diy solar

diy solar

Air gap for heat to escape?

discern

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Joined
Feb 12, 2024
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12
Location
Montgomery
See below... Im designing a custome box for 4x LF304 out of 1/2" plywood. I plan on leaving an air gap beloe the removable top panel and the side walls to allow heat to escap. Currently I have a 1/4". Is this enough? Is it even nessecary? Lets assume I might use the full 150A worth that the BMS can output for short to medium periods of time. Will be in a van in the southeast.
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You are probably better off using any extra space for insulation to keep heat out. Keeping batteries cool here in the southeast is very hard to do.
 
If you leave a gap - dust or bugs or something that don't belong in there could create a problem?
I have 7 DIY boxes, none have any air gap or venting. But I don't live in a very hot location, well most of the time it isn't hot.
 
I use a good small 4 inch exhaust fan on the battery box near the top with an input for air near the bottom as a supply opening for cooler air.. I can see a temp drop of about 10-15 degrees F on the batts..

In the summer when pumping , my batts raise the temp above ambient in an insulated box a good bit…I don’t like them to get over 70 -75 ish…maybe 80.

In winter cold their heat created is a benefit in most cases…so turn the fan off ……

use a lazar temp prob and check what happens when they are running at mid point or heavy load in summer ….it’s more than I expected …

If your batts are in a cool basment or somthing you may be fine with nothing added. If in climate controlled area ,even better.
That’s just my experience…

J.
 
In the summer when pumping , my batts raise the temp above ambient in an insulated box a good bit…I don’t like them to get over 70 -75 ish…maybe 80.

Isn't 80°F about 27°C, pretty much all batteries are rated at 25°C so I wouldn't worry if they get up to that at all, but 45°C+ (113°F) yes definitely need to be thinking about cooling going over that.

I insulated my battery chest, and put a single 27w heat pad in there, which has kept them at a stable 20-22°C all winter, I may put a fan in for summer though, as the chest itself is in a steel boat which can get hot in the sun with extended 30°C + days.

@OP not sure if the air gap is that useful, maybe insulation / extraction is though.
 
Isn't 80°F about 27°C, pretty much all batteries are rated at 25°C so I wouldn't worry if they get up to that at all, but 45°C+ (113°F) yes definitely need to be thinking about cooling going over that.

I insulated my battery chest, and put a single 27w heat pad in there, which has kept them at a stable 20-22°C all winter, I may put a fan in for summer though, as the chest itself is in a steel boat which can get hot in the sun with extended 30°C + days.

@OP not sure if the air gap is that useful, maybe insulation / extraction is though.
Yep..that’s about where I want them to stay…about at STC +/-…..
I lean toward staying cool when possible.
Your right….a fan is about 10x more effective than just convection and a vent…

J.
 
I am thinking an aluminum heat sink built into the case with a fan on it would be better than air gap.
Unless the batteries see heavy loads.
High ampdraw can build heat.
Otherwise, you need cooling from the environment in warm climate, ventilation would warm the bank instead of cooling it.
A heat sink in a water bath, or in an ac plenum would be a benefit.
 
The BMS prob will get hotter than the battery.

Can you put a hinge on the lid so you could prop it open if you see temps climb above 30c?

JBD and JK have multiple temp probs makes monitoring temps real handy.
 
I am thinking an aluminum heat sink built into the case with a fan on it would be better than air gap.
Unless the batteries see heavy loads.
High ampdraw can build heat.
Otherwise, you need cooling from the environment in warm climate, ventilation would warm the bank instead of cooling it.
A heat sink in a water bath, or in an ac plenum would be a benefit.
I don’t have a large system .. and it’s mounted in a smallish trailer …..as you suggest auxiliary cooling of the environment is the path I took during the summer months…( when needed)…

in normal weather here 65 - 70 F in summer the fan and vent works great alone …but a trailer can get warm like a boat.. or car in the sunshine…and if ambient outside air gets up to 80 , all the electronic stuff gets pretty damn warm ….

As I have said before I mounted a small efficient A/C unit on the main trailer compartment wall….. it brings the temp down to about 60 -70 inside.

It cycles off and on and uses little power a day....and only in the 3 months of summer…
Between the batts , and the gear, alot of heat “can “ be generated if the system is running at half power or higher.
9 months a year I don’t need any help cooling anything and in winter it is pretty much self heating from the equipment , if running some gear.

