?

1064w per hour
5 min run time. (5/60) = approximately .08 of an hour
1064x.08 = 85w consumed during run cycle
5 cycles per day
85x5=425w per day

Round up to to cover incidentals?

I’m sure I have this wrong

Click to expand...

Of course, you can math it out, but a kWh meter will calculate exactly how much energy is consumed.
You can math it by factoring the seconds of surge current, and seconds of running current, but amps and power factor and watts arent an easy calculation.
An average would get you in the ballpark.
Say 1800W for 20 seconds, 5 minutes at 1100W, figure a power factor of 50%
So, 1600W doubles to 3200W over 5 minutes.
Whats 5 minutes? 1/12th hour?

So, say 267Wh x 5 to cover the week before you have to recharge

So, you need 1.3kWh of storage.

Not many small solar generators have that.
But you know the number if my math is right...

Or you get a $20 kill o watt meter, and know exactly.

Your call.

Supervstech said:

Of course, you can math it out, but a kWh meter will calculate exactly how much energy is consumed.
You can math it by factoring the seconds of surge current, and seconds of running current, but amps and power factor and watts arent an easy calculation.
An average would get you in the ballpark.
Say 1800W for 20 seconds, 5 minutes at 1100W, figure a power factor of 50%
So, 1600W doubles to 3200W over 5 minutes.
Whats 5 minutes? 1/12th hour?

So, say 267Wh x 5 to cover the week before you have to recharge

So, you need 1.3kWh of storage.

Not many small solar generators have that.
But you know the number if my math is right...

Or you get a $20 kill o watt meter, and know exactly.

Your call.

Click to expand...

I appreciate that- so, to further show my lack of knowledge, the device I bought seems to have a KW/hour meter built into it and a historical save function. I pulled the data and here is what the numbers look like.

Max Wattage: 1264 (visual observed)
Average Wattage: 1064 (visual)
Run time: 3:04 Mins
Total KW usage: .083 KWh for the run time of 3.04 min.

That factors to roughly .41k KWh if I use it 5 times, to stay consistent with the post example above.

Does that sound feasible? We are really talking about a vacuum cleaner motor here...my gut is telling me that everyone has overestimated the power consumption originally.

As for charging my goal is to permanently install a solar panel so the unit can recharge continuously. I believe lost units have a float controller built in to stop overcharging.

Bubba1969 said:

I hadn't thought of that- What is currently on the system is a 2-stage blower, like this. https://www.amazon.com/Ametek-116472-00-Motor-2-Stage-110-120/dp/B009Z0PDPI/ref=sr_1_2?crid=20XMOUW1J6YHP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.x0EE1Y9JqsBneTnBKdsUOuZdi778XqheYxaItF9zMKzQi2-1Lq4jT6v2XSvBzjPV2ESFrXuVy_rTjRidQ4bRU3wtj43g8EJ-m_Exlu4e0G6uYoXVxFfIEMYnJrWXzwIqTTss7MO3bG7kRHLX12JFIHhmGgGJ01_ogebJaLOvGAjoZ_ShM_7rDdyZwy3q1aIairCy-LiNmmpTNe29x-vqjU2N5OrJS3v-CqKoRMUTvj4.dHZGOBxOJei3G8WoWPnxq4bBrPs1ooycf07n126ofXY&dib_tag=se&keywords=hydrohoist+boat+lift+blower+motor&qid=1714825965&sprefix=hydrohoist+boat+lift+blower+motor,aps,160&sr=8-2

Click to expand...

So I didn't realize that you already have a blower.
I was trying to get you in a 12V (or 24V) DC blower because it is so much safer in your situation than AC and you could avoid the need for an inverter.

