Who is actually manufacturing this inverter?

An article about the buildings

In the paper

justinm001 said:

It shows rosenburger and endurenergy with the same address. Sol-ark as permanently closed.
I doubt its Google Street view not updated enough but they've never had a sign because it's a multi company address.

Click to expand...

Lol yes that is our closed office. We moved just up the road to a much larger campus. Endurenergy is one of our battery partners - that is not included in our employee count... but I mean... do you not want battery companies and inverter companies to work together? Seriously, don't be cynical.

Also, the fact that we didn't put a giant sign in the front lawn that says Sol-Ark on a building which we used for two years... i mean you say that shows Sol-Ar isn't a real company, but I would say it shows that Sol-Ark makes sound financial decisions rather than wasteful ones. Your call on what you want to think though. You should change your mind though because your arguments are not very good ones.

jrcromer said:

Lol yes that is our closed office. We moved just up the road to a much larger campus.

Click to expand...

What's the address?

I mean... you want to do ANY research?

Here's what gets me about the trolls / USA haters who don't believe when the CEO of the company comes onto this forum to spell out the relationship between Sol-Ark and Deye. Fine - for the sake of this assumption, put yourself in the mindset of a troll who believes the USA is incapable of doing anything manufacturing related and China dominates us to the point where we are all dum dums and China does all the innovation. If you believe Deye owns the inverter, and not Sol-Ark... then compare Deye against Luxpower... Deye revenue is around $800 million / year. Luxpower revenue is around $5 million / year (2022 from what I can find online). Which of those Chinese OEMs do you want making your inverter?

It's 115k building and there's currently 88k square feet for lease, so 25k leased already. Micron and another company has signage rights.... micron is a multi billion dollar company BTW. So I'm assuming Micron and the other company have the larges spaces since they have signage.

Read the article Tulex posted above... or schedule a consultation with the realtor in the link you provided? Do as deep a dive as you want or literally come on by for a tour. Sol-Ark isn't Google - we don't own the internet.

> The company has leased a 115,000-square-foot office building at 805 North Central Expressway for its headquarters. The two-story building is just east of the popular Watters Creek shopping district and previously housed operations of Frontier Communications... And a few blocks away at 915 Enterprise Blvd., Sol-Ark has leased 180,000 square feet of industrial space for production, research and design, product support and repairs. They are going to take our largest manufacturing building and our largest vacant office building,” said Dan Bowman, Allen Economic Development Corp. executive director. “The two largest vacancies in Allen are being wiped out.”

jrcromer said:

Sol-Ark isn't Google - we don't own the internet.

Click to expand...

No but you do own your Google business which Google verifies your address and allows you to list this on their site, preventing others from using it... since they can't verify. Any company over 5 employees should be able to manage their Google account, update photos and provide information so others can easily find it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying a 5 minute Google search shows information refuting what you're saying. If the information is incorrect then your company should be notifying those that have the incorrect information to have it fixed. They don't want incorrect information as much as you guys don't want it.

As a business owner this would be one of my top priorities, especially if I was trying to establish a brand and separate myself from Chinese knockoffs. You have a whole community of buyers who are concerned about the quality and reliability, who are buying your product solely based on reputation, and your team can't update a Google listing

@jccromer I would recommend you stop responding. You are not convincing any unbelievers and you may say something that may alienate someone who is neutral. Responding is a lose lose I think. Just let it go.

1201 said:

@jccromer I would recommend you stop responding. You are not convincing any unbelievers and you may say something that may alienate someone who is neutral. Responding is a lose lose I think. Just let it go.

Click to expand...

He could be right he could be wrong. I just only believe facts and rely on data from proven sources.

The correct response is to acknowledge they're lacking in communication and he should let his team members who are in charge of those things know and also report to upper management that consumers are reporting issues with their appearance online and needs resolved ASAP. Not be combative and berate people who are looking for answers and asking for communication through official channels

justinm001 said:

He could be right he could be wrong. I just only believe facts and rely on data from proven sources.

The correct response is to acknowledge they're lacking in communication and he should let his team members who are in charge of those things know and also report to upper management that consumers are reporting issues with their appearance online and needs resolved ASAP. Not be combative and berate people who are looking for answers and asking for communication through official channels

Click to expand...

there is nothing, literally nothing, that jccromer or anyone from solark could say, that would convince me, or most people, that the intellectual property for DEYE inverters, an $800 million a year company, came from Solark.

they say they GAVE the ip to deye to make solar affordable for the world, but sue anyone who wants to sell DEYE inverters affordably in the USA.

Come on now! that's why I suggested he stop. more words just make it worse.

justinm001 said:

The correct response is to acknowledge they're lacking in communication and he should let his team members who are in charge of those things know and also report to upper management that consumers are reporting issues with their appearance online and needs resolved ASAP. Not be combative and berate people who are looking for answers and asking for communication through official channels

Click to expand...

