Iconica 3000 hybrid inverter neutral bonding

I just left this message on this YouTuber's video:


Just found your channel. It's funny, I have two of the 5000W Iconica inverters (running in parallel) and the manual looks exactly the same as yours. The menu is the same. I've worked out through running the inverter what the three modes are. The confusion was the distinction between SOL (solar, utility battery) and SBU (solar, battery, utility). I've worked out that if you have the latter selected, then the battery will keep 'cycling' (charging, then discharging) if the solar isn't enough to meet the need. The solar works with the battery until the cutoff voltage is reached (48V in my case), then the utility will take over and charge the battery and once full the battery will kick in again and repeat the cycle. This will be ok in spring /summer and possibly autumn, when my 8kW array will probably meet most needs, with the battery then filling in during the evening. Now in winter, the first mode is probably better, where the battery is acting more like a UPS if the utility should go down. This way the minimal solar that is produced in winter can be used to augment the utility but the majority will have to come from utility as my battery bank is only a 10kW lead acid (5kW usable).
When set in SBU mode, I probably used more grid power than just having the grid augment whatever solar was coming in because of the losses involved in charging /discharging the battery bank. I also want to go into the evening with a full battery bank in case of blackouts.

I've rigged up an old laptop with an SSD running Windows 7 and use the 'Watchpower' software. I've had good backup from the company I bought the inverters from, Photonic Universe in the UK.
I've got my system up and running and using an old laptop and Watchpower can see what the two units are doing in realtime. My only real past experience with inverters are with the Sterling and Star Power units which I've fitted to various motorhomes and campervans. These units (often 2000-3000W pure sine inverters) have in-built chargers for charging the battery bank and also a facility called 'shore power'. This is enabled whenever the units see 240V on their inputs. Basically, the units stop inverting power from the battery (and hence solar if connected) and then just feed the 240V input straight through to the output. I thought every inverter that had mains input capability would do this, but I'm not sure whether this is happening in the Iconica ones. (The supplier replied that the inverters are permanently inverting whatever the power source, which makes sense as there is often more than one source simultaneously, unlike my motorhome/campervan situation where there was just a sole source.)
Why this matters in my setup and I presume anyone else who is running a similar system, is because of big power draw items like an electric shower or a heat pump. Our shower is rated at 9.5kW on winter setting and pulls according to the software about 9kW. Since I only have two inverters, I'm almost at the max 10kW available. I thought when 'utility' was set as the input mode, the input would merely be diverted to the output. We are running the shower in 'summer' setting at the moment which only draws roughly 5kW leaving another 50% available should someone turn a kettle on etc. I have room to fit another inverter to take the headroom up to 15kW which would be enough at the moment to deal with this problem.
If this was the case, am I right in thinking I only need to connect the battery and grid input and outputs in parallel with the existing two fitted to make this work?
I only have two 4kW strings of PV which feed inverter one and two at the moment. My panels are arranged in two 4kW arrays, with one array serving each inverter and the MPPT in each controlling each array. This works out great as the voltage of each array is max. 400V. The manuals (both the parallel board manual and the IC2-KMS5000 48P) only specify that the battery connections and the grid input and output should be paralleled, which makes sense.
It doesn't mention however if you need to supply panels to a third inverter? Since my array at max would only produce say 7kW on a bright summer's day, this could easily be disbursed through the two inverters which have panels attached. The third inverter would really be for times when the power was mainly coming through the grid, or a fully charged battery (although the lead-acid bank would see its voltage drop massively if it was outputting say 200A).
I really need to know that adding a third inverter would be possible WITHOUT adding any panels to it, as my cable runs are all sorted now and can't be changed. Also, can anyone recommend a 150A AC breaker if I go for another inverter or a 100A AC breaker if I stay with the two inverters as the 50A RCBO I'm using has occasionally tripped. Do I need a breaker before the inverters as I already have the main 100A supplier fuse before the meter and a 100A isolator switch after the meter when I need to isolate grid power to the inverters? My consumer units have MCBs fitted to each circuit for protection. It would of course be devastating if we went away for the weekend and any breaker(s) fitted before the inverters was to trip, because then we would only have the solar and whatever battery power was available before we'd lose all power.