So you could get an inverter like what has already been suggested. Then connect that to a portable power station that can have a solar panel plugged into it (attaching the panel to the top of the box). I don't know which brands are good, but @Rednecktek suggested the Pecron 2kW and then this could be hooked up to one of their solar panels. You could also ask the forum for other brands of portable power stations with solar connections (which I hope means an MPPT is built in). This would probably be the easiest solution.
I am not sure if by the time you got an inverter, battery, MPPT solar charge controller, solar panel, wiring, and what ever else I am forgetting that you would save much money with a DIY system. I am sure, and hope, that if I am wrong I will be corrected.

I am not a fan of AC with water. As you said, every year someone on your lake gets electrocuted. Low voltage DC is so much safer. Every boat has at least a 12V battery and the only injury I have ever heard of with them was when a buddy of mine was in his jet boat and the battery came loose and whacked him in the ankle.

So another option is that you could convert your system to 24V DC by getting the 24V blower from Lake Lifter that you linked. Then get a 24V LiFePO4 battery, an MPPT solar charge controller, and a solar panel.
A 24V 100Ah battery should have plenty of power for you. That would 2560Wh (Watt Hour) or a conservatively at least 2000Wh of usage without recharging the battery. The 24V lift from Lake Lifter is a 1500W motor which means that an hour of usage is 1500Wh. At 5 minutes a lift that would be 12 lifts. I assume the system doesn't use the blower to lower as it probably just opens the valve on the dock and the water pressure pushes all the air out of the tank lowering the lift.
But with the solar panel installed to the top of the box (or wherever) the battery will be charging a lot more than you will be using it (it is for summer use).

Then get yourself a string of 24V LED lights and you are set! Many of the LED light can take a range of voltage and I believe that many of the solar string lights are 24 volts or can handle that range. A string of these LEDs don't use hardly any power. I bet you could leave them on all night and be fine. You could even install a 24V under water light so you could see lining up the boat on the lift when docking.

Again, there are others here that know a lot more about... well everything... than me, but it looks to me like either of these options would cost you about the same.
They would also be much better able to guide you on exactly what items (brands) and setup if you went the 24V route.

Bubba1969 said:

...
. https://lakelifter.com/products/dc-...MIit6NwIP0hQMV3TbUAR1kvQ6xEAQYAiABEgJy6vD_BwE I did talk to the company about battry recommendations and they told me 6v golf cart batteries and highly advised against Lifepo4?

Click to expand...

This makes no sense. It really shows they don't understand current lithium technology.

LiFePO4 batteries will:

• last 3 to 10 times longer (should last at least 10 years and could easily be more than double that),
• have a much slower natural discharge rate (no need to trickle charge a lithium battery when storing over the winter),
• can draw down lower than lead without being damaged,
• weigh 1/3 to 1/4 than lead batteries,
• and lithium batteries don't have the voltage output drop that lead acid does.

SoggyShoes said:

So I didn't realize that you already have a blower.
I was trying to get you in a 12V (or 24V) DC blower because it is so much safer in your situation than AC and you could avoid the need for an inverter.

So you could get an inverter like what has already been suggested. Then connect that to a portable power station that can have a solar panel plugged into it (attaching the panel to the top of the box). I don't know which brands are good, but @Rednecktek suggested the Pecron 2kW and then this could be hooked up to one of their solar panels. You could also ask the forum for other brands of portable power stations with solar connections (which I hope means an MPPT is built in). This would probably be the easiest solution.
I am not sure if by the time you got an inverter, battery, MPPT solar charge controller, solar panel, wiring, and what ever else I am forgetting that you would save much money with a DIY system. I am sure, and hope, that if I am wrong I will be corrected.

I am not a fan of AC with water. As you said, every year someone on your lake gets electrocuted. Low voltage DC is so much safer. Every boat has at least a 12V battery and the only injury I have ever heard of with them was when a buddy of mine was in his jet boat and the battery came loose and whacked him in the ankle.