That's humorous. A couple people aren't happy because they can't get the answers they want, and it's a Sol-Ark problem. This problem must be bad, because it has forced them to move out of their building into bigger ones.

By the way, the communication is so bad, they sent me an email about the move, and that there could be a short interruption in communication/service during the move. Horrid.

Tulex said:

That's humorous. A couple people aren't happy because they can't get the answers they want, and it's a Sol-Ark problem. This problem must be bad, because it has forced them to move out of their building into bigger ones.

By the way, the communication is so bad, they sent me an email about the move, and that there could be a short interruption in communication/service during the move. Horrid.

Click to expand...

I'm a business owner that works with thousands of small businesses. The fact Sol-Ark can't update their information on the internet and provide official resources about their US staff and information is a huge red flag.

Before I do business with anyone or anything I do basic due diligence and a simple Google search doesn't give me confidence in their products. I've never had Sol-Ark but wouldn't buy. I've bought only Victron because it's proven and everything backs it.

I'm now in the market for home inverters to feed solar into the grid and Victron isnt the best option because they don't offer AIO and I don't need reliability. Looks like I'll be buying a dozen or so sunnyboys but haven't finished my due diligence on them either

The new HQ is listed on our contact page on our website and the HQ is on google maps as well. When I google "Sol-Ark" on google maps, I see the new HQ as open and the old location marked as permanently closed. Not sure what Justin's issue is, but unlike a retailer, our focus is on getting the 60k + optimizers launched, and then it will move onto our load controller launch. Not prioritizing our our google maps support to 100%.

As far as the IP goes, the proof is in the supply chain exclusivity.
Sol-Ark has it with Deye.
EG4 and Fortress do not have it with Luxpower.
Can't really get more clear than that, regarding the real power in the relationship.

/u/1201 I provided you with revenue information to compare Deye vs. Luxpower. You used the information for an erroneous comparison of Deye vs. Sol-Ark. Sol-Ark is not in competition with Deye. They are our contract manufacturer partner and they are 100x the size of Luxpower, which is EG4's OEM. OEMs like Deye do not typically create products, they build them to spec for others, as our CEO has been on this forum to explain. The nature of overseas manufacturing is not unknown to users of this forum - you give your IP away overseas to participate in global manufacturing. So Deye does whatever it wants in Europe, Australia, Africa, Asia. Different regulations and not our focus. You may not like globalism - if you don't the absolute best thing you can do is petition your representatives and senators to incorporate domestic production adders to the residential tax credit. Much better than just remaining cynical about the role of the USA in global manufacturing.

But if you think like @1201 that Deye is driving the design and quality control, how do you bridget the gap between China only makes garbage to Sol-Arks being great inverters with feature sets that didn't exist before Sol-Ark? Likewise, do you think Tom Brennan just shows up in China and knocks on Deye's door and says "hey give me an exclusive supply agreement for North America" without having any claim of product ownership, and this $800MM OEM says "yea sure thing bro"?

I just don't get /u/1201 logic when he says "no way Deye IP comes from Sol-Ark". What are the mental gymnastics needed to explain the supply chain exclusivity with that mindset?

Sol-Ark invented the AIO with 200A pass-through + automatic grid disconnect built in. Go with a cheaper knockoff if you want, but you are wrong if you deny the thought leadership. Victron and Sunnyboys are legends in this industry, but do not have the listings to pass inspection in the USA. Use them for offgrid if you want. You can also use Sol-Ark offgrid if you want. I think offgrid will want a load controller, Sol-Ark will have that in-platform very soon, to go along with our DC optimizers. Later, micro-inverters too.

justinm001 said:

I'm a business owner that works with thousands of small businesses....
The fact Sol-Ark can't... provide official resources about their US staff...is a huge red flag.

Click to expand...

Show me a site where privately held companies issue official statements about their company sizes, please.

jrcromer said:

The new HQ is listed on our contact page on our website and the HQ is on google maps as well. When I google "Sol-Ark" on google maps, I see the new HQ as open and the old location marked as permanently closed. Not sure what Justin's issue is, but unlike a retailer, our focus is on getting the 60k + optimizers launched, and then it will move onto our load controller launch. Not prioritizing our our google maps support to 100%.

As far as the IP goes, the proof is in the supply chain exclusivity.
Sol-Ark has it with Deye.
EG4 and Fortress do not have it with Luxpower.
Can't really get more clear than that, regarding the real power in the relationship.