That’s the best fix I have come up with…
 
Isn't 80°F about 27°C, pretty much all batteries are rated at 25°C so I wouldn't worry if they get up to that at all, but 45°C+ (113°F) yes definitely need to be thinking about cooling going over that.

I insulated my battery chest, and put a single 27w heat pad in there, which has kept them at a stable 20-22°C all winter, I may put a fan in for summer though, as the chest itself is in a steel boat which can get hot in the sun with extended 30°C + days.

@OP not sure if the air gap is that useful, maybe insulation / extraction is though.

What kind of insulation you have used and how thick layers? What is the minimum temperature for the 27 W heater to still be enough? Any recommendations for fans?

I have just started initial planning of an insulated battery box with heating capability for winters and air cooling with fans for summertime. Boxes are going to be outdoors so in addition rain, snow, humidity, dust, etc. must be taken into consideration.

In my case the minimum outdoor temperatures are -30...-25 °C (-22...-13 °F) and the maximum temperatures +25...+30 °C (+77...+86 °F), these being the extremes.
 
I like to use thicker plywood (5/8 or 3/4) for the box parts that will accept screws into their edges (ie the sides), but use thinner ply like 1/2" or 3/8" for the top where the screws will just pass through the piece into the edges of the box sides below it. The thicker ply is better to prevent any splitting, pre-drilling small pilot holes and using smaller diameter screws works too.
 
@discern - I am roughly 150 miles south of you. Cooling cells due to self heating has not been a problem for me, but keeping them cool from ambient temperatures has. Here is a plot of temperatures inside a small, poorly insulated, enclosed room where my solar charge controller lives. The south wall gets direct sunlight, so the temperatures inside the room (CTemp and LTemp) rise with solar loading during the day and fall with ambient outside temperature at night. I do not have summer data for this installation yet, but that is coming soon....

Twice this past month the indoor room temperature has gotten over 96 degrees, which is warmer than I want my batteries to get. They live in a box in a shallow hole in the ground under the floor, and they have about three inches of foam insulation above them. Notice how the batteries (T2) stay in a much tighter temperature range than the room because they are never in direct sunlight and have direct contact with the soil and its huge thermal mass.

The point is that a van in the south will almost always be too warm due to solar loading. Except for the few nights of freezing temperatures, your issue is keeping things cool, not warm. Internal heating is negligible compared to solar load. Intentionally adding a vent to allow 120 degree air to get to your batteries will work against you. Perhaps you could instrument the van to watch temperatures before you decide how and where you will keep your batteries.

March_Temps.PNG
 
I like to use thicker plywood (5/8 or 3/4) for the box parts that will accept screws into their edges (ie the sides), but use thinner ply like 1/2" or 3/8" for the top where the screws will just pass through the piece into the edges of the box sides below it. The thicker ply is better to prevent any splitting, pre-drilling small pilot holes and using smaller diameter screws works too.
For those still talking about the mechanical strength of 1/2" , the box will be contructed using SS all-thread passing through the end plates, not screws at panel edges. At the bottom will be SS Tnuts with a long SS bolt passing through the top panel. I 100% gaurantee it will be stronger than 3/4 wil screws at the edges. My questions is about heat only as Im probably not as knowledgeable about electrical characteristics and heat as many of the forum. But I do have two mechanical engineering degrees and own a full woodworking/cabinet shot.

1710691154260.png
 
@discern - I am roughly 150 miles south of you. Cooling cells due to self heating has not been a problem for me, but keeping them cool from ambient temperatures has. Here is a plot of temperatures inside a small, poorly insulated, enclosed room where my solar charge controller lives. The south wall gets direct sunlight, so the temperatures inside the room (CTemp and LTemp) rise with solar loading during the day and fall with ambient outside temperature at night. I do not have summer data for this installation yet, but that is coming soon....

Twice this past month the indoor room temperature has gotten over 96 degrees, which is warmer than I want my batteries to get. They live in a box in a shallow hole in the ground under the floor, and they have about three inches of foam insulation above them. Notice how the batteries (T2) stay in a much tighter temperature range than the room because they are never in direct sunlight and have direct contact with the soil and its huge thermal mass.

The point is that a van in the south will almost always be too warm due to solar loading. Except for the few nights of freezing temperatures, your issue is keeping things cool, not warm. Internal heating is negligible compared to solar load. Intentionally adding a vent to allow 120 degree air to get to your batteries will work against you. Perhaps you could instrument the van to watch temperatures before you decide how and where you will keep your batteries.

Great info thanks!
 
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