So another option is that you could convert your system to 24V DC by getting the 24V blower from Lake Lifter that you linked. Then get a 24V LiFePO4 battery, an MPPT solar charge controller, and a solar panel.
A 24V 100Ah battery should have plenty of power for you. That would 2560Wh (Watt Hour) or a conservatively at least 2000Wh of usage without recharging the battery. The 24V lift from Lake Lifter is a 1500W motor which means that an hour of usage is 1500Wh. At 5 minutes a lift that would be 12 lifts. I assume the system doesn't use the blower to lower as it probably just opens the valve on the dock and the water pressure pushes all the air out of the tank lowering the lift.
But with the solar panel installed to the top of the box (or wherever) the battery will be charging a lot more than you will be using it (it is for summer use).

Then get yourself a string of 24V LED lights and you are set! Many of the LED light can take a range of voltage and I believe that many of the solar string lights are 24 volts or can handle that range. A string of these LEDs don't use hardly any power. I bet you could leave them on all night and be fine. You could even install a 24V under water light so you could see lining up the boat on the lift when docking.

Again, there are others here that know a lot more about... well everything... than me, but it looks to me like either of these options would cost you about the same.
They would also be much better able to guide you on exactly what items (brands) and setup if you went the 24V route.



This makes no sense. It really shows they don't understand current lithium technology.

LiFePO4 batteries will:

• last 3 to 10 times longer (should last at least 10 years and could easily be more than double that),
• have a much slower natural discharge rate (no need to trickle charge a lithium battery when storing over the winter),
• can draw down lower than lead without being damaged,
• weigh 1/3 to 1/4 than lead batteries,
• and lithium batteries don't have the voltage output drop that lead acid does.

Click to expand...

Thank you sir- I appreciate the time you've taken. You have confirmed my conclusions that the two best options are

1. A sort of solar generator/powerstation and inverter set up
2. Go with a 24v blower motor (in this case Lakelifter as they are the only ones available). They claim that you have to use their controller box to make the motor work, but I can't see why. A motor that runs on current, beit AC or DC should just need a power source and a switch. Yes they have fancy proprietary connectors, but that's an easy work around.

As for their take on no LifePO4 batteries-- my best guess is this system was designed before they really became popular, therefore, the controller doesn't play nicely. Why they recommended 2 6v golf cart batteries is beyond me other than the lifespan.

I didnt' know there was such a thing as a 24v LifePo4 battery or do you need 2 12's to make that happen.

I will have to do some research and costing- Again, thank you to everyone who has helped

Bubba1969 said:

Thank you sir- I appreciate the time you've taken. You have confirmed my conclusions that the two best options are

1. A sort of solar generator/powerstation and inverter set up
2. Go with a 24v blower motor (in this case Lakelifter as they are the only ones available). They claim that you have to use their controller box to make the motor work, but I can't see why. A motor that runs on current, beit AC or DC should just need a power source and a switch. Yes they have fancy proprietary connectors, but that's an easy work around.

As for their take on no LifePO4 batteries-- my best guess is this system was designed before they really became popular, therefore, the controller doesn't play nicely. Why they recommended 2 6v golf cart batteries is beyond me other than the lifespan.

I didnt' know there was such a thing as a 24v LifePo4 battery or do you need 2 12's to make that happen.

I will have to do some research and costing- Again, thank you to everyone who has helped

Click to expand...

LFP batteries are readily available in 12.8 to 51.2 volts on the shelf in marine configurations.

Bubba1969 said:

Thank you sir- I appreciate the time you've taken. You have confirmed my conclusions that the two best options are

1. A sort of solar generator/powerstation and inverter set up

Click to expand...

It should be powerstation or inverter setup. The powerstation has the inverter, battery, and hopefully a solar charge controller built in. So the powerstation really should be plug and play.

