Signature Solar Quality and Warranty Woes

[cirvaazny]

I can see both sides of the argument here.

I would have been fine replacing a damaged component and being on my way versus having to go through the trouble of de-wiring then removing the unit from service, finding packaging materials for it, then taking it to get shipped back to the seller. This would have been way more convenient and less troublesome for me. While I am at it, they could give me the source for the controller and their management software, and I could fix up a bunch of the bugs there too. In my instance, I have access to the tools needed to make these kinds of repairs - which is not the case for everyone that purchases one of these units. This is more of an exception than a rule.

However, this then brings into question, what was the point of the warranty coverage if it got to that point? I made my decision to purchase this specific appliance based on advertisement of the warranty coverage was included as part of bundling it with their EG4 brand products. If I fix this on my own, why would they continue to offer a warranty on the unit if they were not able to validate the quality of the fix? If something else pops up in the future, how can the company be sure that it was not due to a mistake during repair done by the end user?

Also, IMO, there is a big difference in being willing to fix something that breaks from normal wear and tear versus going through the trouble to fix something that has a defect or defects from the factory.

 

[ksmithaz1]

. . .

Also, IMO, there is a big difference in being willing to fix something that breaks from normal wear and tear versus going through the trouble to fix something that has a defect or defects from the factory.

Agree, (are you buying this round of beers?). I think part of it is the complexity of the install, and the nature of the warranty. Most warranties cover making the product work as advertised. If I buy a laptop, it's small and can be unplugged shipped fairly easily. If I bought it from Best Buy, then I can take it up to them, and the technician may run a diagnostic, replace the drive or a DIMM and give it back to you, even if it was brand new. It's just not that cut and dried. Further if you ordered it direct you might get a replacement drive or dimm.

We have a Synology all flash array, kept flaking out in wierd ways. We started running diagnostics, Turns out it was a bad SIMM. Could have sent it back. Didn't really want to, but they wanted us to narrow it down, they did not want to send 16 SIMM's, and we needed the unit even if it was not perfectly stable. Finally did a divide and conquer over several weekends and narrowed it down to 4, they finally agreed to send the 4. It took the problem over 24 hours to manifest under test.

Somebody keeps talking about tamper seals on EG4 equipment. My Chargeverter arrived with all three of the cable glands not even remotely tight. I unscrewed all 400 screws and tightened them. Should have put some silicon it it, but I didn't think about it, until I was putting the 399th screw back in. There were no tamper indicators. I also don't see any on my 18KPV/12KLV's. I didn't see any on the prior inverters I had, and the Victron transformer I had required you to remove the cover to wire it. I've rarely found tamper seals on this type of equipment, I'm surprised the 6500's have them.

 

[Kenny_]

On the contrary -- with any other company this would be a simple over the phone repair or a RMA -- BUT I am going to bet -- that although this sequel starts off slow -- it will end in a huge gunfight ... NOW don't get me wrong -- I am 100% with you on that he voided the warranty by taking off the front panel and probing around -- thats TOTALLY on him -- and maybe in fact while he was probing he somehow unscrewed 4 of the 5 bonding screws without remembering he did that -- BUT what will make this interesting is how SS will get 4 different owners/techs to all jump in and give him 12 different things to do and then #300 of us will jump in and say things that have nothing to do with anything -- and then at the end you guys will say that He voided the Warranty and for $XXX he can ship it back himself and get it repaired (which again - technically - is probably the right thing at this stage) -- and then he will get upset and contact his CC company and dispute it -- and then the movie credit begin to roll ...

What kills you guys -- is NOT having a single POC to handle these sorts of issues .... one person that will take ownership of the problem from beginning to end - and not pass it off to others over and over ...

if you call Midnite Solar - you have one guy that handles your issues -- beginning to end -- he may pass you to different techs -- BUT he remains your POC and he is the one that will stick with you during the RMA or the repair process ... same with Renogy ... and even EPSOLAR ... but with SS (and i do believe that all of you there are trying to do the best for this guy) but you guys will wind up giving him contradictory instructions and then blaming him for something (of course - again - he DID void the warranty) .... BUT THATS WHAT YOU GUYS ARE KNOWN FOR - excellent products but poor customer service ... or at least this is my own personal opinion ...

THIS!!!

