Off topic, EV vehicle opinions…
- Thread starter Supervstech
- Start date
I with you on the nice low price and I'm pro leaf for cheap ev but one thing to remember 30 to 50 miles range is going to be 3/4 of that or worse with the ac running I bet. Thats using power even sitting still.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I agree with Will and some others. The Leaf battery has no cooling and some of them from warmer climates had serious battery degradation. I did purchase a Leaf pack from a junk yard and used those modules for my stationary pack for a couple of years even though it had only about 75% capacity left. Since it was out of the car when I purchased it I had no way of evaluating it by using the vehicle guessometer. I am also a Tesla Fanboy and think, from a risk management perspective the odds are better with a used Model 3. I consider myself lucky on that Leaf battery purchase and got my money's worth out of it including selling the modules.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
I kept looking, even zoomed in, but then my wife walked up so I had to close the window. Never did see any scooters.
Wife says there are two scooters just like the scooter I have. Still can't see it.
EastTexCowboy
Solar Wizard
JWLV
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A used Nissan Leaf is probably the cheapest EV you can get right now.
I bought a used 2012 Leaf w/ 11 bars remaining (out of 12) several years ago. The original owner said that the battery pack was replaced under warranty a couple of years prior to that. I've owned the 2012 Leaf for about 4 years and it now has 9 out of 12 bars remaining. They say that each bar is about 8% of capacity. I live in Las Vegas. The heat has not affected it much.
I've had nearly zero problems with the Leaf in all this time. Only things I've ever done was top off the coolant when I first got the car because it was a little bit low. And about 2 years ago a water pump went out, but I didn't fix it for over a year because that pump was used for driving in cold climate. There's a second pump that is used in warm climates. The first pump has something to do with heating up the antifreeze. I never fixed it until I was thinking about selling it/trading it in. So I bought the part off eBay and fixed it myself. It was a rather expensive part at $250 for a water pump. From what I've read in a Leaf forum, this pump failure is quite common and parts are kind of hard to come by. A Nissan dealer would charge $800+.
The big issue with range on the Leaf is that the estimate on the dash is wildly inaccurate. When I go to Costco on a full charge leaving home, the range guess-meter says around 65 miles. When I get to Costco, it says about 20 miles. The Costco I go to is 15 miles away. Here's the kicker. On the way home, that 20 miles guess-meter increases as I get closer to home. When I'm about 5 miles from home, the range guess-meter shows 25. When I do get home, it would be about 22 miles.
How you drive also makes a big difference. Being in Las Vegas, my AC is always on except for a couple of months during the winter. Avoiding freeways or going over 60 mph really helps in getting more range. For whatever reason the Leaf gets really bad mileage when you go fast. The miles per kw goes down to as low as 2 miles/kw. Driving slower or taking the streets, I average around 4.2 to 4.5 miles/kw.
If I were buying a used Leaf now, knowing what I know now from owning a Leaf for 4 years, I would not buy a Leaf with less than 9 bars on the capacity gauge. My Leaf currently has 9 bars remaining and I estimate that I can still drive it at least another 5 or 6 years before the range becomes so low that I would have to get another vehicle and use the Leaf as a golf car just to go to places nearby like the supermarket, drug store, etc.
In case you don't already know, the most important thing is the battery capacity gauge. I put a big red arrow pointing to it in the attached picture. Full capacity is 12 bars. I read somewhere that it is possible to fake that info on the dash by changing some data via the OBD port. But I don't know much about it.
Note: the picture is not of my car. I just grabbed a picture off Google just to illustrate where the battery capacity gauge is located. The bigger bar is the current charge meter. Just to give an example, it is normal to have the small bars at, say 6 bars (50% capacity) and the big bars at 12 bars (100%). That would mean the battery capacity has degraded to 50% and you charged it fully (100%) to that max capacity of 50%.
I bought a used 2012 Leaf w/ 11 bars remaining (out of 12) several years ago. The original owner said that the battery pack was replaced under warranty a couple of years prior to that. I've owned the 2012 Leaf for about 4 years and it now has 9 out of 12 bars remaining. They say that each bar is about 8% of capacity. I live in Las Vegas. The heat has not affected it much.
