It's Working!!! Sol-Ark 15K, 33.52kW with 67 Panels AC+DC PV, 25kW SOK Batteries - Photo Diary

[kolek]

PVWatts say I should be able to make over 80kWh during December.

I'm confused about this. Your solar array is 33.5kw, if you plug that into PVWatts, assuming you're living even in a super sunny place like Las Vegas, that would be 58,921 kWh/Year, but you're getting 80,000 just for December?

 

[Ryushin]

I guess I'm from a different era, but to me it's sad to see grown men seeking permission and approval from their wives, and then getting beaten up about a solar project they worked really hard on for whatever reason. This reminds me a little of the thread with the guy wringing his hands because his solar project uses some extension cords and his wife doesn't like them. Is this universal nowadays? Maybe I'm just out of the loop.

Does it work both ways? What if the wife wants to go to Paris for her holiday, or she wants spend more than you spent on the solar system to buy a pink Lexus. Does she ask you for permission? Is she telling her friends "My husband gave me the go ahead to buy a pink Lexus. I got all the extras, it's loaded. Ended up costing 40% over budget and he's unhappy about it, but I think he'll be more approving after he's had a ride in it."

And it's sad that you did such a beautiful job on that solar install, and your wife can't just sit back and give thanks and appreciate what a wonderful job you did. How about "Wow, how lucky I am to have a genius for a husband who can build a system like that!"

Don't get me wrong. I've never met your wife and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm sure your wife is great. But me personally, I guess I come from a different generation. Of course I discuss things with my partner, and I take her input and ideas, especially if it's a big project or something expensive, but I don't ask for permission. And my partner is super appreciative and excited about having a lower electric bill. Anyway, congratulations on a really beautiful job!

My wife is very good with the finances and she takes care of the bills. She is a saver for sure. Our finances are tied together and we live frugally. We work together on all of our spending. We don't drive new cars. Hers is from 2007 and mine is 2003. Through her saving and my hard work, we paid off our house in under 7 years. It's always harder to save money than to spend it. To be perfectly straightforward, if I had carte blanche with the money, I might have a few more toys but we would not be as far ahead in life either. My wife grew up very poor and she is scared to ever to have to live like that again.

So yea, we discussed the solar and we both have to agree to spend the money. Not just one of us that does what we want. We are married and share in everything. She sees what is happening in the world today, and the cost of living going up. So spending $55K could go to pay a lot of bills for a lot of years.

My wife is amazed at the high quality of my work and all the DIY stuff that I do. She is appreciative. You should see the three years it took to build the 1000 sq/ft deck with a covered roof and she loves it: https://cloud.chrisdos.com/s/GGq6c9JeqLpqzCz

Please understand that my wife and I love each other dearly. We are in this together and we both see what is happening in the world today and the need to prepare for it. I may have just spent the money sooner for prepping than later. But in a way, with inverter technology maturing so fast the way it is, I feel we have a much better system then if I build it five years ago.

 

[kolek]

Please understand that my wife

Sure, whatever works for you is fine. I'm just offering a different perspective. Please keep doing what works for you.

So spending $55K

Your system cost $55k? Seems reasonable for what you ended up with.

 

[Ryushin]

I'm confused about this. Your solar array is 33.5kw, if you plug that into PVWatts, assuming you're living even in a super sunny place like Las Vegas, that would be 58,921 kWh/Year, but you're getting 80,000 just for December?

PVWatts shows the following for my system:

Total of All Solar Arrays​
Month​	Daily Average POA Irradiance (kWh/m2/day)​	DC Array Output (kWh)​	AC System Output (kWh)​
1​	4.86​	2,748,704.86​	2,611,230.65​
2​	4.90​	3,174,893.60​	3,023,299.86​
3​	4.94​	4,414,423.45​	4,206,623.52​
4​	4.98​	4,921,186.03​	4,686,184.91​
5​	5.00​	5,466,883.11​	5,213,085.17​
6​	5.02​	5,464,943.53​	5,215,656.87​
7​	5.02​	5,402,630.14​	5,153,601.99​
8​	5.01​	4,957,644.22​	4,727,120.88​
9​	5.00​	4,422,971.39​	4,218,660.25​
10​	4.99​	3,619,621.14​	3,446,903.91​
11​	5.00​	2,917,088.57​	2,775,195.52​
12​	5.01​	2,422,699.54​	2,295,855.64​
Annual Total​	4.98​	49,933,689.59​	47,573,419.16​

So 2295855÷31 give us about 75kWh a day in December. I've noticed that I'm not producing what PV Watts say I should be producing. I have a 14% losses according to PVWatts, but I think it might be closer to 20%. Just did not think my system would have that high of losses though. I'll have to see how it pans out over a year.

