diy solar

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Off grid load management center.

Mattb4

Mattb4

Solar Wizard
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
4,096
Location
NW AR
One of the issues with an Off grid setup is knowing what your loads are so that you can most efficiently make use of your solar/inverter and battery resources. Load management in other words. There are some folks that are experimenting with automation now rather than having to manually switch things about, turn on or off, use more while PV production is high and less when low. But it is a bit cludgy at the moment

Reading an account on a recent breakthrough in Quantum computers it makes me wonder if a truly smart Off grid PV controller could be devised. This would monitor all loads in your home, incoming PV, State of charge and capacity of your batteries and turn on or off loads to maximize your solar and storage setup. One example would be heating water when excess solar is available but shutting it off if a higher precedent load turned on. Or running the dish washer through its cycle and not allowing another load to cycle on and overpower the inverter.

My thought is a Smart AIO. it would communicate with every load (WiFi?) and have ability to change operation based on all of it and also allowing user override when necessary.

Scenario: I go to use the Microwave to heat up a cup of coffee. The smart AIO detects that this would overload the system based on too many other items running so it tells the MW not to start until another item switches off.
"Turn on the MW Hal",
"I can't do that."

At any rate Quantum computers are going to change things I bet.
 
My manual load management center had a near failure this morning. I was heating water in the microwave for some instant oatmeal (apple cinnamon). Without thinking I went and ran some water to rinse out a bowl. My water pump cycled on. This was something I try to avoid when running the MW since it is a pretty large surge for my 3kW AIO when the pump starts. Surprisingly my system pulled it and the MW finished its cycle without overload tripping stuff.

But it sure would have been good to have an automatic smart load manager instead of the present "dumb" one.
 
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That all sounds like fun but I would consider the other users: if you, the system's champion aren't available to manage and rebalance the system, who will?
Are your other family members willing and able to jump through the hoops to keep it working? What about visitors?
Are you planning on putting operating/warning labels on every device? Or will you follow everyone around the house and "nag" them?
Household operations should be intuitive or else you're creating a lot of management hassles for yourself.
 
My wife and I are preparing to go off grid very soon, so we have given this a lot of thought. For me personally I want less automation. I see all the issues here with AIO and firmware/software challenges and don't wish to get tangled into that world. Computers can be useful, but I personally find them annoying at best.
Then one has to consider the additional energy use of each piece of the "smart puzzle". Will it make or break December, January, and February?
Will you need to add more panels and/ or batteries to accommodate?
 
45North said:
That all sounds like fun but I would consider the other users: ...
Click to expand...
In my case there is none. However a Quantum smart load management center would help in the case of multiple users. Simply enter how many, age, genders and let the controller work around them.
 
Sparks-n-Splinters said:
My wife and I are preparing to go off grid very soon, so we have given this a lot of thought. For me personally I want less automation. ...
Click to expand...
Yes the feeling of being Off grid is you should not have to trouble with all that modern technology and live simple. Problem comes in that low technology solutions tend to demand more from a user. For instance a regular shovel is a pain in the rear to dig holes with but my mini excavator is not a big deal to dig deeper and quicker. Though neither are automated I could see an automated digger, that simply did what was needed, as I sat outdoors on my porch would simplify life.

Oh for the simple automated life.
 
Mattb4 said:
In my case there is none. However a Quantum smart load management center would help in the case of multiple users. Simply enter how many, age, genders and let the controller work around them.
Click to expand...
Works great until it doesn't. Then you're dead in the water till someone figures out how to fix it
 
I think most of that could be done with just settings and an appropriately sized and spec'd system. Once the batteries are full, dump load kicks on, etc. Rather than implementing a complicated monitoring and control system, would it be easier, and probably cost less, to double the size of the inverter, so that running the microwave and water pump at the same time aren't an issue?
 
