Just Learned: Most Victron Multiplus II's *Do Not* Support Parallel Operation

[AlaskanNoob]

About a year ago (or a little more) we bought equipment for a solar install we'd hoped to have installed last summer. But Alaska got record setting rain that Summer...it didn't stop. And it threw a big wrench in our off grid plans. Two of the components we ordered were two Victron Multiplus II 48/8000s. The Multiplus II comes in five different sizes. 3K, 5K, 8K, 10K, and 15K. We bought two of the 8K models after the dealer confirmed they would allow us to future proof in case we wanted to expand power later. The dealer specifically told us that two 8000 units could be operated in parallel and why wouldn't he have? After all, the manual made no mention of any exceptions for the 8000 model and it would seems odd that the 3K and 5K could operate in parallel, while the majority of the models could not.

In fact, the manual:

On page 3 mentions the ability to parallel with no exceptions for specific models:


On Page 15 discusses parallel operation without listing any exceptions:


The manual even shows two different diagrams (one for 3K and 5K models and a different diagram for 8K-15K models) where it states that the VE.BUS (port E) is used for parallel operation:



The only thing in the manual that I can find (now that I'm specifically looking for it) which could support the idea that the 48/8000 model does not support parallel is this grid, where "parallel" is left off of the functions for the 8000 model. But this contradicts the section above, and it missing doesn't suggest parallel can't be done, but rather that it isn't done through the VE.BUS:



But recently, in a thread on the Victron Community Page about connecting a generator, somebody brought to my attention that the the Datasheet, states that the 8K, 10K, and 15K models (most of them) do not support parallel operation.


I contacted the dealer and he said he's looking into it. So at this point, I have no idea if the two units we have will support parallel operation or not. It seems beyond strange to me that you can parallel up to 6 x 48/5000 models and not 2 x 48/8000 models. I guess we'll see.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Bummer. I recall something about this discussed at community, but I can't recall the details.

Regardless, you have a Victron dealer that assured you that a product would work as needed, and they failed to deliver it. Sounds like they owe you a different option. Is there a reason you went with 230V units? Did you get an autotransformer too?

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Bummer. I recall something about this discussed at community, but I can't recall the details.

Regardless, you have a Victron dealer that assured you that a produce would work as needed, and they failed to deliver it. Sounds like they owe you a different option. Is there a reason you went with 230V units? Did you get an autotransformer too?

An honest mistake by the dealer if it turns out they can't be operated in parallel. I know Victron touts the training required for their dealers and all, but they can't hold a dealer accountable for that mistake (if it turns out to be one) given how their manual reads, at least in my opinion. In my view, if it turns out the more expensive models that make up the majority of the MultiPlus lineup can't operate in parallel operation, they should a) get rid of the parallel capability advertised and make a footnote that says "btw, 2 of our 5 models can also operate in parallel" or b) change the names of the 8K-15K models to something other than Multiplus II. That's too key a capability to mix and match like that as I see it.

We went with 230V units because we have a long distance to cover from the solar components to our cabin. About 700 feet. So we wanted to keep the voltage high. The dealer sold us the Victron AutoTransformer that can handle 100 amps. We also got a couple Lynx Distributors, a Cerbo-GX, and 2 x SmartSolar 450/200 MPPTs.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Jan Klumpenaar from Victron Sales just emailed me and said the Multiplus II 48/8000 cannot operate in parallel but that it will be able to do so in the future, although he had no timeline for that.

They really need to update their manual to reflect this limitation, stop advertising the parallel capability since three of the five models cannot parallel, and clearly specify this limitation in their data sheet since it's kind of easy to miss as is. And they need to get the word out to the dealers who are understandly confused.

Now I need to coordinate with the dealer to send these two units back for a solution that works.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

I just emailed the dealer and suggested we send back the 48/8000 units to him in exchange for a single 15K unit and him/Victron paying for shipping. The 15K unit is $1300 cheaper than 2 x 8K units so I would think this would be amenable to him. We won't be able to future proof, but this should at least get us rolling.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

I just emailed the dealer and suggested we send back the 48/8000 units to him in exchange for a single 15K unit and him/Victron paying for shipping. The 15K unit is $1300 cheaper than 2 x 8K units so I would think this would be amenable to him. We won't be able to future proof, but this should at least get us rolling.

Well, that wasn't amenable to him. Despite him specifically providing us the incorrect information that led to us purchasing those units, and despite us paying for the units to be shipped to Alaska in the first place (along with all the other gear), he said "I dont see any requirement for me to pay the shipping to return these or to return them in general." Not only is he unwilling to pay for shipping us the 15K unit to replace these units, he's also unwilling to pay for shipping him the two units back. He seems to think he's doing us a favor by allowing us to pay to ship them back to him.

So we won't get a replacement unit from him. At this point we just want him to take back the two units he sold us that don't do what he said they do. But even that is proving difficult since we have to apparently fork over even more money to fix his mistake.

I've contacted Victron to see if they can assist. They have committed to fixing their manual so hopefully they can help resolve this issue.