I've attached my monthly energy generation so far.

Edit: Entered data into PVWats as watts instead of kW. So the above information is off by 1000. Keeping wrong there for posterity as it reflects the post below it as being wrong and my brain was .... broken.

 

[Ryushin]

Your system cost $55k? Seems reasonable for what you ended up with.

Yea, for DIY for sure. Can't even imagine what a solar company would charge me for this system. Probably more than a $100K.

 

[kolek]

I guess I'm misunderstanding. How many kw is your solar array in total? 33.5kw?

 

[kolek]

Checking again PVwatts.
Assuming Castle Rock, Co
It would take an array that is 850kw (850,000 watts) to generate 80,000kwh in December.
Your largest panels are 550W. You would need 1546 panels of that size to generate 80,000kwh in December.

No? I dunno, maybe I'm confused. lol. I've been wrong before.

 

[kolek]

If your array is 33.5kw, according to PVwatts you'll be generating 3,151 kwh for December. Which is still a massive number.

 

[Ryushin]

If your array is 33.5kw, according to PVwatts you'll be generating 3,151 kwh for December. Which is still a massive number.

Not all the strings face the same direction. I've attached the spreadsheet for each array, according to Greenlancer's layout, also note, there is no Array 5, I have on idea why Greenlancer skipped 5 and went from 4 to 6.

PVWatts_Monthly_Projected_Output.xlsx

Nextcloud - a safe home for all your data

cloud.chrisdos.com

I've attached the panel layout from Greenlancer as well. But yea, the system is large and can produce enough even during December to cover all my house loads. Don't know what it will be once I add a 4-ton heat pump.

Edit: Fixed problem with spreadsheet with data that was inputted into PVWats as watts instead of kW.

 

[themizz]

Not all the strings face the same direction. I've attached the spreadsheet for each array, according to Greenlancer's layout, also note, there is no Array 5, I have on idea why Greenlancer skipped 5 and went from 4 to 6.

PVWatts_Monthly_Projected_Output.xlsx

Nextcloud - a safe home for all your data

cloud.chrisdos.com

I've attached the panel layout from Greenlancer as well. But yea, the system is large and can produce enough even during December to cover all my house loads. Don't know what it will be once I add a 4-ton heat pump.

@Ryushin - Looks like you have a 'comma' instead of a decimal. For example, instead of 3.220 kW in array 1 you have 3,220 kW... a big difference that is throwing your numbers off.

 

[Ryushin]

@Ryushin - Looks like you have a 'comma' instead of a decimal. For example, instead of 3.220 kW in array 1 you have 3,220 kW... a big difference that is throwing your numbers off.

I don't know why PVWatts says it's kWh when their numbers are just Wh. The original PVWatts exported csv files have kWh in them and I just copied and pasted those cells. Unless I'm not seeing something.

Disconnected us from the grid yesterday just before the CME hit. Had a couple of G5s so far. I don't think it's going to be large enough to do any real damage to the grid this time, but who knows.

 

[kolek]

I don't know why PVWatts says it's kWh when their numbers are just Wh.

The numbers on PVWatts are labled in kWh, please see for yourself in screenprints above.

Let's put it another way:
Your electric bill says something like:
"This month's bill is 2136 Kwh."
Doesn't it seem unlikely you would be generating 80,000 Kwh in a month, which would be 40X your monthly consumption?
That would imply that every day, your system is producing more than 1 month's worth of electric power.
Anyway, I'm outta here. Nice system bro.