I've had nearly zero problems with the Leaf in all this time. Only things I've ever done was top off the coolant when I first got the car because it was a little bit low. And about 2 years ago a water pump went out, but I didn't fix it for over a year because that pump was used for driving in cold climate. There's a second pump that is used in warm climates. The first pump has something to do with heating up the antifreeze. I never fixed it until I was thinking about selling it/trading it in. So I bought the part off eBay and fixed it myself. It was a rather expensive part at $250 for a water pump. From what I've read in a Leaf forum, this pump failure is quite common and parts are kind of hard to come by. A Nissan dealer would charge $800+.
The big issue with range on the Leaf is that the estimate on the dash is wildly inaccurate. When I go to Costco on a full charge leaving home, the range guess-meter says around 65 miles. When I get to Costco, it says about 20 miles. The Costco I go to is 15 miles away. Here's the kicker. On the way home, that 20 miles guess-meter increases as I get closer to home. When I'm about 5 miles from home, the range guess-meter shows 25. When I do get home, it would be about 22 miles.
How you drive also makes a big difference. Being in Las Vegas, my AC is always on except for a couple of months during the winter. Avoiding freeways or going over 60 mph really helps in getting more range. For whatever reason the Leaf gets really bad mileage when you go fast. The miles per kw goes down to as low as 2 miles/kw. Driving slower or taking the streets, I average around 4.2 to 4.5 miles/kw.
If I were buying a used Leaf now, knowing what I know now from owning a Leaf for 4 years, I would not buy a Leaf with less than 9 bars on the capacity gauge. My Leaf currently has 9 bars remaining and I estimate that I can still drive it at least another 5 or 6 years before the range becomes so low that I would have to get another vehicle and use the Leaf as a golf car just to go to places nearby like the supermarket, drug store, etc.
In case you don't already know, the most important thing is the battery capacity gauge. I put a big red arrow pointing to it in the attached picture. Full capacity is 12 bars. I read somewhere that it is possible to fake that info on the dash by changing some data via the OBD port. But I don't know much about it.
Note: the picture is not of my car. I just grabbed a picture off Google just to illustrate where the battery capacity gauge is located. The bigger bar is the current charge meter. Just to give an example, it is normal to have the small bars at, say 6 bars (50% capacity) and the big bars at 12 bars (100%). That would mean the battery capacity has degraded to 50% and you charged it fully (100%) to that max capacity of 50%.
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yabert
Solar Enthusiast
The Leaf is really cheap, but you can also look at 2017-2018 Chevy Bolt in your area.
Maybe you will pay more, but you will clearly have a better range, battery, car for that money.
The Bolt water cooled battery will also age we better than an old Leaf battery.
Maybe you will pay more, but you will clearly have a better range, battery, car for that money.
The Bolt water cooled battery will also age we better than an old Leaf battery.
@Supervstech
Get leaf spy pro and a dongle if you haven't already , hook up to the system to get an accurate SOC soh @ individual cell voltage
Get leaf spy pro and a dongle if you haven't already , hook up to the system to get an accurate SOC soh @ individual cell voltage
Is the arrow pointing to the bars available?
I count 11, not 9...
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,045
Air conditioning?
Tell her, "Honey, I got you a convertible!'
en.wikipedia.org
Tell her, "Honey, I got you a convertible!'
Neighborhood Electric Vehicle - Wikipedia
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
I'm really hoping we get actual 'crate ready' parts to convert older vehicles to EVs without having to spend $50K. I read here and there that Ford was supposed to be interested in building this kind market for older F-150s (as an example) but when I google all I get is fluff.
Unless you drive a VW beetle, a drop in ev conversion seems difficult to get.
I also read about the Ford ev kits, but don't find anything on them.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
And the trouble with a vintage VW beetle van (for example) - https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars-for-sale/volkswagen-vans-for-sale - range from $22K to $64K - just insane for a low budget DIY conversion.