Here is the email discussion previous to us purchasing the units from the Dealer:

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 4:38 PM <Dealer> wrote:

You set it for 60 hz and 240v is standard. What’s different is it has no neural or 120 output. Hence the Autotransformer. You can stack parallel victron gear. If you wanted 2 8000s that would not be an issue. It would be 66A into the 100A auto transformer.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2022, at 2:38 PM, <AlaskanNoob> wrote:

Is the Multiplus you've quoted us designed for the North American market (240VAC/60Hz)?
On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:22 PM <AlaskanNoob> wrote:

For future proofing, if we want to have more than 8KW of power at our cabin at any one time (which as we think about loads doesn't seem very hard to do with a GSHP potentially taking up 3KW/hr) could we simply buy another Multiplus II and double them up to double the wattage?

If so, we might want to size our trenched wire accordingly which perhaps is what you meant by future proofing

 

[AlaskanNoob]

I sent an email to Victron's Regional Manager for North America as their website suggests. No response yet. Also the form filled out on the Victron website didn't send me an email to confirm the form was submitted. Some discussion on Reddit suggest the form may not actually do anything, but I guess we'll see.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Happy to report that Victron reached out to resolve the issue without cost to us. Will update after all that coordination is done.

 

[MillAlien]

Whaat? Since this is Beginners Corner, here’s a noob question - Aren’t inverters in 120v single split phase configuration connected in parallel? It seems like the use-case here is 230v 3-phase, so perhaps the difference … ? 120v split-phase parallel configuration of MultiPlus II is common in the wild and vendor supported.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Happy to report that Victron reached out to resolve the issue without cost to us. Will update after all that coordination is done.

This is nice to hear, and tips the scale towards Victron for myself.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

This is nice to hear, and tips the scale towards Victron for myself.

Choose your dealer wisely. There is Victron the company, then there are the Victron dealers.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Choose your dealer wisely. There is Victron the company, then there are the Victron dealers.

Agreed. I think the op should post the dealer. (Unless I missed it).

 

[dcg9381]

This definitely would have bit me too. Glad Victron is taking care of it.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Agreed. I think the op should post the dealer. (Unless I missed it).

We will see how this shakes out. If Victron makes good on their offer to resolve this without cost to us, that indicates that they will take whatever corrective action will be required for the dealer through increased training or whatever, and so it's reasonable to expect the issue will be less likely to occur in the future. They moved quickly to update their manual and they're vested in quality products and improvement it seems to me.

If Victron doesn't make good (which seems unlikely to me as I have had only good experiences with the company despite this particular dealer), then that would reward the dealer behavior and not disincentivize it and so in that case I'd share the specifics so others could avoid our experience. We'll see how it turns out, but at this point I expect Victron will take care of it. They're on the other side of the globe and I only brought this to their attention yesterday and they've acted quickly.

 

[Nan_wpg]

We will see how this shakes out. If Victron makes good on their offer to resolve this without cost to us, that indicates that they will take whatever corrective action will be required for the dealer through increased training or whatever, and so it's reasonable to expect the issue will be less likely to occur in the future. They moved quickly to update their manual and they're vested in quality products and improvement it seems to me.

If Victron doesn't make good (which seems unlikely to me as I have had only good experiences with the company despite this particular dealer), then that would reward the dealer behavior and not disincentivize it and so in that case I'd share the specifics so others could avoid our experience. We'll see how it turns out, but at this point I expect Victron will take care of it. They're on the other side of the globe and I only brought this to their attention yesterday and they've acted quickly.

keep us posted. Sounds like it’s not going to be an issue.

in my opinion it’s gone from “the customer is always right” to “the customer is lucky to have us”.

I understand margins, and markups, and a cost to doing business. But support is (or was) built into to that. Many companies simply drop ship and warehouse everything.

if I’m not getting any support then just give me the ability to order direct from the company.

 

[Bluedog225]

Props to victron.

 

[rodrick]

Being in the pacific northwest I would like to know which dealer to avoid so I hope he posts the info

 

[rodrick]

Choose your dealer wisely. There is Victron the company, then there are the Victron dealers.

It looks like you did everything to resolve the problem with the dealer but no help from the dealer he should’ve contacted victron himself and got a resolution, I’ve heard some dealers won’t help unless you bought it from them so the rv people are screwed if a problem arises while traveling

it would be nice if you would give us a heads up on the dealer

 

[AlaskanNoob]

It looks like you did everything to resolve the problem with the dealer but no help from the dealer he should’ve contacted victron himself and got a resolution, I’ve heard some dealers won’t help unless you bought it from them so the rv people are screwed if a problem arises while traveling

it would be nice if you would give us a heads up on the dealer

Victron fixed the issue. They said they'd ensure the issue was resolved at no cost to us, and the Regional Manager actually offered to provide us a new Quattro 48/15000 230V and pay for shipping it to us, if we'd pay for shipping one of the 48/8000s back to the dealer. We decided to keep one of the 48/8000 units as a backup and to use for a different project. So, in the end, Victron put us in a better position than we started. We can parallel the Quattro 48/15000 with up to five others which is more power than I imagine we'd ever need.

Victron exceeded our expectations so I'm sure they'll provide whatever training is required to the dealer to ensure this is less likely to happen in the future.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Spendy as hell, but worth it.