Thanks to anyone who may be able to help. You can see my setup here:

Just heard back from Photonic Universe.
The Iconica inverters can work in parallel with panels just serving one or more of the inverters. They do not need to have panels connected to every inverter, which in my case is dandy because I couldn't add any more panels at the moment.

I'm starting each day by taking a meter reading of the elec and gas. I've assembled an Open Office spreadsheet which I can put the readings in and instantly see what I've used and the cost. By the end of the month I should have amassed enough data to see what an average day looks like and more importantly during one of the worst months of the year.
I've just bought another inverter and parallel kit, which will give me a max. of 15kW with bursts up to 30kW which will give me headroom above our 9.5kW shower. Having it on a summer setting where it just draws 5kW is too brutal in winter. My battery bank is currently four 12V Varta LFD230 lead acid batteries wired in series for 48V. This gives me a usable 5kW bank (50% depletion). I've just bought another 8 though from an Ebay dealer which look like 'seconds' from Varta, the same batteries for £100 each. This 30kW (15kW usable) bank will have cost me around £1800 (although I had the first four left over from a campervan project) and if lasts 3 to 5 years I'll be happy with that. I am moving everything over to electric with the idea that I never have the grid on. I already have an LPG/ petrol generator that I'm thinking of using for the extended periods when there isn't any solar, but what I'm finding, even in Dec / Jan, there are days when maybe for an hour or two, my 8.5kW array can produce 2kW per hour. If I only get 6kW per day, on a frugal budget this would be enough to run the lights, computers etc.
Fun and games...

OK, so I added another Iconica inverter to my setup and also increased the size of the battery bank.
After checking with Photonic Universe that I could add another inverter to the two I already had, without adding any more panels (I haven't got the room or the budget!), I fitted another to the setup. I also found an Ebay reseller of the Varta LFD230 I had already (I have four) and got a great deal on 'seconds'. These are batteries that have cosmetic damage to the casing, but the seller assured me that the batteries themselves are new. They were a third the price of a new one and all seemed to check ok on delivery. I now have 12 x 12V Varta 230Ah batteries. I've arranged them to give three paralleled banks to a buss bar then on to a single 250V DC fuse (fused both pos and neg). This gives three 48V banks of 230Ah each giving a total of 690Ah @ 48V = 33kW. I've come across a great YouTuber who dispels the myths surrounding lead-acid and lithium:


and I'm now glad I cancelled my £8000 order for 20kW of SOK lithium batteries. I'm planning on running the batteries between 100-70% charge. This way, it should maximise their life-span. I also fitted a battery monitor that I've fitted in various motorhomes, a Juntek VAT-4300. Again, this monitor receives some bad press from the Victron fanboys, but for the money I think it's great. I'm going to fully charge the battery bank, then monitor the output on the Juntek (it has a wattage meter). When it gets to around 10kW, this will represent somewhere around 70% of the battery bank. With a minimal load, if I take note of the bank's voltage at this point, this should be the level to which I set the grid to kick in and charge the bank back to 100%. If the solar has been good, then the bank will be maintained on its own (depending of course on the draw). I also sorted the 'tripping' RCBO issue out this morning by replacing them with 50A MCBs. They worked flawlessly on power up and when I think about it, the tripping may have been down to the ramping up and ramping down of the inverters' outputs as each one is adjusted to provide the synced single phase output. Does that sound feasible?

I'm trying to talk the wife into getting another twelve batteries. My setup is in the garage (which I want to seal off later in the year to decrease the heat loss in the home). With another twelve, we would have approx. two days usage without any topping up and still be in the 100 - 70% range. Another two days would take us to around 50% of the bank's charge, at which point a genny could kick in and replenish the whole bank.
As you can see, I've become rather obsessive about getting rid of my grid supply and the dependency.

