diy solar

diy solar

Adding storage to my Enphase system

Perhaps I can clarify and demystify. Any hybrid inverter that is AC coupled to a GT inverter (string or micros) will have some constraint on the size of GT inverters it can control. Tesla Powerwalls, my Outback Skybox, SolArk and the Schneider that @GXMnow is installing have their own limits based on how fast their firmware can interact with the standardized GT inverter frequency shift per Watt (as defined by UL 1741 SA). The electrical efficiency doesn't change if they have configured a generator port to be bidirectional or go direct to the critical loads panel.

I think it actually made this a lot easier in the separate replies.

The Sol-Ark instructions on AC coupling are very odd. The Schneider, Skybox, and others all made sense, but on the the Sol-Ark, how manual is written, it sounds like you have to have some DC coupled solar to use any AC coupled solar. It had a list of different wattage ratios with ratings of good to bad. And no example had only AC coupled solar. And no example had the AC coupled solar on the output essential load panel either.
 
Sorry to make so many comments but your long post was so rich with useful information I thought it more productive to make specific comments individually than make a long response and get distracted.
You may not have been on your NEM agreement long enough for a True Up. The $0.02 that SCE pays is only at the end of the year based on the aggregate net balance accumulated over the year. You are being credited each month at the full TOU rate in effect when you sell it back. Therefore there is no benefit to being a net generator because any year end balance is reduced. Think of two buckets, one accumulating kWhrs and the other accumulating dollars. They don't reduce your kWh balance at year end True Up but you lose 80% of the dollar value because it is only paid out at the $0.02 wholesale rate.

However there is a way to game the system legitimatly. It is easiest if you have an EV but you can also do it with a hybrid inverter. I have been driving EVs as long as I have have had solar and TOU rates. Each year I have a credit balance in the dollar bucket (negative) and a net consumption balance (positive) in the kWh bucket. What happens at True up is the two wash and I just got one or two megaWatthours for free. It is very simple, I store energy i produce at a rate from $0.50 to $0.35 per kWh and charge my EVs at $0.15 per kWh.

SCE has been showing me my running total each month, and it is $540 energy cost at the end of 11 months now. My 12th month ends in just a couple days and I will get my "true up" bill. Each month they sent me a bill for the taxes, and they ranged from $6 to $18. Starting in Sept. I should start getting just individual monthly bills again. They did work extra hard to make the bill very confusing. It shows the total power used and exported for each billing rate time. And then it shows the cost I pay for the power, but they hide what they are paying me. It is not straight subtracted. And the fact they bill me for the taxes and other "non bypassable charges" each month, it hides the rate even further. Once I get the actual true up bill, I will try to figure out an accurate rate of what they are crediting me for my exported power. But hopefully I will get my export down a lot with the battery very soon.
 
I think it actually made this a lot easier in the separate replies.

The Sol-Ark instructions on AC coupling are very odd. The Schneider, Skybox, and others all made sense, but on the the Sol-Ark, how manual is written, it sounds like you have to have some DC coupled solar to use any AC coupled solar. It had a list of different wattage ratios with ratings of good to bad. And no example had only AC coupled solar. And no example had the AC coupled solar on the output essential load panel either.
The guy who is going to install my system likes Enphase micro inverters. And I was thinking I would just put them on all the panels. I have a little shading and I think I might have to put a few panels at different angles. But I wondered if it was better to charge the battery with DC instead of converting it back and forth.
 
Very cool story on your EV VW bug.

Jehugarcia has now converted two VW busses and has several videos about them. His second one has a floor full of Tesla cells and an induction motor. The old one was more experimental with a brush motor and a few different kinds of batteries all piled together.

I have not gone EV yet, but I likely will. I have a decent DIY E-Bike, in need of a new battery pack, and I have a C-Max hybrid as my daily now. I finally put on brake pads at 175,000 miles, but they still had about 40% left. Got to love regen braking. It is still averaging over 41 MPG and goes over 500 miles on every tank. My cost per mile is not much more than an EV. I am looking at some plug in hybrids, I am still spoiled by the range with some gas. The new RAV4 Prime looks amazing. 600 mile range, 41 miles on EV only, and 0-60 in under 6 seconds.
 