OM617YOTA said:
... would it be easier, and probably cost less, to double the size of the inverter, so that running the microwave and water pump at the same time aren't an issue?
Click to expand...
That would work until trying to run (inadvertently or otherwise) several more loads simultaneously exceeded the new inverter. Trying to supply a full Off grid household as if it was grid connected gets a mite expensive versus practicing load management.
 
Mattb4 said:
Yes the feeling of being Off grid is you should not have to trouble with all that modern technology and live simple. Problem comes in that low technology solutions tend to demand more from a user. For instance a regular shovel is a pain in the rear to dig holes with but my mini excavator is not a big deal to dig deeper and quicker. Though neither are automated I could see an automated digger, that simply did what was needed, as I sat outdoors on my porch would simplify life.

Oh for the simple automated life.
Click to expand...
I envision a simple system with few moving parts that just works. Our consumption is far lower than the "norm". Neither of us use the microwave or A/C in our current home, so it will really simplify the system required to meet our needs. the only 240v load we currently use is a clothes dryer simply because here line drying is not allowed.
 
I was reading some content a few months back with people integrating their SA and Home Assistant.
Apparently there is some functionality within home assistant that may permit some of this functionality?
It’s something I still want to dig into, I simply got sidetracked with more mundane issues
 
You don’t need some hypothetical quantum computer or hallucinating AI system to figure out how to manage loads, but it’s not as easy as you think. Enabling the power to a hot water heater doesn’t necessarily mean that it will start drawing power. Cutting the power to your microwave off because your well pump kicked on is only going to cause more problems and annoy other users. Honestly, the simplest solution to this is to have enough inverter power that your inverter doesn’t fall over when you’re using your microwave.

I mean, I’m generating two or three times as much power as I need in one day, but every time I try to think about, how do you utilize that excess power my brain goes down a twisty little maze of what if (all alike) and I just give up. Not that it can’t be done, but it’s not an easy problem with a simple solution.
 
wpns said:
You don’t need some hypothetical quantum computer or hallucinating AI system to figure out how to manage loads,...
Click to expand...
No the math of it all is not outside my limited computational capabilities. It is the fact that I get distracted, busy at something else, or absentminded. Something the computer solves. And with good programing it allows for better efficiencies to be made.

Lot of folks in the on grid world are automated their loading due to demand charges for peak hours. Even utilities are requiring remote shutoffs for particular home loads to preserve grid functionality.
 
What about just a smart breaker panel and home assistant to automate (along with smart outlets for individual devices, if needed). It sounds like you can do everything you are wanting without this "new" chip. You can monitor loads for each breaker along with shut breakers on/off when certain conditions are met. Any condition you can think of, really, where there's a sensor to detect (like SOC, Temp, upcoming weather, current weather, UV conditions, time of day, etc). Node Red for programming...
 
Mattb4 said:
That would work until trying to run (inadvertently or otherwise) several more loads simultaneously exceeded the new inverter. Trying to supply a full Off grid household as if it was grid connected gets a mite expensive versus practicing load management.
Click to expand...

Yes that's a different situation. Especially if someone has four teenage daughters and a wife who all want to run hair dryers and take showers at the same time.

Some adjustments would definitely have to be made, but I'd still try and arrange it so that most everything can be run at the same time if needed. I have a very modest system and can run everything it was spec'd to run at the same time on it. Wish I'd gone bigger just for additional starting capacity, although it hasn't been an issue. Sometimes the lights flicker when the well pump starts, even though it's a Grundfos variable speed.
 
Mattb4 said:
No the math of it all is not outside my limited computational capabilities. It is the fact that I get distracted, busy at something else, or absentminded. Something the computer solves. And with good programing it allows for better efficiencies to be made.

Lot of folks in the on grid world are automated their loading due to demand charges for peak hours. Even utilities are requiring remote shutoffs for particular home loads to preserve grid functionality.
Click to expand...
I had not thought of the smart home automation handling this as I don't think that way, but it makes sense. I laugh every time I see nearby networks, the neighbors stove and fridge are both on the list. LOL
 
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