Last week I added another 20 batteries, giving a total of 32 batteries (8 banks of 4 for 48V) and built a custom cupboard to house them in the corner of the garage. It runs floor to ceiling and measures 1200mm x 8000mm. It gives around 30kW capacity running at 100-70% capacity. It would give another 20kW if I wanted to go as low as 50% capacity. This is turning out to be about 2 to 3 days capacity without any top up from solar. As we move into spring, I'm hoping that the solar will provide the 10-15kW needed to keep the system running without needing grid top-up. The Watchpower software seems to have stopped working and I can't seem to figure out whether it's a Windows 7 problem (remember how picky USB ports used to be?) or the inverter itself.

Folks,
Apologies for late entry.

Just found and connected with this website and found by chance you have been discussing the same problem I am currently encountering with my System ...Iconica 5Kv , 4.5Kw Panel install ,tied into Grid with back up 8x 100Ah Batteries ( 48V).

I have had the Invertor for a few years and has been working and operating the house fine , which was all Electric units.

I have now had a Gas Fired Boiler and HW Tank installed, and now find that all other systems in the house work fine ..and.. including the Gas Boiler when on USB ( Utility /Solar /Battery ..as you would expect ..)... but ... the Gas Boiler continually trips out, when I place the Invertor settings to SBU ? ( Solar/Battery/Utility)

I note from comments last year that you guys have encountered a similar problems, and in my chats with Photonic Universe, they have been giving helpful insight, to what appears to be ab inherent problem caused apparently by an Earth/Negative conflict , something that you members have also encountered. Apparently it is a conflict due to the Batteries supply

I would like to ask you , to clarify , there is mention of this " Earth/Negative Screw" internally ?

Since I have had this Invertor from new, I have never removed this screw, so I would like to ask you all ...

A: To remedy this " earth tripping" Boiler problem , should I leave the screw in ...or remove ?

B; Should we look to install an additional Earth Grounding on the problem Boiler Item ?

Appreciate

TerryBarnaby said:

Thanks for the reply.
I have just found out today, from Photonic Universe who supplied the inverter, that these inverters have a screw inside shorting the Neutral to Earth by default. Not mentioned in the manuals or anything else I have seen, technical info is poor these days! Anyway easy to remove and now it is fine when supplied through an RCD. I really don't know why this was the default. I guess it comes from completely off-grid battery/solar only inverters where bonding the Neutral output to Earth is probably best. But with AC IN I personally don't think this is a good idea as default and it would be easy to link outside the unit if/when wanted and would be obvious this has been done.
Also note for anyone else using these units the AC OUT Neutral is directly connected to the AC IN Neutral and the bypass relay appears just to switch the Live line.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much Terry I was at my whit's end trying to figure out why my RCD was false tripping when I plugged something in or switched the lights on in the garage I've done current fault tests, grounding tests, leakage tests, every test I did was telling me the wiring and earth was perfect and could not understand why the 60A 30MA RCD was tripping I was on the verge of purchasing another RCD @100MA but the fault would of still been there because of this little screw. Your post has stopped a major headache for me that little N-GND screw should not be a default, I removed the screw and everything worked as it should. This information should be easy to find because it's taken me a month to find this forum and the reason why the RCD is false tripping with this system or even other systems with the same set up.

althemusicwizard said:

I just left this message on this YouTuber's video:

Just found your channel. It's funny, I have two of the 5000W Iconica inverters (running in parallel) and the manual looks exactly the same as yours. The menu is the same. I've worked out through running the inverter what the three modes are. The confusion was the distinction between SOL (solar, utility battery) and SBU (solar, battery, utility). I've worked out that if you have the latter selected, then the battery will keep 'cycling' (charging, then discharging) if the solar isn't enough to meet the need. The solar works with the battery until the cutoff voltage is reached (48V in my case), then the utility will take over and charge the battery and once full the battery will kick in again and repeat the cycle. This will be ok in spring /summer and possibly autumn, when my 8kW array will probably meet most needs, with the battery then filling in during the evening. Now in winter, the first mode is probably better, where the battery is acting more like a UPS if the utility should go down. This way the minimal solar that is produced in winter can be used to augment the utility but the majority will have to come from utility as my battery bank is only a 10kW lead acid (5kW usable).
When set in SBU mode, I probably used more grid power than just having the grid augment whatever solar was coming in because of the losses involved in charging /discharging the battery bank. I also want to go into the evening with a full battery bank in case of blackouts.