I don't know about which brands are quality but here are some examples I found including the Peron that @Rednecktek suggested:

• https://www.pecron.com/products/pecron-e2000lfp-portable-power-station and https://www.pecron.com/collections/solar-panel (suggested by @Rednecktek )
• https://growattportable.com/products/growatt-infinity-1500-portable-power-station and https://growattportable.com/products/growatt-100w-solar-panel
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C2ZCPTNB
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG1K1BQ7

If you want to go the DIY route for a 110v AC and use an inverter, then that will be a little more complicated and others are better suited to help you set that up. But, based on your needs and, especially usage, I don't think a decent inverter, battery, solar controller, and solar panel system will be less expensive and more power doesn't sound like it will be useful for you (I can't believe I just said that). I also got brain washed early on by the blue ones on this site and only think in terms of Victron (which are not the cheapest but the best).

I think if you are going to go one of these routes, you would be much better of with a solar panel than a generator. It is going to be less expensive, more reliable, and no draining the tank when you leave. If you can leave a panel permanently out like screwed to the top of your box or mounted on the lift somehow (like if your lift has an awning cover), then in the summer it should stay plenty charged. I have a tiny little panel on the top of my box and a regular 12V deep cycle marine battery. I know my lift is hydraulic and not air displacement like yours, but there are days where we are lifting the boat up a down 5 or 6 times a day for several days in row and have never had a problem. My next battery will be lithium because my lead batteries only seem to last 4 or 5 years.
So I think whatever size solar panel you fit on top of your box will be plenty.

Bubba1969 said:

2. Go with a 24v blower motor (in this case Lakelifter as they are the only ones available). They claim that you have to use their controller box to make the motor work, but I can't see why. A motor that runs on current, beit AC or DC should just need a power source and a switch. Yes they have fancy proprietary connectors, but that's an easy work around.

Click to expand...

I agree with you.
My guess from seeing a video is that they have a 3 way valve and on fill, the valve is open to the blower and activates a switch or relay that turns on the blower to raise the lift. Then there is the off (closed) position and the position that is open to bleed the air and lower the lift. I bet you could easily wire a switch that closes the circuit and turns on the blower.

Going this route means you are avoiding 110AV on the water. You have to buy the 24V blower but you don't need to buy an inverter, so the cost might be about the same as getting one of the powerstations with solar above.

Bubba1969 said:

I didnt' know there was such a thing as a 24v LifePo4 battery or do you need 2 12's to make that happen.

Click to expand...

Although 12V might be the most popular, 24V and especially 48V are very common.
Again here is a link to a popular 24V battery from a company, Litime, that seemed to have found a good balance between price and quality: https://www.litime.com/products/litime-24v-100ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery . If you only need one battery going DIY will probably not save money (moslty due to shipping). If you were building a bigger system, then DIY can save a ton of money and give you exaclty what you want.

Regarding lithium batteries in series:
With the oversight that lithium batteries need compared to lead batteries, it is really better to have one BMS (battery management system) per the voltage of the battery. You can use two 12V batteries in series to achieve a 24V battery - just as you would the two 6V golf cart batteries - to act as a single 12V lead battery. This is fine and even preferable with lead batteries as the 6V plates inside the battery tend to be thicker and last longer.
But lithium batteries are made up of smaller individual battery cells that are attached in series to build up to the desired voltage. It is critical that the cells are managed so that all the cells are aligned so one cell is not being charged or discharged different that the others (and to protect the whole pack). If the cells are not playing well together then things can go bad quickly. Suddenly you can get a runaway cell They go off try to join the circus, hooked on drugs, and turn everybody's world into a shit show. So they really need the dorm parent of a BMS. If you have two batteries in series to get the desired voltage then the dorm parents are taking care of their pack but have no idea or communication of what the other pack is doing and you can get a misallignment between the two packs.

SoggyShoes said:

So I didn't realize that you already have a blower.
I was trying to get you in a 12V (or 24V) DC blower because it is so much safer in your situation than AC and you could avoid the need for an inverter.