Plus the kits themselves are nothing to sneeze at such as - https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=1fdbcabcc54e02e1ba2d9ed32d9c20ea
Vigo
Solar Addict
As an ASE master tech with an L3 hybrid/ev cert, my opinion is its basically a pipe dream to get a conversion kit that doesnt cost 15k+ and at least a few thousand dollars in labor.
Air cooled VWs are of course the ideal cheap/easy swap candidates but also barely a car by modern standards. 3-wheeled ‘not a car’ motorcycles that arent a car because they dont have the 4th wheel, are the next easiest/cheapest but again they’re hardly an all-use kind of vehicle.
I think a used Leaf is a good starting point for a DIY project base. A semi-usable EV to build onto. For example, you can always just use totally unrelated batteries in the cargo area to trickle into the main pack as a range extender. But all of the possibilities, even the ones i think are cheaper than most people would expect, are still very expensive in the context of a $3500 car.
So, given the budget constraints i would recommend a used Prius. I drove my 07 to 277k, sold it to a relative, and it just crossed 400k. Id drive it cross-country right now if i had a good reason to.
For the record you can also
DIY an auxiliary pack into an old hybrid like that, drive it as a very hobbled (but cheap) EV, and get huge mpg gains even when driving on gas. So still a very good basis for projects. Plus you can use a prius as a 2-3kw generator with the right hardware, and building your equipment into a vehicle makes it real easy to take with you if your dwelling situation changes or you go on a long trip.
Air cooled VWs are of course the ideal cheap/easy swap candidates but also barely a car by modern standards. 3-wheeled ‘not a car’ motorcycles that arent a car because they dont have the 4th wheel, are the next easiest/cheapest but again they’re hardly an all-use kind of vehicle.
I think a used Leaf is a good starting point for a DIY project base. A semi-usable EV to build onto. For example, you can always just use totally unrelated batteries in the cargo area to trickle into the main pack as a range extender. But all of the possibilities, even the ones i think are cheaper than most people would expect, are still very expensive in the context of a $3500 car.
So, given the budget constraints i would recommend a used Prius. I drove my 07 to 277k, sold it to a relative, and it just crossed 400k. Id drive it cross-country right now if i had a good reason to.
For the record you can also
DIY an auxiliary pack into an old hybrid like that, drive it as a very hobbled (but cheap) EV, and get huge mpg gains even when driving on gas. So still a very good basis for projects. Plus you can use a prius as a 2-3kw generator with the right hardware, and building your equipment into a vehicle makes it real easy to take with you if your dwelling situation changes or you go on a long trip.
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I own a 22 Leaf Plus and we love it. I've put 20k miles on it in 18 months and charge at home with solar (thanks Will) 90% of the time. Practical and super easy for anyone to drive. Personally, I would spend a little bit more and get a 40kw Leaf (2016-2017) or a used Bolt that has had it's battery replaced. Early Leaf's are great cars but are going to need battery replacements at some point and the 2011-2012 models aren't as easy to upgrade to the 40kw battery as later models.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
$130K for unit and installation.
Lt.Dan
Solar Wizard
EV West is supposedly making an electric crate motor with motor mounts to bolt into an LS based frame. Kinda cool, but you need to figure out the other 80% of the parts/build lol
2TrevorJ
Bend the Joules
We also have a 22 Plus that we got for our college age daughter (60 kWh battery for those tuning in). 21k miles since Jan 2022. It's a fine car for around town or a 75 mile radius drive. Pretty awesome not needing to budget for my daughter's gas. No battery issues with the heat and lack of active cooling. The 20k dealer service battery report still showed no reportable degradation (we usually keep it 20-82% and never fast charge). Plenty of power so it's not annoying to drive (214 Hp vs 147 for the standard Leaf).
About the only negative is as much as EV's aren't road trippers the Leaf is a whole nother level of craptacular. Chademo slow...errr...fast charger connection, roughly 185 miles of range at highway speeds, and lack of active cooling means a horrible road trip experience.
We were totally going to buy another one for our younger son to get him through his college years but leather, Bose, and the federal tax credit aren't available anymore so that's changed the calculus. Don't really want a Tesla, a resistive heater, a used EV that has potentially been beat on, or something that costs $40k+.
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