Jehugarcia has now converted two VW busses and has several videos about them. His second one has a floor full of Tesla cells and an induction motor.
I never met Jehu even though our paths crossed when I lived in LA. His first conversion was with the same HPEV AC motor and he used the same 100Ahr Winstons. He has done a lot of interesting videos. For a brief period Jack Rickard was collaborating with him.
 
The guy who is going to install my system likes Enphase micro inverters. And I was thinking I would just put them on all the panels. I have a little shading and I think I might have to put a few panels at different angles. But I wondered if it was better to charge the battery with DC instead of converting it back and forth.

Enphase does have a great product. After all my research, I went with them, I do have a small shading issue now, I had a bad on at the end of last year, I ended up cutting down 3 palm trees that just grew way too fast. Even with horrible shading, 3/4 of my array was still producing full power with the separate inverters. The micros are the most efficient and putting the solar power into your house. The only issue is if you produce more than you use, it is going out the grid. Not a big deal, I have been doing that for a year, and you do get some credit for it. And of course, you have no backup power in the grid fails.

This is where the hybrid setup comes in. How often do you have a power failure? Is there a reason to think it will get worse? How much power will you need during a power failure? And how long will you need the power for?

There are a few different off grid power calculator to help figure out the load you need to supply. I went with a bigger inverter so I have room to grow if this does end up being more important. I figured I would need at least 10 KwH of storage to make it worth doing. For less than the cost of the Enphase Encharge10, I am getting 17 KwH's of surplus batteries and all the gear to connect the system including the Schneider XW-Pro inverter. But I have to do a lot of the engineering myself. There are contractors that will do this for you, but you will be paying there time to work it out as well. If your power rarely fails, can you get by with a UPS to run the fridge? Do you want to be able to back feed the grid off your battery bank? I almost went with a Schneider SW, they have a 4000 watt unit for less than half the price, but it can't ever push power out the input terminals, it will only feed your essential load panel. If you expect to run off the batteries often, then a DC coupled system will be more efficient. Panels to battery, then one inverter to loads. The solar to micro inverter to loads is more efficient to just power the loads directly. But if it has to go Solar, to micro to AC, then AC to DC to battery, the again, battery DC to AC to loads, there is more loss. When my grid is up, I expect to move less than 1/3 of my power to the battery when I am making more than I use. So most of my power is straight from the Enphase micros. The XW is a huge UPS unit for when the power fails. The 5 to 10 KwH's I can store and use later each day is just a bonus to help offset the cost.

I tend to over think and research things to death before I spend this kind of money. It all depends on your own use case and how important each function is and if the cost for that function is worth it. When I first planned the solar, I really didn't think storage was going to be a big deal, and I had hoped the Enphase batteries would do the job if I decided I wanted them later. In a year and a half, things changed a lot. The power pricing changed on me, and late last year they started the "Public Safety Power Shutoff" to try and reduce fire hazards. Then toss in a pandemic and riots, and now I want a little more security for my power. I really wanted to go with Enphase Ensemble, but the numbers just didn't work out right for me. The sale on the XW at Real Good (altE store) and the deal on the batteries made the choice easier.
 
SCE has been showing me my running total each month, and it is $540 energy cost at the end of 11 months now.
If I understand you correctly and that is your positive NEM balance it will be due at True Up. In that case the $0.02 wholesale rate haircut won't affect you unless that $540 is a credit balance (negative). I still get an SCE bill on a rental with solar because I rented it with utilities paid. If I can help decipher your bill let me know?
 
There are contractors that will do this for you, but you will be paying there time to work it out as well. If your power rarely fails, can you get by with a UPS to run the fridge? Do you want to be able to back feed the grid off your battery bank? I almost went with a Schneider SW, they have a 4000 watt unit for less than half the price, but it can't ever push power out the input terminals, it will only feed your essential load panel. If you expect to run off the batteries often, then a DC coupled system will be more efficient. Panels to battery, then one inverter to loads. The solar to micro inverter to loads is more efficient to just power the loads directly. But if it has to go Solar, to micro to AC, then AC to DC to battery, the again, battery DC to AC to loads, there is more loss. When my grid is up, I expect to move less than 1/3 of my power to the battery when I am making more than I use. So most of my power is straight from the Enphase micros. The XW is a huge UPS unit for when the power fails. The 5 to 10 KwH's I can store and use later each day is just a bonus to help offset the cost.