 

[Kenny_]

Well one thing that I find completely RIDICULOUS is having a customer repair electrical equipment.

That's is by definition what the damn warranty is for. SS might want to look into on site repair/tech guys because what is going to happen is some unlucky buyer is going to stick a screw driver somewhere they shouldn't, after being asked by a tech to "work" on the product.

They don't make liability insurance that goes that high.....

...and This!

 

[Kenny_]

These sorts of support issues have definitely got me holding back on purchasing my higher end equipment from SS.

 

[G00SE]

And this is why I asked yesterday in the other thread about the 6kw luxpower if there would be upgrade programs for people who just bought known defective units such as the OP, that coincidentally are no longer being offered as new retail.
I’m sure people find my incessant bantering annoying, but whatever annoyance it is, is far less than what these countless customers endure

 

[Kenny_]

The unit was "sealed" when I had asked for an RMA after the failure. I did not want to create any vector for accusation of causing the failure and having an RMA denied so I did not go "poking around" on my own beforehand. I can understand that Signature Solar could be skeptical and that people do break things and then don't own up to it. So I wanted us both on equal playing fields.

Only after I kept getting asked for voltage readings, continuity tests, and to power it back up to take a video/audio and prove that it was not working did I open anything up. During this, I had informed and sent pictures to the tech that was assigned to me showing the troubleshooting steps I was taking with their feedback. I had asked just to ship the unit to them, but was told that I would need to take certain troubleshooting steps before an RMA would be approved, regardless of the mode of failure.

Their own blog post tells you to remove bonding screw(s) if they are present under certain conditions/configurations on EG4 inverters. This would require you to remove the cover: "...you will likely need to remove the bonding screw inside."

There are QC issues at play here. With my first inverter having blocked fans, and this one or both missing bonding screw(s). Checking for the cause of and fixing both of these problems requires taking off the cover. And these are problems that would most likely not be caused by hidden shipping damage/jostling, it's something that would have most likely occured during assembly, and should have been caught after assembly during testing of the inverters before packing for shipment.

On the plus side - Signature Solar sent me a prepaid label for my RMA, and I have sent the damaged inverter on its way back. So I have that progress so far, thank you for that Markus.

Guess this is how the keep the purchase prices competitive.....

 

[cirvaazny]

Several months have passed since I wrote about this. Thanks to everyone that helped out. I just wanted to update on what has been going on the last few months.

Signature Solar did end up sending me a replacement inverter for the one that got toasty. When I got it, the sticker on it had a date before the cut-off listed on the blog post about grounding issues with the unit. I opened the unit and found that the ground bonding screws were missing in this unit. I ended up having to open a service request with Signature Solar and they sent me some screws to put into the new unit. I never put this unit into service, it's obvious it wasn't tested before it was shipped since it had the same problem I had with the other two units. I pretty much lost what little faith I had left in this model at this point.

My other unit continued on broken, I could not get an RMA for this unit. It would randomly drop loads or reboot, flickered like crazy, and when it was running 'normally' it sounded like those movie scenes where they were turning on the electric chair minus the screaming. I delegated this unit to a concrete box just maintaining small loads off my PV array and keeping the batteries in good condition until I could figure out what I was going to do to replace them.

I finally ended up getting my setup working again somewhat by spending more money. I bought a new set of EG4 6000XP units and I have them now running in parallel so far without any problems other than configuration issues from the really badly translated manual. No crazy flickering, no randomly dropping loads.

Everything said and done, I am really sour on Signature Solar as a vendor. Warranty service seems to be really hit or miss, and it looks like if you get a lemon, where you really need the warranty coverage, you're on your own. Other smaller cheap to fix issues seem to be no problem though. I have still yet to see anything sent my way for my troubles as the tech told me would be done either.

Expensive lesson for sure, but I am now glad that everything seems to be working. A plus is those inverter units are no longer for sale, so they can never hurt anyone else, which is good because from my limited experience they really were garbage.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Several months have passed since I wrote about this. Thanks to everyone that helped out. I just wanted to update on what has been going on the last few months.

Signature Solar did end up sending me a replacement inverter for the one that got toasty. When I got it, the sticker on it had a date before the cut-off listed on the blog post about grounding issues with the unit. I opened the unit and found that the ground bonding screws were missing in this unit. I ended up having to open a service request with Signature Solar and they sent me some screws to put into the new unit. I never put this unit into service, it's obvious it wasn't tested before it was shipped since it had the same problem I had with the other two units. I pretty much lost what little faith I had left in this model at this point.