 

[Jbird905]

I'm confused about this. Your solar array is 33.5kw, if you plug that into PVWatts, assuming you're living even in a super sunny place like Las Vegas, that would be 58,921 kWh/Year, but you're getting 80,000 just for December?

I think this one comment really mixed things up, by using kWh and Wh, when it was only being talked about in kWh.

Ryushin said "PVWatts say I should be able to make over 80kWh during December." - He did not say he was going to make 80,000 kWh, he said 80 kWh. Somehow, you went from talking in kWh to ending in Wh in that one comment.

I don't know why PVWatts says it's kWh when their numbers are just Wh. The original PVWatts exported csv files have kWh in them and I just copied and pasted those cells. Unless I'm not seeing something.

Ryushin, I think when you input your DC size in PV Watts, you might have put in the Wh number, instead of kWh, which is making things look weird in the CSV. For example, when I put in your array 1 just now, I put in 3.22 for the DC size (instead of 3220) and the screenshot attached is what I get. It's very similar data, but PV Watts did output it in kWh as expected. I remember getting mixed up back when planning my stuff. I would put in Wh and get results like I would generate a million kWh. Until I realized I was doing the math (400 watt panels X 40 panels = 16,000 watts DC size), but PV Watts was asking for 16 kWh, not 16,000.

Sorry if any of that is not needed and not trying to over-explain anything. Just trying to help, because your spreadsheet is great, so I was thinking that re-downloading PV Watts in actual kWh values might help it look more "normal."

 

[Ryushin]

I think this one comment really mixed things up, by using kWh and Wh, when it was only being talked about in kWh.

Ryushin said "PVWatts say I should be able to make over 80kWh during December." - He did not say he was going to make 80,000 kWh, he said 80 kWh. Somehow, you went from talking in kWh to ending in Wh in that one comment.


Ryushin, I think when you input your DC size in PV Watts, you might have put in the Wh number, instead of kWh, which is making things look weird in the CSV. For example, when I put in your array 1 just now, I put in 3.22 for the DC size (instead of 3220) and the screenshot attached is what I get. It's very similar data, but PV Watts did output it in kWh as expected. I remember getting mixed up back when planning my stuff. I would put in Wh and get results like I would generate a million kWh. Until I realized I was doing the math (400 watt panels X 40 panels = 16,000 watts DC size), but PV Watts was asking for 16 kWh, not 16,000.

Sorry if any of that is not needed and not trying to over-explain anything. Just trying to help, because your spreadsheet is great, so I was thinking that re-downloading PV Watts in actual kWh values might help it look more "normal."

Yea, that is probably where I went wrong with PVWatts. I just went and re-entered everything in kW instead of W and it all looks correct now. So bad info in, bad info out. LOL. I'll make an edit for what I did wrong. I guess I had too many numbers going around in my head.

 

[1201]

Yea, that is probably where I went wrong with PVWatts. I just went and re-entered everything in kW instead of W and it all looks correct now. So bad info in, bad info out. LOL. I'll make an edit for what I did wrong. I guess I had too many numbers going around in my head.

I thought you meant you should be able to make 80kwh/day during december

 

[Ryushin]

I thought you meant you should be able to make 80kwh/day during december

That is nearly correct. 2422.70÷31 = 78.15 kWh during December.

Total of All Solar Arrays​
Month​	Daily Average POA Irradiance (kWh/m2/day)​	DC Array Output (kWh)​	AC System Output (kWh)​
1​	4.86​	2,748.71​	2,611.23​
2​	4.90​	3,174.89​	3,023.30​
3​	4.94​	4,414.42​	4,206.62​
4​	4.98​	4,921.19​	4,686.18​
5​	5.00​	5,466.88​	5,213.09​
6​	5.02​	5,464.95​	5,215.66​
7​	5.02​	5,402.63​	5,153.60​
8​	5.01​	4,957.64​	4,727.12​
9​	5.00​	4,422.97​	4,218.66​
10​	4.99​	3,619.62​	3,446.90​
11​	5.00​	2,917.09​	2,775.20​
12​	5.01​	2,422.70​	2,295.86​
Annual Total​	4.98​	49,933.69​	47,573.42​

 

[1201]

That is nearly correct. 2422.70÷31 = 78.15 kWh during December.