/u/1201 I provided you with revenue information to compare Deye vs. Luxpower. You used the information for an erroneous comparison of Deye vs. Sol-Ark. Sol-Ark is not in competition with Deye. They are our contract manufacturer partner and they are 100x the size of Luxpower, which is EG4's OEM. OEMs like Deye do not typically create products, they build them to spec for others, as our CEO has been on this forum to explain. The nature of overseas manufacturing is not unknown to users of this forum - you give your IP away overseas to participate in global manufacturing. So Deye does whatever it wants in Europe, Australia, Africa, Asia. Different regulations and not our focus. You may not like globalism - if you don't the absolute best thing you can do is petition your representatives and senators to incorporate domestic production adders to the residential tax credit. Much better than just remaining cynical about the role of the USA in global manufacturing.

But if you think like @1201 that Deye is driving the design and quality control, how do you go from "China only makes garbage" to "Sol-Arks are very good inverters with feature sets that didn't exist before Sol-Ark"? Do you think Tom Brennan just shows up in China and knocks on Deye's door and says "hey give me an exclusive supply agreement for North America" without having any claim of product ownership?

I just don't get /u/1201 logic when he says "no way Deye IP comes from Sol-Ark". What are the mental gymnastics needed to explain the supply chain exclusivity with that mindset?

Click to expand...

Gheez. you could keep this about your business practices so you don't start arguing about ours. I could counter several points here including the size and quality level of the fab our inverters are built in (which I have visited personally, have you ever been to DEYE to confirm your 100x claim?). several tier 1 well-known brands are made in the same fab as us and frankly, the QC is the most meticulous I have ever seen. Also, your "they do nothing by themselves" claim is weak based on the DEYE international brand and experience but wasting the forum arguing about other's businesses is a disservice.


The point of this thread where it started out is that at your last company, they apparently were claiming to have a "special firmware team" and apparently a user here spent good money with them and ended up with China for support. it's a little bit of a stretch to buy this at your new company.

This has become such a strange thread.
1. Sol-Ark is a real business, and I would guess they have a couple design engineers on the power side and a few programmers for the software side; that is essentially the minimum any company can have that works with a contract manufacturer. Looking at job postings for the company you get a pretty good sense of their size and growth plans, and it is fairly easy to deduce that the bulk of their staffing is sales and support. Their business structure is fairly transparent in the scheme of things.

2. Sol-Ark's domestic US competitors in the Tier-2 space are similar in size-- I would guess the 50-200 person range, and generally have similar styles of operations, although the growth trajectories for each varies. Nobody is doing serious manufacturing in the US for power electronics or batteries. It is possible that a few are doing some "final assembly" style operations in the US, but most of that work is done in Mexico. The only manufacturing that is viable in the US is highly custom, low volume, high margin work and work that can be easily automated. That was not the case 15 years ago.

3. There is a hell of a lot of value add between a contract manufacturer in China and US sales/support. If you order a container of inverters from a contract manufacturer and get them shipped to a US warehouse you have realized about 5% of that value-add... but you might be able to charge as though it is a 50-75% value add if you are smart. Only the con-men try to claim a 100% realization of the value add; yes one of the Tier-2 suppliers falls in that category IMO.

My claim is purely based around 2022 revenue on the internet. It could be very wrong, and perhaps 2023 will see the gap tighten as Luxpower gets off the ground. Care to enlighten us with some Luxpower revenue figures of your own? Or some of their corporate history? Either way, I don't think it is wrong to suggest Deye is substantially larger with a substantially longer track record than LuxPower.

Deye had nothing like the Sol-Ark 15k before Sol-Ark, and neither did LuxPower. Copycats are going to copy, that's China. We'll take it as flattery.

Also James, I left a very good position with my previous employer to go work for Sol-Ark. So there's that too.

Also James, OEMs typically do not create products. Deye may be one of the very best OEMs for hybrid inverters, but they did not have anything like the Sol-Ark before Sol-Ark. Prove me wrong.

jrcromer said:

Show me a site where privately held companies issue official statements about their company sizes, please.

Click to expand...

There are actually several. Dunn and Bradstreet being one of the bigger ones. Also, you can get drilled-down data from PPA loans, although that is out of date now.

Employee count is behind a paywall. Care to share?

But given your background, surely you know that D&B are very commonly estimates on employee figures, not official statements. Again because actual employee counts are often considered secret within privately held companies. So its really such a huge red flag for Sol-Ark to not be making official statements about employee count? Seems to me most privately held corporations not to make such official statements and leave it to the algorithms to guess.

jrcromer said:

Show me a site where privately held companies issue official statements about their company sizes, please.

Click to expand...

Most companies have some form of team page or company directory for at least key decision makers. You then have other resources like LinkedIn, zoominfo, Dunn and broadsheet, Lexis nexus. There's tons of companies that mine job listing to get this info.

Almost every company has to report their size and revenue for one reason or another. This data is logged and accessible.

Legit companies are proud of their team members and company size so report themselves