My other unit continued on broken, I could not get an RMA for this unit. It would randomly drop loads or reboot, flickered like crazy, and when it was running 'normally' it sounded like those movie scenes where they were turning on the electric chair minus the screaming. I delegated this unit to a concrete box just maintaining small loads off my PV array and keeping the batteries in good condition until I could figure out what I was going to do to replace them.

I finally ended up getting my setup working again somewhat by spending more money. I bought a new set of EG4 6000XP units and I have them now running in parallel so far without any problems other than configuration issues from the really badly translated manual. No crazy flickering, no randomly dropping loads.

Everything said and done, I am really sour on Signature Solar as a vendor. Warranty service seems to be really hit or miss, and it looks like if you get a lemon, where you really need the warranty coverage, you're on your own. Other smaller cheap to fix issues seem to be no problem though. I have still yet to see anything sent my way for my troubles as the tech told me would be done either.

Expensive lesson for sure, but I am now glad that everything seems to be working. A plus is those inverter units are no longer for sale, so they can never hurt anyone else, which is good because from my limited experience they really were garbage.

Glad to hear you are finally getting to enjoy the system, sucks you had to deal with so much to get there.
No crazy flickering
Is there flickering that isn't crazy?

 

[Quankl]

Wow is all I have to say on this topic.

 

[Quankl]

Several months have passed since I wrote about this. Thanks to everyone that helped out. I just wanted to update on what has been going on the last few months.

Signature Solar did end up sending me a replacement inverter for the one that got toasty. When I got it, the sticker on it had a date before the cut-off listed on the blog post about grounding issues with the unit. I opened the unit and found that the ground bonding screws were missing in this unit. I ended up having to open a service request with Signature Solar and they sent me some screws to put into the new unit. I never put this unit into service, it's obvious it wasn't tested before it was shipped since it had the same problem I had with the other two units. I pretty much lost what little faith I had left in this model at this point.

My other unit continued on broken, I could not get an RMA for this unit. It would randomly drop loads or reboot, flickered like crazy, and when it was running 'normally' it sounded like those movie scenes where they were turning on the electric chair minus the screaming. I delegated this unit to a concrete box just maintaining small loads off my PV array and keeping the batteries in good condition until I could figure out what I was going to do to replace them.

I finally ended up getting my setup working again somewhat by spending more money. I bought a new set of EG4 6000XP units and I have them now running in parallel so far without any problems other than configuration issues from the really badly translated manual. No crazy flickering, no randomly dropping loads.

Everything said and done, I am really sour on Signature Solar as a vendor. Warranty service seems to be really hit or miss, and it looks like if you get a lemon, where you really need the warranty coverage, you're on your own. Other smaller cheap to fix issues seem to be no problem though. I have still yet to see anything sent my way for my troubles as the tech told me would be done either.

Expensive lesson for sure, but I am now glad that everything seems to be working. A plus is those inverter units are no longer for sale, so they can never hurt anyone else, which is good because from my limited experience they really were garbage.

Unfortunately I have to chime in. Because of the main part where you said the refurbished units are doing the same issue. The solution is to open the unit. Tighten every nut you see. I can guarantee you the issue will disappear. Dropping loads, rebooting while on battery, probably works perfectly on PV or grid power.

Especially that DC bar which in yours is burnt. That was slack. The popping you heard was DC arcing.

Possibly one of the reasons they no longer sell it is for QC issues like these. And persons returned the units for this same issue. The units you also received don't necessarily show the dropped load/undervoltage or arcing in every condition. Which is why some of these end up going back out to customers as "tested" when warranty claims come up. Cus they work sometimes but the issue is always there until the internals are tightened.

Again their customer service seems decent to me. More than decent in my particular case. But the right call was to remove this from sale.

 

[cirvaazny]

Glad to hear you are finally getting to enjoy the system, sucks you had to deal with so much to get there.
No crazy flickering
Is there flickering that isn't crazy?

You can kind of get used to it if it is a certain frequency, like streetlights. But I think the module had seizure set to "Maximum", and unfortunately it was read only.

Probably would have worked really well during the Halloween season though.