Total of All Solar Arrays​
Month​	Daily Average POA Irradiance (kWh/m2/day)​	DC Array Output (kWh)​	AC System Output (kWh)​
1​	4.86​	2,748.71​	2,611.23​
2​	4.90​	3,174.89​	3,023.30​
3​	4.94​	4,414.42​	4,206.62​
4​	4.98​	4,921.19​	4,686.18​
5​	5.00​	5,466.88​	5,213.09​
6​	5.02​	5,464.95​	5,215.66​
7​	5.02​	5,402.63​	5,153.60​
8​	5.01​	4,957.64​	4,727.12​
9​	5.00​	4,422.97​	4,218.66​
10​	4.99​	3,619.62​	3,446.90​
11​	5.00​	2,917.09​	2,775.20​
12​	5.01​	2,422.70​	2,295.86​
Annual Total​	4.98​	49,933.69​	47,573.42​

So I don't know where the other party got the idea you meant 80,000 kWh for the month

 

[Ryushin]

So I'm going to expand my battery storage now. After the CME and us disconnecting from the grid during that time I had to run the generator a bit to get us through a morning rain. My wife really does not like how loud the generator is and I'm like, when the grid is down, we'll have power, I don't care how loud it is, within reason. Heck, when there is a power outage, the neighbors won't care either if I give them an extension cord.

On Friday I ordered three more SOK batteries from @HighTechLab and Current Connected. That is the minimum I would need to get through the longer winter days, based on what I saw this last winter. My wife actually came out of the blue and said to order two batteries after the CME, but after seeing the usage numbers, said to get three. I'm quite pleased with being able to get three batteries right now after spending 5K on the heat pump water heater.

I want to expand the storage vertically. The battery rack from Current Connected can handle five batteries, so I'll need to go with something different.

I ordered RackSolutions 55U server rack (102.5" tall) with the 20" depth kit from PC Nation as they had the cheapest price with shipping. RackSolutions themselves is having to charge an additional $300 fee that FedEx has started charging them for oversized items, probably to go via freight instead. The rack is rated to hold 3000lbs, so the batteries at a 100lbs each, shouldn't be a problem. The rack is two weeks out from shipping, but I'm fine with that to save $300.

55U TALL, RACK-111 UPRIGHT POST KIT. REQUIRES RACK-111 DEPTH KIT TO COMPLETE RAC

Rack Solutions 55U Post Kit for 111 Open Frame Rack

www.pcnation.com

Rack Solutions 20in Depth and 24in Width Kit for 111 Open Frame Rack

Rack Solutions 20in Depth and 24in Width Kit for 111 Open Frame Rack

www.pcnation.com

Finding rails to support 100lbs is not so easy. My research led me to the CyberPower rails as they make UPSs and they are inexpensive to everything else out there and seem to be a perfect lengh to fit the 20" deep rack:

https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-4POSTRAIL-4-Post-Universal-Mount/dp/B00TCELZTK/

I hope with these rails and the SOK batteries I can stack them right on top of each other. Really depends on how close to the 4U of space the SOK batteries are. If there is a 1/16" of space between them, I should be able to stack them right on top of each other. If this works out correclty, I should be able to get 13 SOK batteries in that rack. I'll be securing the top of the rack to the studs and concrete floor, so baring a earthquake, it shouldn't go anywhere.

So going to get bring the battery storage up to 40kWh with the potential of 65kWh in the future. Once everything is in place, I'll update the first post with the parts.

 

[1201]

nice!! for the amount of pv you have even 40kwh of battery is on the low side

 

[Ryushin]

nice!! for the amount of pv you have even 40kwh of battery is on the low side

Oh, I agree there. I want to get to 100kWh. At some point spending more money doesn't get us any more than what we have now and we have diminishing returns. If I can get through the night on battery and we have sun or non rainy cloud day, the system should be able to charge everything back up before the night again. We have the generator if everything goes south. We will look at our finances at the end of the year to see about adding more battery storage to eventually fill the rack, which I hope will be able to hold 13 batteries.