So you could get an inverter like what has already been suggested. Then connect that to a portable power station that can have a solar panel plugged into it (attaching the panel to the top of the box). I don't know which brands are good, but @Rednecktek suggested the Pecron 2kW and then this could be hooked up to one of their solar panels. You could also ask the forum for other brands of portable power stations with solar connections (which I hope means an MPPT is built in). This would probably be the easiest solution.
I am not sure if by the time you got an inverter, battery, MPPT solar charge controller, solar panel, wiring, and what ever else I am forgetting that you would save much money with a DIY system. I am sure, and hope, that if I am wrong I will be corrected.

I am not a fan of AC with water. As you said, every year someone on your lake gets electrocuted. Low voltage DC is so much safer. Every boat has at least a 12V battery and the only injury I have ever heard of with them was when a buddy of mine was in his jet boat and the battery came loose and whacked him in the ankle.

So another option is that you could convert your system to 24V DC by getting the 24V blower from Lake Lifter that you linked. Then get a 24V LiFePO4 battery, an MPPT solar charge controller, and a solar panel.
A 24V 100Ah battery should have plenty of power for you. That would 2560Wh (Watt Hour) or a conservatively at least 2000Wh of usage without recharging the battery. The 24V lift from Lake Lifter is a 1500W motor which means that an hour of usage is 1500Wh. At 5 minutes a lift that would be 12 lifts. I assume the system doesn't use the blower to lower as it probably just opens the valve on the dock and the water pressure pushes all the air out of the tank lowering the lift.
But with the solar panel installed to the top of the box (or wherever) the battery will be charging a lot more than you will be using it (it is for summer use).

Then get yourself a string of 24V LED lights and you are set! Many of the LED light can take a range of voltage and I believe that many of the solar string lights are 24 volts or can handle that range. A string of these LEDs don't use hardly any power. I bet you could leave them on all night and be fine. You could even install a 24V under water light so you could see lining up the boat on the lift when docking.

Again, there are others here that know a lot more about... well everything... than me, but it looks to me like either of these options would cost you about the same.
They would also be much better able to guide you on exactly what items (brands) and setup if you went the 24V route.



This makes no sense. It really shows they don't understand current lithium technology.

LiFePO4 batteries will:

• last 3 to 10 times longer (should last at least 10 years and could easily be more than double that),
• have a much slower natural discharge rate (no need to trickle charge a lithium battery when storing over the winter),
• can draw down lower than lead without being damaged,
• weigh 1/3 to 1/4 than lead batteries,
• and lithium batteries don't have the voltage output drop that lead acid does.

Click to expand...

It should be powerstation or inverter setup. The powerstation has the inverter, battery, and hopefully a solar charge controller built in. So the powerstation really should be plug and play.

I don't know about which brands are quality but here are some examples I found including the Peron that @Rednecktek suggested:

• https://www.pecron.com/products/pecron-e2000lfp-portable-power-station and https://www.pecron.com/collections/solar-panel (suggested by @Rednecktek )
• https://growattportable.com/products/growatt-infinity-1500-portable-power-station and https://growattportable.com/products/growatt-100w-solar-panel
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C2ZCPTNB
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG1K1BQ7

If you want to go the DIY route for a 110v AC and use an inverter, then that will be a little more complicated and others are better suited to help you set that up. But, based on your needs and, especially usage, I don't think a decent inverter, battery, solar controller, and solar panel system will be less expensive and more power doesn't sound like it will be useful for you (I can't believe I just said that). I also got brain washed early on by the blue ones on this site and only think in terms of Victron (which are not the cheapest but the best).

I think if you are going to go one of these routes, you would be much better of with a solar panel than a generator. It is going to be less expensive, more reliable, and no draining the tank when you leave. If you can leave a panel permanently out like screwed to the top of your box or mounted on the lift somehow (like if your lift has an awning cover), then in the summer it should stay plenty charged. I have a tiny little panel on the top of my box and a regular 12V deep cycle marine battery. I know my lift is hydraulic and not air displacement like yours, but there are days where we are lifting the boat up a down 5 or 6 times a day for several days in row and have never had a problem. My next battery will be lithium because my lead batteries only seem to last 4 or 5 years.
So I think whatever size solar panel you fit on top of your box will be plenty.