My friend is a solar installer. He and the electrician he works with agreed to install my system. They said they would install whatever I buy but I think it would be best to keep it as simple as possible. I too got a bunch of quotes and the battery quotes were off the planet.
My service is net metering but who knows how long that will last. Since it looks like I'm better off having my batteries powered by DC, the micro inverter to non micro inverter ratio Sol-Ark recommends might be workable for me.
Sorry for all the edits. I'm in Clearwater Florida so power outages are common.
 
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If I understand you correctly and that is your positive NEM balance it will be due at True Up. In that case the $0.02 wholesale rate haircut won't affect you unless that $540 is a credit balance (negative). I still get an SCE bill on a rental with solar because I rented it with utilities paid. If I can help decipher your bill let me know?

I owe SCE $540 as of month 11, and another $120 or so as this month feels like we are in hell. Also add in this months taxes etc. and my end of year bill is going to be almost $700.

I will look it over and try to figure it all out, but I may take you up on your offer to look it over. Hopefully they start looking better once the XW is running.
 
My friend is a solar installer. He and the electrician he works with agreed to install my system. They said they would install whatever I buy but I think it would be best to keep it as simple as possible. I too got a bunch of quotes and the battery quotes were off the planet.
My service is net metering but who knows how long that will last. Since it looks like I'm better off having my batteries powered by DC, the micro inverter to non micro inverter ratio Sol-Ark recommends might be workable for me.
Sorry for all the edits. I'm in Clearwater Florida so power outages are common.

Having a legal installer friend can make a huge difference. There are a lot of shady dealers out there. The bigger the company, the shadier they seem to get. "Oh, no money down, just pay for the power!" Those deals are all a huge rip off.

If you have a lot of outages, then the Skybox or Sol-Ark can be a better fit. Have you done a power budget to figure out how much you need?
 
@GXMnow do you have any other links showing the 6848 with Enphase? I have 10.5kw on 3 strings using IQ7+ from Enphase.

Also do you know the max the 6848 Pro can accept from Enphase GT?
 
My Schneider XW-Pro is here!
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The Gateway is tiny, smaller than I expected. The XW-Pro also looks small, but it does match the space I drew on the wall, but man that thing is heavy for such a compact box. 125 pounds does not sound too bad, but with the rather slim chassis, it just does not feel right. The whole pallet with the conduit box and gateway came in at 177 pounds. Thank you Real Good for the free shipping deal. It got here in less than a week over the weekend.

I powered up the gateway and I am going to configure it for my network now.
 
Having a legal installer friend can make a huge difference. There are a lot of shady dealers out there. The bigger the company, the shadier they seem to get. "Oh, no money down, just pay for the power!" Those deals are all a huge rip off.

If you have a lot of outages, then the Skybox or Sol-Ark can be a better fit. Have you done a power budget to figure out how much you need?

Solar sales people are shady for sure. I am planning to install about 10kw of panels. I might go up to something like 11.7kw because I think that is the highest I can go without extra liability insurance. My daily consumption now is about 35kw per average. But my wife and I plan to get electric cars and it seems like I'm better off over sizing now than adding more later.

Congrats on your new toys.
 
@GXMnow do you have any other links showing the 6848 with Enphase? I have 10.5kw on 3 strings using IQ7+ from Enphase.

Also do you know the max the 6848 Pro can accept from Enphase GT?

I have seen a few links and even some of the Schneider videos mention AC coupling with Enphase.
I just search with the terms "Schneider"+"XW"+"Enphase" and you should find pages and videos.