I've rigged up an old laptop with an SSD running Windows 7 and use the 'Watchpower' software. I've had good backup from the company I bought the inverters from, Photonic Universe in the UK.
I've got my system up and running and using an old laptop and Watchpower can see what the two units are doing in realtime. My only real past experience with inverters are with the Sterling and Star Power units which I've fitted to various motorhomes and campervans. These units (often 2000-3000W pure sine inverters) have in-built chargers for charging the battery bank and also a facility called 'shore power'. This is enabled whenever the units see 240V on their inputs. Basically, the units stop inverting power from the battery (and hence solar if connected) and then just feed the 240V input straight through to the output. I thought every inverter that had mains input capability would do this, but I'm not sure whether this is happening in the Iconica ones. (The supplier replied that the inverters are permanently inverting whatever the power source, which makes sense as there is often more than one source simultaneously, unlike my motorhome/campervan situation where there was just a sole source.)
Why this matters in my setup and I presume anyone else who is running a similar system, is because of big power draw items like an electric shower or a heat pump. Our shower is rated at 9.5kW on winter setting and pulls according to the software about 9kW. Since I only have two inverters, I'm almost at the max 10kW available. I thought when 'utility' was set as the input mode, the input would merely be diverted to the output. We are running the shower in 'summer' setting at the moment which only draws roughly 5kW leaving another 50% available should someone turn a kettle on etc. I have room to fit another inverter to take the headroom up to 15kW which would be enough at the moment to deal with this problem.
If this was the case, am I right in thinking I only need to connect the battery and grid input and outputs in parallel with the existing two fitted to make this work?
I only have two 4kW strings of PV which feed inverter one and two at the moment. My panels are arranged in two 4kW arrays, with one array serving each inverter and the MPPT in each controlling each array. This works out great as the voltage of each array is max. 400V. The manuals (both the parallel board manual and the IC2-KMS5000 48P) only specify that the battery connections and the grid input and output should be paralleled, which makes sense.
It doesn't mention however if you need to supply panels to a third inverter? Since my array at max would only produce say 7kW on a bright summer's day, this could easily be disbursed through the two inverters which have panels attached. The third inverter would really be for times when the power was mainly coming through the grid, or a fully charged battery (although the lead-acid bank would see its voltage drop massively if it was outputting say 200A).
I really need to know that adding a third inverter would be possible WITHOUT adding any panels to it, as my cable runs are all sorted now and can't be changed. Also, can anyone recommend a 150A AC breaker if I go for another inverter or a 100A AC breaker if I stay with the two inverters as the 50A RCBO I'm using has occasionally tripped. Do I need a breaker before the inverters as I already have the main 100A supplier fuse before the meter and a 100A isolator switch after the meter when I need to isolate grid power to the inverters? My consumer units have MCBs fitted to each circuit for protection. It would of course be devastating if we went away for the weekend and any breaker(s) fitted before the inverters was to trip, because then we would only have the solar and whatever battery power was available before we'd lose all power.

Thanks to anyone who may be able to help. You can see my setup here:

Click to expand...

Could you let me know how you use Watchpower with these Iconica Inverters? And also, Ive had an Iconica 3000W inverter for twos years and never attached a generator to it. This week I have tried to use a generator at the AC input. It recognises it is there but does not charge the battery. I was wondering if the batteries have to reach a certain voltage before the generator is allowed to to start charging them?