I agree with you.
My guess from seeing a video is that they have a 3 way valve and on fill, the valve is open to the blower and activates a switch or relay that turns on the blower to raise the lift. Then there is the off (closed) position and the position that is open to bleed the air and lower the lift. I bet you could easily wire a switch that closes the circuit and turns on the blower.

Going this route means you are avoiding 110AV on the water. You have to buy the 24V blower but you don't need to buy an inverter, so the cost might be about the same as getting one of the powerstations with solar above.

Although 12V might be the most popular, 24V and especially 48V are very common.
Again here is a link to a popular 24V battery from a company, Litime, that seemed to have found a good balance between price and quality: https://www.litime.com/products/litime-24v-100ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery . If you only need one battery going DIY will probably not save money (moslty due to shipping). If you were building a bigger system, then DIY can save a ton of money and give you exaclty what you want.

Regarding lithium batteries in series:
With the oversight that lithium batteries need compared to lead batteries, it is really better to have one BMS (battery management system) per the voltage of the battery. You can use two 12V batteries in series to achieve a 24V battery - just as you would the two 6V golf cart batteries - to act as a single 12V lead battery. This is fine and even preferable with lead batteries as the 6V plates inside the battery tend to be thicker and last longer.
But lithium batteries are made up of smaller individual battery cells that are attached in series to build up to the desired voltage. It is critical that the cells are managed so that all the cells are aligned so one cell is not being charged or discharged different that the others (and to protect the whole pack). If the cells are not playing well together then things can go bad quickly. Suddenly you can get a runaway cell They go off try to join the circus, hooked on drugs, and turn everybody's world into a shit show. So they really need the dorm parent of a BMS. If you have two batteries in series to get the desired voltage then the dorm parents are taking care of their pack but have no idea or communication of what the other pack is doing and you can get a misallignment between the two packs.


Thank you for the time to write all of this up- it means a lot to someone who is really struggling to learn.

Regarding the multiple valve scenario- That is definitely not the case on mine as i have only a 2 tank lift. It is a simple manual ball valve, just like you would find at any big box store. I may need to talk to them more specifically.

SoggyShoes said:

(I can't believe I just said that). I also got brain washed early on by the blue ones on this site and only think in terms of Victron (which are not the cheapest but the best).

Click to expand...

Yes, you did get brainwashed. Top tier but not THE best

@littleharbor2 my conclusion was in research when designing the system for my RV, but I am new to brands and systems especially for any other applications. What do you consider the best overall brand and what you think is the best among items, like inverters, charge controllers, converters and chargers?
Also I know nothing about brands for portable powerstations, do you have knowledge about those that you could share for the OP?

SoggyShoes said:

@littleharbor2 my conclusion was in research when designing the system for my RV, but I am new to brands and systems especially for any other applications. What do you consider the best overall brand and what you think is the best among items, like inverters, charge controllers, converters and chargers?
Also I know nothing about brands for portable powerstations, do you have knowledge about those that you could share for the OP?

Click to expand...

I know nothing about power stations but as to what I believe to be the best MFG., I am biased but not brainwashed. Answer, Midnite Solar.

littleharbor2 said:

I know nothing about power stations but as to what I believe to be the best MFG., I am biased but not brainwashed. Answer, Midnite Solar.

Click to expand...

Now that you say that, it seems Midnite Solar is pretty popular here.
I know there is a lot of excitement about Midnite Solar's The 0ne.
I will have spend some more time checking out their stuff.

SoggyShoes said:

Now that you say that, it seems Midnite Solar is pretty popular here.
I know there is a lot of excitement about Midnite Solar's The 0ne.
I will have spend some more time checking out their stuff.

Click to expand...

They have a long and admirable history
Here's an interesting writeup about their history.