They recommend staying below the inverter power, so 6800 watts of micro inverters on the XW series 6848. They did not make any distinction if they are Rule 21 or not like the Skybox does. The internal contactors in the XW are rated to pass up to 60 amps through the box. So while on grid it could handle more, the issue is when you go into backup/off grid mode, the inverter output needs to be able to control all of the current from the AC coupled grid dependent inverter(s). One way of doing it without messing up the Envoy, is by adding a relay to disconnect a group of the iQ inverters when the grid goes down. The Envoy will still see the live inverters and report the others as offline. When the grid returns, they connect and take 5 minutes to start making power again. Since you have a 10.5 KW array, you need to drop out 3700 watts worth when the grid is down. The 10.5 KW works out to 44 amps, so it is safe through the 60 amp contactor while the grid is live.
 
I owe SCE $540 as of month 11, and another $120 or so as this month feels like we are in hell.
It may take a combination of your hybrid inverter and a few more panels. It really depends on what the usage is for each of the TOU periods. I don't think they give to a total for the year by Peak and Off Peak but you can quickly add up the totals from your monthly bills. . I would add up kWhs and dollar totals for each period to see in total where that total is coming from. That would be a good place to start to give you a clue about how much load shifting will do.
 
In the last month, I realized SCE no longer has the PDF's online for the past monthly bills. I was going to try and look over the numbers, but the files are gone. I only downloaded a few of them to my PC, the rest I read online thinking I could check them later, Oops! I can get the daily usage for a while back, but not what they charged me.
 
I spent the last few hours trying to figure out how everything is going to mount up. Schneider says to NEVER drill any new holes in the conduit box, use only the provided knock outs. I got it all to work, but I don't like where the battery cables are coming out. I may have to block off one of the knockouts I opened and use the one on the end for the battery cables. I though the 2 inch on the bottom was far enough right, but the cable hang in front of the right and of my essential loads panel where it is now. The further right knockout is a metric size. Doubt I will find DC cable clamps in the US to fit that opening. I was originally going to use two 1/2 inch cable clamps. One for the positive cable, and one for the negative, but I would have had to make new knock out holes for them. And Schneider says NO!!!

To get a bit more clearance for the cable bend, I am putting the clamp inside the conduit box. Still not ideal, but I have seen worse.

IMG_8328.JPG IMG_8327.JPG

I really want to just open up that metric knockout to the right size, it would be perfect.
 
I got the mounting plate all bolted up on the wall.
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Because of the breaker panel on the other side of the wall, the studs are not on normal spacing. The 2 screws on the right hit the left edge of the stud, so I put them in at a slight angle to be sure they are solid into the wood. All of the bolts are 1/4 inch diameter. The ones into the studs are 3..5 inches long. They do go through the 3/4 inch plywood, and 1/2 inch of drywall, and then into the studs. I did drill pilot holes to make sure it didn't split the old wood. The next stud to the left is just past the middle of the plate. I drilled 4 new holes and they are straight into middle of the stud. The other 6 screws at 1 inch long threaded into the plywood, also with pilot holes. Each bolt is rated for more than the weight of the inverter, so I think it will be fine, even if we get another 7.0 quake. But to be extra safe, I think I will still put a safety cable on it. If it tears off the wall, it could do some serious damage.

My brother is coming over tonight to help me hang it after the sun is down, it is 107F in the shade now. Might actually be hotter in the garage. I am dripping sweat just drilling the holes. I am glad I got the larger 6800 watt XW as that rating is at 25C (77F). It has to be derated a bit as it get's this hot. The 4400 watt SW would be melting at 4,000 watts in this heat.

The temp sensor in my battery bank is reporting 38C (100.4F) right now, but that is all the way in the garage by the door to the house. It feels much hotter as I get down towards the overhead door. The inverter is about 5 feet inside.

We have been warned we may have a rolling black out anytime in the next 6 days. I got to get this thing wired up.
 
I got it up on the wall, with a bit of help from my brother, and a lot of grunting. Lifting it was not too bad, but getting the mounting rail lined up while holding up the weight, is not a trivial task.

I connected the battery bank and lit it up. The output was putting out 118 / 236 volt split phase with only the battery connected. I have not done any settings yet, and it was reporting the battery between 4 and all 5 LED's and the BMS says 79% so it is pretty close. I was pulling about 1 amp from the battery to fire it up, but I have nothing else connected so I shut it back down again, I will get the grid and some load connected tomorrow and do a basic configuration.

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